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'[OT] Morse speed'
2007\03\16@115543 by Dennis Crawley

picon face
Hi all,

Does anyone know a practical method to calculate how many words per second
is an actual transmission?
In 70's, an old radio ham, taught me one sending "PARIS", but I don't
remember how many times or for how long PARIS should be send it.
I'm making a light(LED) Morse code generator for an scaled WWII warship...
by the way, at what speed they code in 40's?



Thanks,
Dennis.


2007\03\16@120905 by Dave Wheeler

flavicon
face
Hi Dennis,

I take it that you mean Words Per Minute :-) :-)

PARIS is 'typical' word so sending it 12 times a minute (plus inter word
spaces) can be taken as having a speed of 12WPM

In the UK, the 'old' amateur radio exam was at 12WPM (which I was
pleased to pass !!) but most Navy operators tend to 'rattle' at between
25 and 30 WPM

Good Luck

Dave


Dennis Crawley wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\03\16@121520 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Does anyone know a practical method to calculate how many
>words per second is an actual transmission?

IIRC the speed is calculated by the total time to send a piece of "standard
text" that is of reasonable length and contains a wide mix of letters, to
allow for the fact that some letters contain dot combinations that are a lot
quicker to send than letters that have dash combinations that make them
slower to send.

I have heard of an effect whereby sending lots of words with short dot/dash
sequences gives an effective wpm speed up compared to the standard speed.

I don't know what text is normally used to calculate the speed, but an ARRL
manual may help with determining that, or one of the Hams on here may have a
pointer to a URL for it.

2007\03\16@122215 by David VanHorn

picon face
On 3/16/07, Dennis Crawley <spam_OUTdennis.crawleyTakeThisOuTspamusa.net> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Does anyone know a practical method to calculate how many words per second
> is an actual transmission?
> In 70's, an old radio ham, taught me one sending "PARIS", but I don't
> remember how many times or for how long PARIS should be send it.
> I'm making a light(LED) Morse code generator for an scaled WWII warship...
> by the way, at what speed they code in 40's?


Paris is the standard word, so if you can send PARIS five times in a minute,
with proper inter-word spacing, then that's 5 WPM

Code speed for real pros was and is up 40+, but that's too fast for a light.

http://www.ac6v.com/morseaids.htm

2007\03\16@122429 by Thomas C. Sefranek

face picon face
-----Original Message-----
From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu [piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu] On Behalf Of
Dennis Crawley
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:55 AM
To: Microchip PIC microcontroller discussion list.
Subject: [OT] Morse speed

Hi all,

Does anyone know a practical method to calculate how many words per second
is an actual transmission?
In 70's, an old radio ham, taught me one sending "PARIS", but I don't
remember how many times or for how long PARIS should be send it.
I'm making a light(LED) Morse code generator for an scaled WWII warship...
by the way, at what speed they code in 40's?



Thanks,
Dennis.

First: Words per MINUTE, no human can send WPS.
(2 W/S = 120 Words per minute, far too fast for this old ham.
I suppose you could do inverse math and make 15 W/M into .25 W/S...


P = ._ _. A total of 14 dit spaces, (3 ending dit spaces)
A = . _ 8 spaces
R = . _ . 10 spaces
I = . . 6 spaces
S = . . . 8 spaces (Baud)
For a total of 46 and a word space of 9 gets you to 55 baud/word.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 *
 |  __O    Thomas C. Sefranek  .....WA1RHPKILLspamspam.....ARRL.NET
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 (*)/ (*)  Bicycle mobile on 145.41MHz PL74.4

ARRL Instructor, Technical Specialist, VE Contact.
hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/Inventory.html
http://www.harvardrepeater.org

2007\03\16@122831 by David VanHorn

picon face
By the way, a cute way to encode morse:

Use 0 to encode dot, 1 for dash.
left shift into carry, do the dot or dash, do the inter-element spacing,
THEN examine the byte.
When the byte, AFTER shifting is zero, then you're done.

E = * = 00000000b
T = - = 10000000b
A = *- = 01000000b  and so on.

2007\03\16@123021 by David VanHorn

picon face
www.kent-engineers.com/codespeed.htm

  The word PARIS is the standard for determing CW code speed. Each dit is
one element, each dah is three elements, intra-character spacing is one
element, inter-character spacing is three elements and inter-word spacing is
seven elements. The word PARIS is exactly 50 elements.
Note that after each dit/dah of the letter P -- one element spacing is used
except the last one. (Intra-Character).
After the last dit of P is sent, 3 elements are added (Inter-Character).
After the word PARIS - 7 elements are used.
Thus:
P = di da da di = 1 1 3 1 3 1 1 (3) = 14 elements
A = di da = 1 1 3 (3) = 8 elements
R = di da di = 1 1 3 1 1 (3) = 10 elements
I = di di = 1 1 1 (3) = 6 elements
S = di di di = 1 1 1 1 1 [7] = 12 elements
Total = 50 elements
() = intercharacter
[] = interword

If you send PARIS 5 times in a minute (5WPM) you have sent 250 elements
(using correct spacing). 250 elements into 60 seconds per minute = 240
milliseconds per element.

13 words-per-minute is one element every 92.31 milliseconds

2007\03\16@123538 by Dennis Crawley

picon face
On Friday, March 16, 2007 1:09 PM [GMT-3=CET],
Dave Wheeler  wrote:

> Hi Dennis,
>
> I take it that you mean Words Per Minute :-) :-)
>
> PARIS is 'typical' word so sending it 12 times a minute (plus inter word
> spaces) can be taken as having a speed of 12WPM
>
> In the UK, the 'old' amateur radio exam was at 12WPM (which I was
> pleased to pass !!) but most Navy operators tend to 'rattle' at between
> 25 and 30 WPM
>
> Good Luck
>
> Dave

Yes, yes,... :)), that was what I meant!
Thank you very much. I hope not to overcharge the "nostalgia varible" in
anyone :).

bye,
Dennis Crawley



2007\03\16@124156 by Harold Hallikainen

face
flavicon
face

> By the way, a cute way to encode morse:
>
> Use 0 to encode dot, 1 for dash.
> left shift into carry, do the dot or dash, do the inter-element spacing,
> THEN examine the byte.
> When the byte, AFTER shifting is zero, then you're done.
>
> E = * = 00000000b
> T = - = 10000000b
> A = *- = 01000000b  and so on.


How does this work for the letter I or H (all dits)?

I encoded Morse in a similar way, but allocated the 5msb for dits and dahs
and the 3 lsb to tell how many of the msb to use. I could handle any
character with up to 5 dits and dahs (which covered the alphabet and
numbers, which is what I needed to do a Morse code identification). This
was done maybe 30 years ago on an MC6802.

Harold
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2007\03\16@124847 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Mar 16, 2007, at 9:28 AM, David VanHorn wrote:

> Use 0 to encode dot, 1 for dash.
> left shift into carry, do the dot or dash, do the inter-element
> spacing,
> THEN examine the byte.
> When the byte, AFTER shifting is zero, then you're done.
>
How do letters ending in multiple dots work?  B, D, H, I, L, S, 5, etc?

BillW

2007\03\16@125655 by Dennis Crawley

picon face
On Friday, March 16, 2007 1:30 PM [GMT-3=CET],
David VanHorn  wrote:

> http://www.kent-engineers.com/codespeed.htm
>
>    The word PARIS is the standard for determing CW code speed. Each dit is
> one element, each dah is three elements, intra-character spacing is one
> element, inter-character spacing is three elements and inter-word spacing
is
> seven elements. The word PARIS is exactly 50 elements.
> Note that after each dit/dah of the letter P -- one element spacing is
used
{Quote hidden}

Excelent, David!, good tip!
Before I sent the e-mail, I did similar calculation taking the time it tooks
me to send PARIS, I just forgot the intra elements.

