Post by thread:[OT] NO intention of giving M$ another cent... :o

Roman Black wrote: ... > The bad thing is that i don't own Win2000 and have > NO intention of giving M$ another cent... :o) ... Hi, Roman. I'm rather ignorant of capitalist rules, but aren't these very basics: if you "have NO intention of giving M$ another cent" - don't give, use other tools. Nobody will punish you for this. If you find MS tools useful for their price - buy them. Even here in the Ukraine I find them worth their price. Upgrading my home PC hardware costs me about US $150 per year (taking into account I usually install my used hardware into clients' computers). Upgrading my home PC software costs me (or my client :-) comparable money. If there were no MS Visual Studio I couldn't develop my software product by oneself. To develop the software product under non-MS environment I'd have a team with all the team's problems. Upgrading gives me more efficient and useful tools. (I didn't try XP). If I make some money with MS tools, why should I expect MS has to give them away for free? I don't know if they are criminals, but who is now an angel? Let him be the first to throw stones somewhere. Mike. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Nate Duehr wrote: > > If there were no MS Visual Studio I couldn't develop > > my software product by oneself. To develop the > > software product under non-MS environment I'd have > > a team with all the team's problems. > > You need a team to type "vi hello.c"? Wow... Probably not, but you might to figure out how to get out of VI! (if you've not used it before) -- Mitch -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 10:19 AM 1/3/03 -0600, you wrote: >On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Nate Duehr wrote: > > > > If there were no MS Visual Studio I couldn't develop > > > my software product by oneself. To develop the > > > software product under non-MS environment I'd have > > > a team with all the team's problems. > > > > You need a team to type "vi hello.c"? Wow... > >Probably not, but you might to figure out how to get out of VI! (if you've >not used it before) <ROTFL> And a year or so to become proficient in emacs if you don't like vi. There's always pico, but people will snicker behind your back (if you are lucky). Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" spam_OUTspeffTakeThisOuTinterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Mitchell D. Miller wrote: >On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Nate Duehr wrote: > > >>> If there were no MS Visual Studio I couldn't develop >>>my software product by oneself. To develop the >>>software product under non-MS environment I'd have >>>a team with all the team's problems. >>> >>> >>You need a team to type "vi hello.c"? Wow... >> >> > >Probably not, but you might to figure out how to get out of VI! (if you've >not used it before) > >-- Mitch > > I think that the open-source comunity really knows how to manage a project that has dozens of programmers spread all over the world. There are many different ways of managing a project, ranging from one to hundreds of programmers, one of them is CVS (besides of version control, of course): http://www.cvshome.org/ There are many other IDEs, including some open-source that have been developed both for Widows and for Linux. Not mentioning Kylix/Delphi! Take a look at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/widestudio/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/dev-cpp/ and exclusively for Linux: http://sourceforge.net/projects/anjuta/ Sorry if I didn't put someone's favorite ;-) Hope this helps Francisco -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Yes guys, I'm slightly stupid and I do love jokes, but, I hope, I'm not as stupid as (insert here your favorite unprintable words) to giggle at somebody's product worth him years of hard work. Mike. Spehro Pefhany wrote: {Quote hidden}> At 10:19 AM 1/3/03 -0600, you wrote: > >On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Nate Duehr wrote: > > > > > > If there were no MS Visual Studio I couldn't develop > > > > my software product by oneself. To develop the > > > > software product under non-MS environment I'd have > > > > a team with all the team's problems. > > > > > > You need a team to type "vi hello.c"? Wow... > > > >Probably not, but you might to figure out how to get out of VI! (if you've > >not used it before) > > <ROTFL> And a year or so to become proficient in emacs if you don't like > vi. There's always pico, but people will snicker behind your back (if > you are lucky). -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> Roman Black wrote: > > The bad thing is that i don't own Win2000 and have > > NO intention of giving M$ another cent... :o) Ive made a living from programming and general consulting/teaching around MS products. And Ive sold many MS products. I hate to abandon MS products since I have invested alot of time into them and generally liked them so far. With the recent license-system I first started to dislike MS. And with their plans for Palladium/DRM I am really afraid for my privacy if I continue to use MS operating system/products. (do a search for 'palladium' and u will get nightmares...) Btw, IBM's laptops are Palladium enabled already. It sometimes is hussled under the name 'secure pc'. I feel exactly like you Roman. MS wont get another cent from me, nor my clients, if there is any way I can avoid it. They have gone too far. Our goverment has came to a simular conclusion and are dropping MS products on a wide base. Generally MS has built a OS that spy