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'[OT] New Stupid PIC Trick'
2000\04\04@120249 by rottosen

flavicon
face
I thought some of the PIC Listers might be interested in a recent
project I have completed. It has no "real" use other than being fun to
watch. I claim that it is art :-)  See details at
http://www.idcomm.com/personal/ottosen/
Look near the bottom of the page for a better description and picture.

Oh, it does not use a PIC although it could. I used a Scenix for the
ease of development. I can PDF some of the drawings if anyone is
interested.

-- Rich

2000\04\04@162410 by rottosen

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face
The base is clear acrylic ("Plexiglas"). It is commonly available as
window glazing at good hardware stores.

A note about working with acrylic. For years every time I used this
plastic I would cuss because it would melt when I used a saber saw to
cut it. This occurred at any blade speed. I used a very fine blade to
minimize the tooth marks in the cut.

WRONG! On this project I was having the same problem so I switched to
the coarsest toothed blade with the most set to the teeth. This is the
way to do it right. The the plastic does not melt and the tooth marks
are not a real problem since I sand the edge later anyway.

If you have deep pockets the plastic to get is polycorbonate ("Lexan").
It machines just like metal. For instance, when you drill it you get
curly cues similar to drilling metal. I have not found this at any
hardware stores.  :-((


-- Rich


Nathan Hendler wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\04\04@164130 by Dan Creagan

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face
Another trick is to use diluted liquid detergent (dishwashing soap) as a
lubricant for the saw blade. I use this when I do scroll saw cuts and it
works fine. Without it, all I get is a solid piece of plex because the gap
in the back of the blade fills in as the cut progresses.  With detergent, I
have to clean up the saw table a bit after the cut, but it isn't bad and
well worth the results.

Dan Creagan

PS: my new site is http://academic1.bellevue.edu/robots/sigrobots.html .



{Original Message removed}

2000\04\04@170010 by Eisermann, Phil [Ridg/CO]

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or, if you're cutting straight lines, a circular saw with
a plywood blade. At least on the 1/4" stuff.
Haven't tried it with thinner material.

Phil Eisermann
H:(440) 284-3787 (spam_OUTmazerTakeThisOuTspamix.netcom.com)
O:(440) 329-4680 (.....peisermaKILLspamspam@spam@ridgid.com)


> {Original Message removed}

2000\04\04@170325 by Wagner Lipnharski

picon face
The correct name is "Polycarbonate", also known as "Lexan".  It is used
to build bullet proof windows and protect place where possible vandalism
is present, like for example the front of any soft drink vending
machines front translucid material (picture inside).  You can find
polycarbonate mostly in signs shops and at companies who produce panels
and displays.  It is more expensive than cheap acrylic.

Here goes a doubt.  I tried to use plain acrylic to build some moving
parts on a machine I was building, and noticed that plain acrylic just
break easily, since it is very dry and rigid. As an experiment, I made a
screw thread directly into the acrylic, turned a screw into it, and
applied a single drop of PROLOK (Thread Lock) in few minutes the acrylic
part was in pieces. The PROLOK just use the empty space at the screw
thread, expanded and created such pression that just made the acrylic in
pieces (it works pretty well in metal), it just cracked all around,
centered at the hole.

Then I purchased a clear material named "PLEXIGLASS" (and here goes the
confusion with the name), it is not dry or very rigid, it bends easier
than plain acrylic. Screw holes at this material is super-dee-duper,
since if you make the hole a little bit smaller, when turning screws you
can hear it squeezing and yelling itself into the hole, it looks like
that the material will crack, but no, it stands pretty, pretty well, it
expands and holds the screw very tied.  I suspect the name PLEXIGLASS is
also the same of Lexan or Polycarbonate (this is the technical name).

Plexiglass (Lexan, whatever) works as a bullet proof material, since it
doesn't break or crack, instead it deform with the bullet, and as the
bullet pushes the material forward, the material just goes involving the
bullet, and as much it involves the bullet and the bullet pushes it
forward, more stronger it goes "bitting" the bullet, so increasing its
strenght, so the bullet just transfer all its energy as heat into the
lexan.  It is a high impact material, even that you can practically
drill a hole just using the drilling bit and your hand to turn it...

One common difficult about those products is how to glue it. Several
suggestions are done, in real no one did show to work nice and easy. I
use screws all around.

I hope someone could clarify the mess with the names.  Today I can
recognize one or another by its smell, dry acrylic is nasty, the good
one smells like plastic.


Richard Ottosen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\04\04@172827 by Dan Creagan

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I'm not sure Plex is the same as Lexan - I think the Plex I have is very
brittle and certainly not going to stop a bullet. However, it is better than
straight acrylic. The 'smell' part I found true - Plex definitely smells
better.

As far as bonding, I do what Walter does,  I use screws to anchor Plexiglas.
There is a solvent that will allow you to bond it to other pieces of plex.
Anyone know what it is?  I used to have it and darned if I didn't lose it (a
whole quart ... I think the dog drank it ;-)).  IIRC the solvent is a fairly
common one and pretty effective. I used to wipe it on the joints and get
very clear results (it would clean up imperfections in one swipe).  It is
very good to use, even if you are using drill holes. It will bond any cracks
in the material and stop them from styrating. Nice stuff.   So.... anybody
know what the heck I'm talking about?

Dan Creagan

PS: my new site is http://academic1.bellevue.edu/robots/sigrobots.html .



{Original Message removed}

2000\04\04@174047 by David E Arnold

picon face
Check out http://www.tapplastics.com/ they have everything you could dream
of to make plexi lexan acrylic you name it creations. And the Glue your looking
for too.

-Dave





Dan Creagan <dcreaganspamKILLspamSCHOLARS.BELLEVUE.EDU> on 04/04/2000 02:23:21 PM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>

To:   EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: David E Arnold/SYBASE)
Subject:  Re: [OT] New Stupid PIC Trick




I'm not sure Plex is the same as Lexan - I think the Plex I have is very
brittle and certainly not going to stop a bullet. However, it is better than
straight acrylic. The 'smell' part I found true - Plex definitely smells
better.

As far as bonding, I do what Walter does,  I use screws to anchor Plexiglas.
There is a solvent that will allow you to bond it to other pieces of plex.
Anyone know what it is?  I used to have it and darned if I didn't lose it (a
whole quart ... I think the dog drank it ;-)).  IIRC the solvent is a fairly
common one and pretty effective. I used to wipe it on the joints and get
very clear results (it would clean up imperfections in one swipe).  It is
very good to use, even if you are using drill holes. It will bond any cracks
in the material and stop them from styrating. Nice stuff.   So.... anybody
know what the heck I'm talking about?

Dan Creagan

PS: my new site is http://academic1.bellevue.edu/robots/sigrobots.html .



{Original Message removed}

2000\04\04@174934 by Severson, Rob

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face
> There is a solvent that will allow you to bond it to other
> pieces of plex.
> Anyone know what it is?

MEK? (methyl-ethyl-keytone) [geez did i get that right?]


{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2000\04\04@175346 by Preston Gabel

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Hi all,

Plexiglas is acrylic.  The clarity of acrylic is better than polycarbonate
but it is easier to scratch and tends to crack.

Lexan is GE's trade name for polycarbonate.  Polycarbonate is very tough but
has a "blue hue" in thicker sheets.

Regards,
Preston Gabel

{Original Message removed}

2000\04\04@175530 by Dale Botkin

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On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Wagner Lipnharski wrote:

> The correct name is "Polycarbonate", also known as "Lexan".  It is used

Lexan is a registered trade mark of General Electric for their
polycarbonate material.  Plexiglas is also their trademark for one
particular amorphous acrylic compound they manufacture.  Both terms are
often used generically, but they're both trademarks.  (I was surprised to
find they are both GE trademarks; I thought it would be DuPont.)

Plexiglas is more expensive than cheap acrylic, and much better to work
with.

Dale
---
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
               -- Isaac Asimov

2000\04\04@175727 by rottosen

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Wagner Lipnharski wrote:
>
> The correct name is "Polycarbonate", also known as "Lexan".  It is used
--- snip ---
Oops, I misspelled the name. It is, as you say, "polycarbonate".
Stupid spell checker :-)

Polycarbonate is very different than acrylic. It is much denser and
heavier. It machines much, much better.

My reference to "deep pockets" was meant to imply its very high price.
That goes with its more desirable qualities I'm afraid. I don't remember
how much the cost difference is but it is a lot.

-- Rich

2000\04\04@175933 by l.allen

picon face
> > There is a solvent that will allow you to bond it to other
> > pieces of plex.
> > Anyone know what it is?
>
> MEK? (methyl-ethyl-keytone) [geez did i get that right?]
>
>

Just a wee reminder
MEK is very dangerous to people, one place I worked the
chemical handler ended up in hospital with kidney
poisoning from being exposed to that stuff.
AFAIR its a serious carcinogen as well.

A great solvent though.. will reduce a speaker assembly
to its component parts in no time.

Another dangerous chemical(similar dangers to MEK)
that will dissolve epoxy, urethane etc is tri-chlor-methane.


_____________________________

Lance Allen
Technical Officer
Uni of Auckland
Psych Dept
New Zealand

http://www.psych.auckland.ac.nz

_____________________________

2000\04\04@175938 by Mark Newland

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face
Unless Lexan has some properites that I don't know about, I recomend that
everyone rub up against it many times before you grab your PIC's.  This should
make Microchip very happy that you keep buying their products after you blow
them up from static electricity.  I know that there are products that you can
put on the these types of materials to make them generate less static
electricity and Luxan may have these properties built in, Someone please correct
me if I'm wrong and I'll start useing it myself.  But for now I'll use my metal
enclosures or other materials that I know are static safe.  CMOS parts can
really start acting weird when damaged.  They can give you unpredictable
performance.

Richard Ottosen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2000\04\04@180351 by rottosen

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Alice Campbell wrote:
>
> well, i collect them and give them to my friends who spin wool,
> they make good spindles, too.

Good idea. I have a friend that is also a spinner and a weaver. I wonder
if she knows this trick?

>
> By the way, im interested in your barometric altimeter project.  can
> you give out any details of the circuit?  i'm having trouble visualizing
> what the comparators do.  is it just a couple of opamps configured
> as comparators?

Correct. See my notes as to the quirks involved in this.

 are they used as buffers to go into the + and - of
> the pic via an r-c adc?

I have put my notes on my Web page under the Stupid PIC tricks heading:
http://www.idcomm.com/personal/ottosen/

>  im working on a completely different thing
> that could use a circuit like this. (measuring tiny voltage off an led
> put in backwards as a sensor)
>

If you try it let me know if it works.

{Quote hidden}

-- Rich

2000\04\04@183504 by David Duley

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face
On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:23:21 -0500, you wrote:

>I'm not sure Plex is the same as Lexan - I think the Plex I have is very
>brittle and certainly not going to stop a bullet. However, it is better than
>straight acrylic. The 'smell' part I found true - Plex definitely smells
>better.
>
>As far as bonding, I do what Walter does,  I use screws to anchor Plexiglas.
>There is a solvent that will allow you to bond it to other pieces of plex.
>Anyone know what it is?  I used to have it and darned if I didn't lose it (a
>whole quart ... I think the dog drank it ;-)).  IIRC the solvent is a fairly
>common one and pretty effective. I used to wipe it on the joints and get
>very clear results (it would clean up imperfections in one swipe).  It is
>very good to use, even if you are using drill holes. It will bond any cracks
>in the material and stop them from styrating. Nice stuff.   So.... anybody
>know what the heck I'm talking about?
>
>Dan Creagan
>
>PS: my new site is http://academic1.bellevue.edu/robots/sigrobots.html .

Hi All!

Yes it is made by WELD-ON (IPS Corporation) #4
The stuff I have is Clear and water thin.  It is available with
fillers and such but the water thin stuff is best for gluing parts
together.  It has a nice capillary action that draws it into joints.
The chemical name is Methylene Chloride, Trichlorethylene and Methyl
Methacrylate Monomer.

It is available from and plastics supply.

I don't think your dog drank it! (Is the dog still with us?)  This
stuff is extreeeeeeemly volatile and will evaporate even from a
seemingly well tightened container.  You need to put that extra twist
onto the cap or it will be gone in a few weeks!

Best regards

Dave Duley

2000\04\04@191116 by Dan Creagan

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Aha!  MEK .. that was the culprit I was thinking about.  Just couldn't
remember it. Yes, I do remember it as very nasty. Probably illegal in
Barstow.  Now I got to find a supplier .....

And - of course - I was joking about the dog drinking it.

Thanks,
Dan Creagan

PS: my new site is http://academic1.bellevue.edu/robots/sigrobots.html .



{Original Message removed}

2000\04\04@192336 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
Here's a list of potential adhesives for acrylic/plexiglass, all recomended
by one person or another over on "another mailing list."  Some of the more
unusal looking ones (glacial acetic acid/acetone?!!!) are supposed to be
useful if you want the joint to be especially "clear", optically.

The faint of heart should note that MANY of these are "nasty" to breath
or get on your skin...

   For reference here is a summary of the substances recommended
   for gluing Plexiglas (tm) in no particular order.

   Methylene Chloride
   MEK
   Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO)
   Cynoacrylate adhesives
   Epoxy
   Glacial acetic acid/Acetone 50:50
   Weld-On #3,4 or 5 (from glass shops)
   Plex adhesive (from glass shops)
   Chloroform with 10% dissolved Plexiglas(tm)
   SC25 adhesive from Cadillac Plastics

BillW

2000\04\04@195339 by goflo

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face
Cut with table saw/coarse blade - Polish kerf with a torch - Pros
use
hydrogen (no carbon), but a lean propane mix works. Once you get the
hang of it, looks like glass, and flat enough to glue.
Usual caveats about playing with explosive gases, flammable plastics,
toxic fumes and glues ...

Regards, Jack

Richard Ottosen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2000\04\04@232600 by Ing. Marcelo Fornaso

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face
Wagner:
Long time ago I've used homemade "chloroform with dissolved plexiglas" to
build an enclosure for an underwater photo camera.
Very easy to use.
Whish you good luck

Marcelo Fornaso



{Original Message removed}

2000\04\05@035214 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
>MEK? (methyl-ethyl-keytone) [geez did i get that right?]

It looks pretty correct to me except for the spelling of the keytone part, but I
cannot remember the correct spelling either. My father used to use this to
reactivate contact cement.

the loop he had was camera repairs, and the "leather" covering that used to be
used to cover the outside was stuck on with contact cement (the light brown
rubbery type). He had to lift it to get at screws, and used MEK to reactivate
the cement afterwards.

2000\04\05@064510 by sbb.simpeltron

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

The trick in machining acrylic (and polycarbonate, PVC or aluminum) is that
milling tools must have a NEGATIVE cutting edge side rake. The rake angle of
a drill can be simply ground, saws are a little bit more difficult. Circular
saws are sold in a 'negative' version, but for a jigsaw you have to file it
yourself.
But, do not saw straight cuts, break them. Buy a special tool to cut a small
scratch, on both sides for thick plexi, and break it.








> If you have deep pockets the plastic to get is polycarbonate
> ("Lexan").
> It machines just like metal. For instance, when you drill it you get
> curly cues similar to drilling metal. I have not found this at any
> hardware stores.  :-((
>
>
snip

2000\04\05@102137 by James Paul

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face
Just leave out the 'y' IN "keytone"


On Wed, 05 April 2000, Alan B Pearce wrote:

{Quote hidden}

KILLspamjimKILLspamspamjpes.com

2000\04\05@110254 by Mark Hull

flavicon
face
>As far as bonding, I do what Walter does,  I use screws to anchor
Plexiglas.
>There is a solvent that will allow you to bond it to other pieces of
plex.Anyone
>know what it is?  I used to have it and darned if I didn't lose it (awhole
quart
>... I think the dog drank it ;-)).  IIRC the solvent is a fairlycommon one
and
>pretty effective. I used to wipe it on the joints and getvery clear results
(it
>would clean up imperfections in one swipe).  It isvery good to use, even if
you
>are using drill holes. It will bond any cracksin the material and stop them
from
>styrating. Nice stuff.   So.... anybodyknow what the heck I'm talking
about?

The solvent is Chloroform! (the stuff they use to kidnap pretty girls in
films ;-)
If you mix shavings of the acrylic into a bit of the chloroform, if forms a
gel type goo that is a remarkable adhesive for acrylic.

USE IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA, or suffer being kidnapped!!!!

Cheers
Mark

2000\04\05@114857 by David Duley

flavicon
face
On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 18:06:37 -0500, you wrote:

>Aha!  MEK .. that was the culprit I was thinking about.  Just couldn't
>remember it. Yes, I do remember it as very nasty. Probably illegal in
>Barstow.  Now I got to find a supplier .....
>
>And - of course - I was joking about the dog drinking it.
>
>Thanks,
>Dan Creagan


Ace Hardware sells it by the gallon!  We buy it all the time.

Dave Duley

2000\04\05@124702 by Andrew Kunz

flavicon
face
MEK is carcinogenic.  Get yourself an MSDS too (they are available online, if
you need one holler I have the Baker CD).

Andy









David Duley <RemoveMEdduleyTakeThisOuTspamDREITEK.COM> on 04/05/2000 11:36:12 AM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [OT] New Stupid PIC Trick








On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 18:06:37 -0500, you wrote:

>Aha!  MEK .. that was the culprit I was thinking about.  Just couldn't
>remember it. Yes, I do remember it as very nasty. Probably illegal in
>Barstow.  Now I got to find a supplier .....
>
>And - of course - I was joking about the dog drinking it.
>
>Thanks,
>Dan Creagan


Ace Hardware sells it by the gallon!  We buy it all the time.

Dave Duley

2000\04\05@143243 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
Apparently, chloroform is much more widely available in other countries
than it is in the united states.  MEK, Xylene, and more you can all get
at the local paint store, but I've never seen chloroform outside of a
laboratory chemical supplier...

BillW

2000\04\05@144937 by Andrew Kunz

flavicon
face
You can make it easily enough though.  As I recall from HS chem days, heating
carbon tet with iron (we used steel wool) in a still gave us the stuff.  Of
course, carbon tet is carcinogenic, so it isn't a good idea to play with it like
this.

Maybe that was something else.  We made enough neat stuff to kill ourselves
several times over.  Only once did we get caught, and that was because zinc and
sulfur make LOTS of smoke.

Andy









William Chops Westfield <RemoveMEbillwspamTakeThisOuTCISCO.COM> on 04/05/2000 02:29:34 PM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      EraseMEPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [OT] New Stupid PIC Trick








Apparently, chloroform is much more widely available in other countries
than it is in the united states.  MEK, Xylene, and more you can all get
at the local paint store, but I've never seen chloroform outside of a
laboratory chemical supplier...

BillW

2000\04\05@164650 by Alice Campbell

flavicon
face
Date sent:              Wed, 5 Apr 2000 14:47:05 -0400
Send reply to:          pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
From:                   Andrew Kunz <RemoveMEakunzspam_OUTspamKILLspamTDIPOWER.COM>
Subject:                Re: [OT] New Stupid PIC Trick
To:                     RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

> You can make it easily enough though.  As I recall from HS chem days, heating
> carbon tet with iron (we used steel wool) in a still gave us the stuff.  Of
> course, carbon tet is carcinogenic, so it isn't a good idea to play with it like
> this.
how about some ascii art?

        cl              h               h           h           h
       cl-c-cl   ->  cl-c-cl   ->  cl-c-h -->cl-c-h--> h-c- h
        cl              cl              cl           h           h

carbon       chloroform     methyl    methylene   methane
tetrachloride                   chloride   chloride

the process is snipping off a chlorine and snapping on a hydrogen.
dont try this at home, kids.

--mom

2000\04\05@173409 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   MEK is carcinogenic.  Get yourself an MSDS too (they are available
   online, if you need one holler I have the Baker CD).

Which MSDS are YOU looking at?  Here's the MEK content from a cornell
site (Fisher scientific's MSDS agrees that it's not carcinogenic.)

BillW


===========================================================================
                           Health Hazard Data
===========================================================================
Route Of Entry - Inhalation: YES
Route Of Entry - Skin: NO
Route Of Entry - Ingestion: YES
Health Haz Acute And Chronic: INHALE: RESPIRATORY/NOSE/THROAT IRRITATION,
SLIGHT IRRITATION/CONJUNCTIVITIS/BURNS. ASPIRATION OF LIQUID INTO LUNGS MAY
CAUSE CHEMICAL PNEUMONITIS/PULMONARY EDEMA/HEMORRHAGE/DEATH. CHRONIC: CNS
DEPRESSION, HEMORRHAGE IN VITAL ORGANS. (SEE SUPP)
Carcinogenicity - NTP: NO
Carcinogenicity - IARC: NO
Carcinogenicity - OSHA: NO
Explanation Carcinogenicity: NONE
Signs/Symptoms Of Overexp: IRRITATION, BURNS, DEFATTING, DRYING, HEADACHE,
DIZZINESS, DIZZINESS, NAUSEA, LOSS OF CONSCIOUSNESS, COMA & VOMITING
Med Cond Aggravated By Exp: HEADACHES, DIZZINESS, NAUSEA, EXISTING
DERMATITIS.
Emergency/First Aid Proc: EYES: WASH W/FRESH WATER FOR 15 MINS. SKIN: WASH
THOROUGHLY W/SOAP & WATER. INHALATION: REMOVE TO FRESH AIR. GIVE CPR IF
NECESSARY. INGESTION: DON'T INDUCE VOMITING. OBTAIN MEDICAL ATTENTION IN
ALL CASES.

2000\04\05@175526 by Alice Campbell

flavicon
face
well, the real problem is that it has an IDLH (immediate danger to
life and health) of 3000 ppm in air, according to NIOSH.  Look
under 2-butanone, its other name.

Really, breathe a lot of this stuff, and you wont live long enough to
worry about cancer.

Use with Adequate Ventilation.

--mom


{Quote hidden}

2000\04\05@175533 by paulb

flavicon
face
Alice Campbell wrote:

> how about some ascii art?

    cl            h             h         h        h
 cl-c-cl   ->  cl-c-cl   ->  cl-c-h -->cl-c-h--> h-c-h
    cl            cl            cl        h        h

 carbon       chloroform     methyl    methylene methane
tetrachloride                chloride   chloride

> dont try this at home, kids.

 You mean ASCII art in proportional font?  Definitely not!
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

2000\04\06@130607 by rottosen

flavicon
face
James Newton wrote:
>
> Is XPL0 not in the public domain? Can't you release the source and ask for
> others to help in polishing?


XPL0 is - mostly - in the public domain. There are many versions of the
compiler and interpreter. Not all of the versions have been released,
for varying reasons.

See:   http://www.idcomm.com/personal/lorenblaney/
for the released versions.

Releasing the Scenix versions is worth considering. It is not my
decision to make since I did not write the code. I am of course closely
involved.

>
> Selling (yet) another language is the impossible part. If its not C or a
> super set of C, forget it.

I knew you would say that. Yet I think other languages with much less of
a track record than XPL0 have been sold. The best example is the Basic
Stamp BASIC. Which seems to me to be barely BASIC.

The greedy capitalist in me also wants to believe there is a buck in it
somewhere :-)


-- Rich


>
> ---
> James Newton EraseMEjamesnewtonspamspamspamBeGonegeocities.com 1-619-652-0593
> http://techref.massmind.org NEW! FINALLY A REAL NAME!
> Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting)
>
> {Original Message removed}

2000\04\06@132851 by jamesnewton

face picon face
Ok, I missed BASIC (VB, .ASP, Stamp, etc...). Also ran: Pascal (Delphi).

C, BASIC, and Pascal are each, what, 30 years old? And they cover the range
from mid to high level languages. I don't think there is "room" for anything
else.

Prove me wrong: Assembler, C and BASIC account for 99% of all programs
written.

If that's not so, I'll add Pascal and try again. Maybe FORTH (Postscript)
and HTML if you want to count page description code as languages. Java
(JScript, JavaScript, etc...) if you want to count web pages.

Unless a language is targeted at a special purpose, forget selling it.

Now, having said that: Squeezing an interpreter for one of these into an
embedded controller is a different story. Scenix has just managed to
shoehorn a mini-Java (Jinni?) interpreter into an SX52, but there isn't much
room for anything else. Maybe XPL0 as a simple embedded control language...
but then you would have to compete with the Basic Stamp... and why not just
compile anyway? I've never seen the point in putting the token interpreter
into the chip. A code generator (from the higher level language) would allow
for programmer optimization and adding new functions afterwards.... much
better.

Bring on the comments... but, please, no language war? Huh? Please? I
haven't said that any one language was better than another...

---
James Newton RemoveMEjamesnewtonKILLspamspamgeocities.com 1-619-652-0593
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{Original Message removed}

2000\04\09@010626 by JT

flavicon
face
I think the solvent is Methlyene Chloride.  You can but this at any
store that specialized in plastics and Plexiglass.

Dan Creagan wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2000\04\09@135541 by Brian Kraut

picon face
Actually it is MEK(Methel Ethyl Keytone).  There are probably a bunch of different
solvents that will work though.

JT wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

2000\04\16@130445 by rottosen

flavicon
face
Using servo motors would be better but more complex than the stepper
motors that I used. The faster you can move the discs the more
impressive it looks and servo motors can move a lot faster than
steppers! This is how simple it is using stepper motors:
http://www.idcomm.com/personal/ottosen/kin_sch.PDF

No, the discs do not have to be in a preset position at startup. The
software keeps trying until it realizes that the disc did not move and
then moves the other disc instead. After the discs are able to move, the
software counts and measures the positions of the slots so that the
discs will continue to move without touching. See the program at:
http://www.idcomm.com/personal/ottosen/Kin.xpl

The stepper motors are low enough power that the discs are not damaged
while one is forced against the other. This may be a problem when using
servo motors. The stepper motors do not need any protection against
stalling but the servo motors probably will.

The discs are made of polycarbonate which is very tough. I cut the slots
with a nibbling tool without damaging most discs I've tried. AOL discs
work great but old Mouser Electronics discs crack badly. Even if the
discs are gradually damaged by the hitting each other, all the
replacements are free  :-)

I have now placed the mechanical drawing on my web page as well.
http://www.idcomm.com/personal/ottosen/kin_mech.pdf

p.s..  Very [OT]:  Do my "Eye Test" while you are checking out the
Kinetic Art info.


Gene Norris wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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