Thank for the "speed" answering this mail gentlemen:
Alan B. Pearce, Thomas C. Sefranek, Dave Wheeler




2007\03\16@130358 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
Long long time ago when my Apple II a less powerful CPU than a PIC nowaday
:-) so I wrote a Morse decoder that was independent of the speed. I used to
store the ABC in the same fashion, so the trick was to store the length of
the ti-ta's (bits) and then followed the 0/1s. But maybe there could be a
better way to do it, let's say there is a start bit, and the rest of the
bits are the valid bits, like:

00000101 is for A (.-)

So your code goes through bits until start bit and then the rest is easy.

Tamas


On 3/16/07, William Chops Westfield <EraseMEwestfwspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmac.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\03\16@130407 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
>
> How do letters ending in multiple dots work?  B, D, H, I, L, S, 5, etc?


http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/students/a/bamyote/

A bit of googling found this, which uses a start bit, then the same
sequence.
I don't remember having a start bit though.

2007\03\16@130718 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
>
> How does this work for the letter I or H (all dits)?


Phoo.. You're right, I didn't remember that correctly.
I know I've done it in the past, in a way that the result after shift being
all 0 was the end.


I encoded Morse in a similar way, but allocated the 5msb for dits and dahs
> and the 3 lsb to tell how many of the msb to use. I could handle any
> character with up to 5 dits and dahs (which covered the alphabet and
> numbers, which is what I needed to do a Morse code identification). This
> was done maybe 30 years ago on an MC6802.
>

2007\03\16@130948 by John, N5DWI

picon face
part 0 44 bytes
his is a multi-part message in MIME format.
part 1 113 bytes content-type:multipart/related; (decoded base64)

NƦ[bgs0Gf 2007\03\16@132032 by John, N5DWI
picon face
Thomas C. Sefranek wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Almost.  But not quite.

The 'S' count of 8 spaces already contains the 3 ending dit spaces.
and the word space should be a 7 count, not a 9 count.  Therefore,
the word space would include the 3 letter ending spaces,  so the
correct additional count after the letter's 8 count would be 4.
i.e., 7 - 3 = 4.

So recalculating, 14 + 8 + 10 + 6 + 8 + 4  = 50.
To determine WPM, count the dits per minute and divide by 50.

Also, there are many hams who can receive by ear at a speed
greater than 150 WPM!!! See  <http://www.rufzxp.net/>

John Westerlage, @spam@N5DWIKILLspamspamARRL.NET
Amateur Radio Operator: N5DWI
Pedestrian Mobile on 7030 kc (with Rockmite)
Exclusively Morse (both Continental & American) since 1956
Morse Instructor for almost that long

2007\03\16@135100 by Harold Hallikainen

face
flavicon
face

>>
>>
>> How do letters ending in multiple dots work?  B, D, H, I, L, S, 5, etc?
>
>
> http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/students/a/bamyote/
>
> A bit of googling found this, which uses a start bit, then the same
> sequence.
> I don't remember having a start bit though.
>

The start bit idea is clever! It allows a character to have up to 7 dits
or dahs. You still have to count the bits as they go out (or are thrown
out), though since an all dit character would go to zero as soon as you
throw out the start bit.

Harold


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2007\03\16@140736 by enkitec

picon face

       I remember doing the same on a ZX-81 clone.
       There was a noise filter embedded in the decoding software.
       The result was amazing! Excelent decoding, even with noise.

       Good times those!

       Mark Jordan - PY3SS


On 16 Mar 2007 at 17:03, Tamas Rudnai wrote:

> Long long time ago when my Apple II a less powerful CPU than a PIC nowaday
> :-) so I wrote a Morse decoder that was independent of the speed. I used to
> store the ABC in the same fashion, so the trick was to store the length of
> the ti-ta's (bits) and then followed the 0/1s.

2007\03\16@141200 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> The start bit idea is clever! It allows a character to have
> up to 7 dits
> or dahs. You still have to count the bits as they go out (or
> are thrown
> out), though since an all dit character would go to zero as
> soon as you
> throw out the start bit.

Wouldn't a stop bit be easier? Shift, if result in register is 0 you are
done, else you transmit what is in the carry and shift again.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\03\16@142726 by Harold Hallikainen

face
flavicon
face

>> The start bit idea is clever! It allows a character to have
>> up to 7 dits
>> or dahs. You still have to count the bits as they go out (or
>> are thrown
>> out), though since an all dit character would go to zero as
>> soon as you
>> throw out the start bit.
>
> Wouldn't a stop bit be easier? Shift, if result in register is 0 you are
> done, else you transmit what is in the carry and shift again.
>
> Wouter van Ooijen


But what would the start bit be? How do you distinguish it from a data
bit? The start bit is clever since it's the first 1 after a string of 0s.
You just always throw out the leading 1, then interpret what's left.

Harold

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2007\03\16@143310 by James Newton, Host
face picon face
> technology.niagarac.on.ca/students/a/bamyote/
>
> A bit of googling found this, which uses a start bit, then
> the same sequence.
> I don't remember having a start bit though.

My first thought is that it could be done much more efficiently with a
_stop_ bit instead of a start bit. All that means is that you check for
byte==0 _before_ transmitting a (unwanted) trailing dash.

A 0110 0000
B 1000 1000

O 1111 0000

S 0001 0000

5 0000 0100

$ 0001 0011

Seems to work ok...

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2007\03\16@143415 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> Wouldn't a stop bit be easier? Shift, if result in register
> is 0 you are done, else you transmit what is in the carry and
> shift again.
>
> Wouter van Ooijen


Hah! You win. :)

---
James.


2007\03\16@144350 by Harold Hallikainen

face
flavicon
face

{Quote hidden}

OK, I see how that could work. Clever! Always add a trailing 1 to a
character. If, after shifting left, the result is zero, you're done (just
shifted the stop bit into the carry).

Harold


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2007\03\16@150409 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
>
> OK, I see how that could work. Clever! Always add a trailing 1 to a
> character. If, after shifting left, the result is zero, you're done (just
> shifted the stop bit into the carry).


That may be the method I used.. It's been a while.
I'm sure that byte = 0 was the end of the sequence.

2007\03\16@160131 by Dennis Crawley

picon face
On Friday, March 16, 2007 3:11 PM [GMT-3=CET],
wouter van ooijen  wrote:

>> The start bit idea is clever! It allows a character to have
>> up to 7 dits
>> or dahs. You still have to count the bits as they go out (or
>> are thrown
>> out), though since an all dit character would go to zero as
>> soon as you
>> throw out the start bit.
>
> Wouldn't a stop bit be easier? Shift, if result in register is 0 you are
> done, else you transmit what is in the carry and shift again.
>
> Wouter van Ooijen

Nice Wouter!
It might be necessary to clean up the carry flag before shifting, isn't it?
Also is better to use "1" for dots than for dashes. Doing so, you can send
the error sign.

     bsf     STATUS,RP0
     movlw   B'11111111' ; Error sign
     movwf   BytesRx

mCODE
     BCF     STATUS,C ;do not shift "ones" now
     movlw   0
     RLF     BytesRx,F
     XORWF   BytesRx,W
     BTFSC   STATUS,Z
     GOTO    end_of_char
     btfsc   STATUS,C
     goto    DASH
DOT                     ; any output routine e.g.
     bsf     PORTB,7
     ;(delay intra-elem + 1 element)
     bcf     PORTB,7;
     GOTO    mCODE
DASH  NOP
     bsf     PORTB,7
     ;(delay intra-elem + 3 element)
     bcf     PORTB,7;
     GOTO    mCODE
end_of_char
     ;(end of char delay inter-char-elem + 3 element ???)


Dennis.



2007\03\16@170600 by Thomas C. Sefranek

face picon face
I don't doubt you are right, 50 sounds familiar...

I DO doubt the claims to 150 W/M, the test is just a computer connected to
another computer.  Heck, even the famous Hashi Nose only copied 55-60 W/M.
(I actually worked him once...)