on its users and its goal seem to be to take full control over the PC and let MS & Co decicde who runs and what is run on the machine that I own ! So the more Linux users we get, the less power MS will have to force these 'features' down our throught. I have never used Linux myself, but I will buy another PC and start to learn asap! Just to mention a few things about Win XP: - XP saves a list of the movies/music you have listend to. - XP saves your IE browsing history in a number of places that doesnt get erased when you tell it to. - XP goes to greate lenght to hide folders from you where it keeps tracks of information about you - XP's indexing service searches _all_ your files and saves any readable info - XP has a number of 'call home features' goto http://www.xp-antispy.de for a freeware program that disables most of that sh**. Among other things it gets rid of is MSM messenger which is close to impossible to uninstall. - XP has a new funtion that forces you to call MS for a new serial, if you change too much hardware in your computor at once. (it will also trigger the same funtion in Office XP, Visio XP etc - quite annoying when your in a hurry. Trust me, I know !) -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 08:55 PM 1/3/03 +0300, you wrote: > Yes guys, I'm slightly stupid and I do love jokes, but, >I hope, I'm not as stupid as (insert here your favorite >unprintable words) to giggle at somebody's product >worth him years of hard work. It's more snobbery than laughing at the product itself, which is a nice piece of work for what it is (a compact very limited text-mode editor). Attitudes reported as observed in Linux user group meetings. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" .....speffKILLspam@spam@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Mike Singer wrote: *> If there were no MS Visual Studio I couldn't develop *>my software product by oneself. To develop the *>software product under non-MS environment I'd have *>a team with all the team's problems. I do not agree. There are alternatives even on Windows. Look at the Inprise/Borland products. They introduced the 'visual builder' approach a long time ago. Worse for you, there are equivalent versions of their builders that run on Unices. The last big argument in favor of M$-only died imho when Sun introduced OpenOffice/StarOffice. All the other essential applications have had multi-platform equivalents for a long time now (some for 30 years or so - they are history that is being 'reinvented' regularly by the clever marketing people at that certain software firm). Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Peter L. Peres wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Mike Singer wrote: > > *> If there were no MS Visual Studio I couldn't develop > *>my software product by oneself. To develop the > *>software product under non-MS environment I'd have > *>a team with all the team's problems. > > I do not agree. There are alternatives even on Windows. > Look at the Inprise/Borland products. They introduced > the 'visual builder' approach a long time ago. Worse for > you, there are equivalent versions of their builders that > run on Unices. Yes, alternatives do exist. But the task was to develop as quickly as possible working software product (6 to 12 months for the first limited version). "Visual" features were not the only things to be considered. - Data handling: MS Access to create database, MS ADO to process data. - User output forms: MS Excel to create a set of templates with rather advanced macros to flexibly solve output tasks. - MS Automation to enable launching Excel workbooks and its macros from within my application. - "Callbacks" mechanism to enable interaction between ActiveX standalone .exe modules of my app. (I chose not to use DLLs for some reasons). Perhaps Delphi was better, I don't know now. In fact I lost one client this summer, because he was told that Delphi was the only real instrument, not VB. Mike. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Spehro Pefhany wrote: > At 08:55 PM 1/3/03 +0300, you wrote: > >> Yes guys, I'm slightly stupid and I do love jokes, but, >> I hope, I'm not as stupid as (insert here your favorite >> unprintable words) to giggle at somebody's product >> worth him years of hard work. > > > It's more snobbery than laughing at the product itself, which is a nice > piece of work for what it is (a compact very limited text-mode editor). Actually you may find that the snobbery towards pico is not directed at the editor so much as the University of Washington's "not quite really free but we'll let everyone slide and they'll hope we don't sue them later" licensing agreement on the software. People have politely requested they change to one of the more common licenses for years, and they continue to refuse... their own form of snobbery, I suppose. A number of the Linux Distributions have not asked (or been granted) permission to redistribute "modified binary files" while the license specifically states that's not acceptable to UW. More strict distributions do not redistribute pico (or pine, the mail client it was created for) in anything other than source format with patches that can be built with a compiler into a working copy that matches their distribution's desires for file location, etc. The pico/pine "non-free" saga has popped up every year for the last five or six years on the Debian Linux mailing lists... Debian is one of the stricter distributions as regards to meeting licensing requirements for Free Software. Nate -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics