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'[OT] Moderation and list policy progression'
2010\02\22@164405 by Vitaliy

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> #4  They could read anything on the PIClist and not get upset.
> They could choose to ignore anything they considered a
> waste of time.  They would not have to be protected by
> "nanny" moderators because ..... see #1
> They could differentiate between useful information and
> ad hominems.  They might even exceed fish self-awareness
> by recognizing the water they swim in.

Unfortunately we are neither angels, nor governed by angels.

Moderation is a necessary evil.




2010\02\22@164830 by M. Adam Davis

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Interesting thought, but that assumes that the conversation is one
way, and that only one side of the conversation needs to compromise.

I submit that when both parties understand their audience, and attempt
to communicate meaningful, useful, and positive information, the
results of the conversation are far better than otherwise.

A similar, possibly cliche, quote is, "Make sure everyone you talk to
is better off for having talked to you."  Certainly not always
possible, but I see no reason why technical information can't be
transferred in such a manner.

-Adam

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 4:14 PM, YES NOPE9 <spam_OUTyesTakeThisOuTspamnope9.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2010\02\22@171726 by Olin Lathrop

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M. Adam Davis wrote:
> A similar, possibly cliche, quote is, "Make sure everyone you talk to
> is better off for having talked to you."

But back here in the real world, this is bad advice as a blanket statement.
Once you've decided part of the solution is to get the moron fired, you
clearly want him not to be better off after you talk.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2010\02\22@175606 by M. Adam Davis

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On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Olin Lathrop <.....olin_piclistKILLspamspam@spam@embedinc.com> wrote:
> M. Adam Davis wrote:
>> A similar, possibly cliche, quote is, "Make sure everyone you talk to
>> is better off for having talked to you."
>
> But back here in the real world, this is bad advice as a blanket statement.
> Once you've decided part of the solution is to get the moron fired, you
> clearly want him not to be better off after you talk.

Honestly, if he's that bad at his job I can only imagine he'll be
significantly better off in a different line of work, so as far as I'm
concerned they would be better off having been told the truth about
their skills.  But you can _generally_ tell them the truth without
adopting an offensive line of discussion.

Regardless, I don't know the whole thing holds up when applied to the
piclist.  Can you tell with the simple messages people post here as
newbies that they are truly stupid and should get lost (ie, fired from
the list)?  It's easy enough in a design review, but email messages
don't communicate enough to tell whether the design is stupid because
the person is incapable of learning the right way, or the person
simply lacks the skills and experience to do it the right way but are
otherwise interested and capable of learning.

I must be thinking about this too much.  I'm now travelling down the
path of, "If people are devices, then they communicate using APIs.
What are the characteristics of the API, and how to best communicate
to get the device to perform the intended action, or incorporate the
information into their memory."

If only life were so simple.  Unfortunately no one sticks strictly to
the english dictionary, which would be a fine standard if people
didn't color the words and phrases with their own perspective,
connotations, experience, interpretation, etc.

On the other hand.... hmmm...

How Olin, would you mind publishing your API?  If we get everyone to
do this, then we can generate a translator and end all
incompatibilites in one fell swoop!

;-D

-Adam

2010\02\22@180426 by YES NOPE9

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>
> On Feb 22, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Vitaliy wrote:
>
>> #4  They could read anything on the PIClist and not get upset.
>> They could choose to ignore anything they considered a
>> waste of time.  They would not have to be protected by
>> "nanny" moderators because ..... see #1
>> They could differentiate between useful information and
>> ad hominems.  They might even exceed fish self-awareness
>> by recognizing the water they swim in.
>
> Unfortunately we are neither angels, nor governed by angels.
>
> Moderation is a necessary evil.

I would like to believe that practicing evil is never a good idea.
Of course, having said that , I fail in my efforts often.
Moderation is a mistake more often than not.
Gus


2010\02\22@181022 by YES NOPE9

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The API idea sounds great.  Not stupid.
Way to go AD !
Gus


{Quote hidden}

2010\02\22@183846 by Dario Greggio

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M. Adam Davis ha scritto:

> How Olin, would you mind publishing your API?  If we get everyone to
> do this, then we can generate a translator and end all
> incompatibilites in one fell swoop!
>

:)
mine: I use "Olin's style" only after some "retries" i.e. when the other
side has shown being unresponsive, "silly" or arrogant. Never the first
time - a second choice is given to anybody.

--

Ciao, Dario
--
Cyberdyne

2010\02\22@195523 by Vitaliy

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Olin Lathrop wrote:
>> A similar, possibly cliche, quote is, "Make sure everyone you talk to
>> is better off for having talked to you."
>
> But back here in the real world, this is bad advice as a blanket
> statement.
> Once you've decided part of the solution is to get the moron fired, you
> clearly want him not to be better off after you talk.

Woa! :-O You want to punish the guy AFTER he's been fired. Why?

I've had to fire a number of people over the years, and though the last time
I had to fire someone it wasn't any easier than the first time, I learned
that there is a right and a wrong way to do it. The right way means the
person shakes your hand, and walks away with their dignity intact.

Vitaliy

2010\02\23@074948 by Olin Lathrop

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Vitaliy wrote:
>> Once you've decided part of the solution is to get the moron fired,
>> you clearly want him not to be better off after you talk.
>
> Woa! :-O You want to punish the guy AFTER he's been fired. Why?

Bad wording on my part apparently.  I meant getting fired as the not being
better off part.  I was also assuming in this situation someone else is
doing the actual firing.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

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