Tom

 *
 |  __O    Thomas C. Sefranek  RemoveMEWA1RHPTakeThisOuTspamARRL.NET
 |_-\<,_   Amateur Radio Operator: WA1RHP
 (*)/ (*)  Bicycle mobile on 145.41MHz PL74.4

ARRL Instructor, Technical Specialist, VE Contact.
hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/Inventory.html
http://www.harvardrepeater.org

{Original Message removed}

2007\03\16@170608 by Harold Hallikainen

face
flavicon
face

{Quote hidden}

I don't think you need to clear the carry first. Also, you can test for
zero by moving a byte of ram to itself. Your code becomes...


      movlw   B'11111111' ; Error sign
      call    SendMorseChar

SendMorseChar
 cblock
      MorseChar
 endc
      movwf MorseChar    ; Save character for shifting
SendMorseCharA
      RLF   MorseChar,f  ; shift msb into carry
      movf  MorseChar,f  ; test to see if we're done
      bz    SendMorseCharZ ; We're done, get out
      skpc               ; skip if dit
      call  DoDah        ; go send dah - PRESERVE CARRY!
      skpnc
      call  DoDit        ; go send dit
      call  InterCharDelay
      goto  SendMorseCharA ; go send next bit, if any
SendMorseCharZ
      return              ; we're outta here!



Harold

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2007\03\16@173313 by James Newton, Host

face picon face

> I don't think you need to clear the carry first. Also, you
> can test for zero by moving a byte of ram to itself. Your
> code becomes...


Ahhh, the true reason for the PICList.

Are we down to 12 instructions yet?

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2007\03\16@175118 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> > Wouldn't a stop bit be easier? Shift, if result in register
> is 0 you
> > are done, else you transmit what is in the carry and shift again.
> >
> > Wouter van Ooijen
>
>
> But what would the start bit be? How do you distinguish it
> from a data bit? The start bit is clever since it's the first
> 1 after a string of 0s. You just always throw out the leading
> 1, then interpret what's left.

No start bit needed, the first 'data' bit is the leftmost. The stop bit
is the rightmost 1.

11110000 is - - -
10000000 is nothing
00010000 is . . .
00000000 is not allowed
01011000 is . - . -

etc.

Wouter van Ooijen

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2007\03\16@175248 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> > I don't think you need to clear the carry first. Also, you
> > can test for zero by moving a byte of ram to itself. Your
> > code becomes...
>  
> Ahhh, the true reason for the PICList.
>
> Are we down to 12 instructions yet?

Just wait for Scotty...

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
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docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\03\16@192316 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

> The start bit idea is clever! It allows a character to have
> up to 7 dits or dahs.

Heh.  The motorola "Black Widow" design contest (for their 8pin
cpus, essentially) has as one of the "steps" to finish a morse
code program.  The core that they supply stores the translation
table as STRINGS:

>>> char *convert(char c){    //Convert ASCII received        switch(c){
>>>                case 'a':
>>>                        return ".-";
>>>                case 'b':
>>>                        return "-...";
>>>                case 'c':
>>>                        return "-.-.";
>>>
I guess that says something about changes in attention paid to
code size by "youngins" these days.  And C vs ASM, perhaps.
Although since the high-end 8pin chip contains 8kbyte of flash
(more than any other 8pin uC?) I guess it doesn't matter.

{Quote hidden}

Speaking of C compilers, this is a good example of the sort of
code that I think it would be really difficult for a C compiler
to generate; It's what I meant by "explicit use of carry."  Does
anybody want to take a shot at C code/compiler implementation
that comes close to outputting this?

(And on the third hand, it is perhaps also an example of optimization
that doesn't need to be done.)

BillW

2007\03\16@194020 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
>
> Heh.  The motorola "Black Widow" design contest (for their 8pin
> cpus, essentially) has as one of the "steps" to finish a morse
> code program.  The core that they supply stores the translation
> table as STRINGS:
>
> >>> char *convert(char c){    //Convert ASCII received  switch(c){
> >>>             case 'a':
> >>>                     return ".-";



OH MY GOD..
I know!  We can store each char as a wav file that has all the beeps and
silence for each char!



(And on the third hand, it is perhaps also an example of optimization
> that doesn't need to be done.)


But if you don't think this way, you end up wasting bits here and there that
add up to something in the end.

2007\03\16@195615 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Mar 16, 2007, at 4:40 PM, David VanHorn wrote:

> But if you don't think this way, you end up wasting bits here
> and there that add up to something in the end.
>
"A megabyte here, a megabyte there, and pretty soon you're talking
about real memory!" ?

I was talking about the code possibly expanding from 14 word to 30
words, not the blatant waste of space in the translation table.

BillW

2007\03\16@202033 by Orin Eman

picon face
On 3/16/07, William Chops Westfield <TakeThisOuTwestfwEraseMEspamspam_OUTmac.com> wrote:
>
> > SendMorseCharA
> >        RLF   MorseChar,f  ; shift msb into carry
> >        movf  MorseChar,f  ; test to see if we're done
> >        bz    SendMorseCharZ ; We're done, get out
   movlw DITLEN
   skpc               ; skip if dit
   movlw DAHLEN
> >        call  DoBit        ; go send bit
> >        call  InterBitDelay
> >        goto  SendMorseCharA ; go send next bit, if any
> > SendMorseCharZ
> >        return              ; we're outta here!

> Speaking of C compilers, this is a good example of the sort of
> code that I think it would be really difficult for a C compiler
> to generate; It's what I meant by "explicit use of carry."

I'd do something like the above instead since the difference between a
dit and a dah is their length...

> (And on the third hand, it is perhaps also an example of optimization
> that doesn't need to be done.)

True.

Orin.

2007\03\16@232042 by Harold Hallikainen

face
flavicon
face
That's good! It also avoids the "preserve carry" issue.

Harold


{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\03\17@184248 by Peter P.

picon face
Speaking in terms of training, are there any free Koch/Farnsworth tables out
there ? I wrote a little script that generates groups (voice + morse) using the
K. timing but I'd like to see some more like it before I use 'my' self-made
training sets.

Peter P.


2007\03\19@084056 by Hazelwood Lyle

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> > Ahhh, the true reason for the PICList.
> >
> > Are we down to 12 instructions yet?
>

I must have missed something here.
Is there some special virtue to a working 12 step program?
I must have missed that meeting.
I'll keep coming back until I figure it out. ;-)

Lyle

2007\03\19@142129 by Thomas C. Sefranek

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-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-bouncesEraseMEspam.....mit.edu [EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspammit.edu] On Behalf Of
Hazelwood Lyle
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:42 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [OT] Morse speed

> > Ahhh, the true reason for the PICList.
> >
> > Are we down to 12 instructions yet?
>

I must have missed something here.
Is there some special virtue to a working 12 step program?
I must have missed that meeting.
I'll keep coming back until I figure it out. ;-)

Lyle

Good luck with that, let me know how it turns out for you.
There may be an H.P. involved too.

Tom

 *
 |  __O    Thomas C. Sefranek  RemoveMEWA1RHPEraseMEspamEraseMEARRL.NET
 |_-\<,_   Amateur Radio Operator: WA1RHP
 (*)/ (*)  Bicycle mobile on 145.41MHz PL74.4

ARRL Instructor, Technical Specialist, VE Contact.
hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/Inventory.html
http://www.harvardrepeater.org

2007\03\21@074222 by Dennis Crawley

picon face
On Friday, March 16, 2007 6:03 PM [GMT-3=CET],
Thomas C. Sefranek  wrote:

> I don't doubt you are right, 50 sounds familiar...
>
> I DO doubt the claims to 150 W/M, the test is just a computer connected to
> another computer.  Heck, even the famous Hashi Nose only copied 55-60 W/M.
> (I actually worked him once...)
>
> Tom


Thomas,
The thing is to find which is the highest sending velocity reached by man.
150wpm gives us 8ms per element, which is under the normal 20ms
debouncing,...
The debouncing here is an issue and set the limit of the system,...am I
right?

60s / .02s = 3000 / 50 elements(1wpm) = 60 wpm

I think this factor which set the system limit in pico-keyer(Dale Botkin)
www.hamgadgets.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=51
http://www.arrl.org/qst/2003/12/0312038.pdf


Dennis

ps: Yes, I'm trying to make a semiautomatic keyer now :)




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