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'[OT] Microchip forums'
2006\01\20@070346 by olin piclist

face picon face
Chen Xiao Fan wrote:
> By the way, from the Microchip Forum, the original author (Brad
> Minch) has just updated all the projects (now there are 4 projects
> in both C and ASM). Those who are interested in USB PICs should
> check the Microchip Forum USB section. There are plenty of examples
> there. In fact Brad Minch's post is the most popular thread in the
> whole Microchip Forum.

I hadn't realized it until you mentioned the Microchip Forums, but I haven't
heard anything lately.  This may have been going on for a week, I'm not
sure.  I have email notification of new messages for selected forums
enabled.  I only react to those and don't browse the forums deliberately.  I
just checked, and my account and all the subscription and notification
preferences are all still intact.  Did this happen to you too?  Any idea
what is going on?  I suppose I'll post a message in the About the Forums
forum when I get around to it and ask there.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\20@071041 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 1/20/06, Olin Lathrop <spam_OUTolin_piclistTakeThisOuTspamembedinc.com> wrote:
>
> I hadn't realized it until you mentioned the Microchip Forums, but I haven't
> heard anything lately.  This may have been going on for a week, I'm not
> sure.  I have email notification of new messages for selected forums
> enabled.  I only react to those and don't browse the forums deliberately.  I
> just checked, and my account and all the subscription and notification
> preferences are all still intact.  Did this happen to you too?  Any idea
> what is going on?  I suppose I'll post a message in the About the Forums
> forum when I get around to it and ask there.
>

The email notification is not working at all for quite some time.
The report is here:
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=136652

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\01\20@073204 by olin piclist

face picon face
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> The email notification is not working at all for quite some time.
> The report is here:
> http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=136652

Thanks.  Of course I didn't receive notification of that thread since email
notification is not working.  I thought it was funny Ken asking if others
weren't getting email notifications either.  It's kindof like taking
attendence by asking everyone who is not there to raise their hand.  Anyway,
I hope they fix it soon.  The forum clickety-click interface is too tedius
to bother looking for new messages that way.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\20@171650 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
Olin Lathrop said 2006 Jan 20, Fri 04:34
>
> Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> > The email notification is not working at all for quite some time.
> > The report is here:
> > http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=136652
>
> Thanks.  Of course I didn't receive notification of that
> thread since email notification is not working.  I thought it
> was funny Ken asking if others weren't getting email
> notifications either.  It's kindof like taking attendence by
> asking everyone who is not there to raise their hand.  
> Anyway, I hope they fix it soon.  The forum clickety-click
> interface is too tedius to bother looking for new messages that way.

Luckily you have the PICList...

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2006\01\20@181617 by olin piclist

face picon face
James Newtons Massmind wrote:
> Luckily you have the PICList...

Well yeah, but they're different.  The PIClist has an easier user interface
since it's email based.  The Microchip forums generally have a better signal
to noise ratio, and Microchip people sometimes jump in with definative
answers and advice.  The Microchip forums also have way more volume, but
fortunately you can subscribe to individual forums and threads.  It's kindof
like the PIClist having 100 or more topic tags.  I also think the PIClist
has a lower ratio of totally clueless bozos asking stupid questions.

The Microchip forums are more focused and to the point, but the flip side is
you don't have the Everything Engineering discussions, but the flip side of
those is that too many posts stray from signal into noise, but then again
..

Now if there was only a list that discussed everything I wanted and nothing
I didn't  ;-)


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\20@183956 by Dmitriy Kiryashov

picon face
You are welcome to start one.. :)

WBR Dmitry.


Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
> Now if there was only a list that discussed
> everything I wanted and nothing I didn't  ;-)

2006\01\20@192645 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Olin,

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:16:12 -0500, Olin Lathrop wrote:

>...
> Now if there was only a list that discussed everything I wanted and nothing
> I didn't  ;-)

But who would you talk to?  :-)))

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\01\20@214047 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Jan 20, 2006, at 3:16 PM, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> The Microchip forums generally have a better signal
> to noise ratio
       :
> I also think the PIClist has a lower ratio of totally
> clueless bozos asking stupid questions.

I agree, especially with the last point.  But the set of two
thoughts are interesting taken together.  Piclist is like
listening to an elderly curmudgeon ramble; some of the stories
are interesting, and some of the advice invaluable, but...

I've been pretty shocked at the level of cluelessness displayed
on assorted official forums where you'd think people would know
better.  The Eagle newsgroups are another example; if I was the
cadsoft representative tasked with saying 'use the mirror command'
every time someone asked how to move components to the other side
of the board, I think I'd have run away screaming a long time ago!

BillW

2006\01\20@215444 by John Nall

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:
> > I also think the PIClist
> has a lower ratio of totally clueless bozos asking stupid questions.
>  
.
That is because the PIClist has a fearsome reputation for savaging
totally clueless bozos asking stupid questions.  :-)


2006\01\20@220152 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 06:41 PM 1/20/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>On Jan 20, 2006, at 3:16 PM, Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
> > The Microchip forums generally have a better signal
> > to noise ratio
>         :
> > I also think the PIClist has a lower ratio of totally
> > clueless bozos asking stupid questions.
>
>I agree, especially with the last point.  But the set of two
>thoughts are interesting taken together.  Piclist is like
>listening to an elderly curmudgeon ramble; some of the stories
>are interesting, and some of the advice invaluable, but...

Hey, I resemble that remark!

>I've been pretty shocked at the level of cluelessness displayed
>on assorted official forums where you'd think people would know
>better.  The Eagle newsgroups are another example; if I was the
>cadsoft representative tasked with saying 'use the mirror command'
>every time someone asked how to move components to the other side
>of the board, I think I'd have run away screaming a long time ago!

Probably because the 'obvious' web-based support forums are easier to find--
it takes more effort to find mailing lists.

>Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
speffspamKILLspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
->> Inexpensive test equipment & parts http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZspeff


2006\01\20@221823 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 1/21/06, John Nall <.....jwnallKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:
> Olin Lathrop wrote:
> > > I also think the PIClist
> > has a lower ratio of totally clueless bozos asking stupid questions.
> >
> .
> That is because the PIClist has a fearsome reputation for savaging
> totally clueless bozos asking stupid questions.  :-)
>

It is also because that the Microchip Forum has lots of patient yet
capable experts (super super memeber like ric, j_doin, pacer,
kalpak, bob_barr, ...) who are willing to go the extra mile.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\01\21@091600 by olin piclist

face picon face
John Nall wrote:
>> I also think the PIClist
>> has a lower ratio of totally clueless bozos asking stupid questions.
>
> That is because the PIClist has a fearsome reputation for savaging
> totally clueless bozos asking stupid questions.  :-)

I guess it's working then.

Actually the clueless bozos get whacked more on the Microchip forums in my
opinion.  Its just that there's always another bozo.  Probably once a day or
two one of them posts the same stupid questions to multiple forums despite
the FAQ explicitly saying not to do that.  Because the forums are run by
Microchip some people feel they are entitled to help there even though
Microchip is very clear that it is peer to peer support only.  I've
suggested that any posts with "urgent", "respond quickly", or "deadline" in
the title be summarily discarded and the user automatically blocked for the
next 12 hours, but Microchip is reluctant to do that for some reason ;-)


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\21@093642 by John Nall

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:
> > I've
> suggested that any posts with "urgent", "respond quickly", or "deadline" in
> the title be summarily discarded and the user automatically blocked for the
> next 12 hours, but Microchip is reluctant to do that for some reason ;-)
>  
.
Cannot figure out why they would be reluctant -- they would probably
take the same dim view of summary executions.   Large corporations just
have no sense of social responsibility, I guess.  :-(

2006\01\21@100000 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 1/21/06, Olin Lathrop <EraseMEolin_piclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTembedinc.com> wrote:
> Actually the clueless bozos get whacked more on the Microchip forums in my
> opinion.  Its just that there's always another bozo.  Probably once a day or
> two one of them posts the same stupid questions to multiple forums despite
> the FAQ explicitly saying not to do that.

I do not see much problems in the major sections I am interested (USB,
programmers, C18 and now a bit of dsPIC/C30). I guess there are not
many newbies in these sections (okay there are some clueless posts in
the programmer section).

Anyway, I think you can just ignore those posts. In fact, quite some posts
are ignored and that is good. I do not think there is too much need to
treat them too hard.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\01\21@100232 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 1/21/06, John Nall <jwnallspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
> Olin Lathrop wrote:
> > > I've
> > suggested that any posts with "urgent", "respond quickly", or "deadline" in
> > the title be summarily discarded and the user automatically blocked for the
> > next 12 hours, but Microchip is reluctant to do that for some reason ;-)
> >
> .
> Cannot figure out why they would be reluctant -- they would probably
> take the same dim view of summary executions.   Large corporations just
> have no sense of social responsibility, I guess.  :-(

I do not understand you here. Why they need to treat people with clueless
posts so hard? And why is this "no sense of social responsibility"?

Is this again an English language barrier?

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\01\21@101807 by John Nall

picon face
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> On 1/21/06, John Nall <@spam@jwnallKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
>  
>
> > I do not understand you here. Why they need to treat people with clueless
> posts so hard? And why is this "no sense of social responsibility"?
>
> Is this again an English language barrier?
>  
Not a language barrier -- perhaps more of a cultural difference.   I
understand that Olin is speaking with a certain amount of
tongue-in-cheek, and he understands that I am.   And both of us
understand that people with clueless posts are not necessarily evil
people.  A lot of them -- probably most of them -- are just on the very
beginning of  the learning curve.   I would think it very likely that in
any culture words do not always mean exactly what they say,  taken
literally.


2006\01\21@132959 by Peter

picon face


On Sat, 21 Jan 2006, Howard Winter wrote:

> Olin,
>
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:16:12 -0500, Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
>> ...
>> Now if there was only a list that discussed everything I wanted and nothing
>> I didn't  ;-)
>
> But who would you talk to?  :-)))

I think that I know where to find willing members who know how to take
some abuse (and return it):

http://www.spaceports.com/~sjlaven/teachable.htm

Peter

2006\01\21@165951 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Jan 21, 2006, at 6:59 AM, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

>> Its just that there's always another bozo.
>
> I do not see much problems in the major sections I am interested
> (USB, programmers, C18 and now a bit of dsPIC/C30).

I looked briefly at the USB forum a while ago when there wasn't
much discussion here.  Seemed to me that there were a lot of
recurring "The PICs are USB devices, not USB Hosts" answers...
That's not quite clueless, but it gets pretty tiring.

BillW

2006\01\21@181729 by Mike Singer

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Now if there was only a list that discussed everything
> I wanted and nothing I didn't  ;-)

He who precisely knows what he wanted and what he didn't is known to
be called Robot ;-)

Mike.

2006\01\21@182422 by Mike Singer

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:
>  I also think the PIClist has a lower ratio of totally
> clueless bozos asking stupid questions.

Actually it's ok if a totally clueless bozo asked stupid questions in
a wise manner.
Hmm, a totally clueless someone who asked a stupid question in a wise
manner, is he bozo?

Mike.

2006\01\21@193730 by Jinx

face picon face

> Hmm, a totally clueless someone who asked a stupid question
> in a wise manner, is he bozo?

Mike, if you don't know the answer, you might not realise it's
a stupid question ;-)

And there are all sorts of reasons why you might not know the
answer - poor research, busted chip or bad circuit that's doing
something unexpected (eg interference) etc etc

The Microchip forum posts I hate are like "Cant get I2C working
on 14F88, what am I doing wrong ?"

That isn't a stupid question, but it's a stupid way of asking. Anyone
who takes that on is going to have to play "20 Questions". It's the
kind of question often asked out of desperation, but that's no excuse
for not taking 5 minutes to compose yourself and provide some
specifics that will get you a better answer

I wonder whether the education system and parents are at fault
for not teaching young 'uns how to research and find their own
answers. And we're all made differently - some people can
express themselves well, some can't

Although the web makes it easier to find information, it can be
conflicting or incomplete, which doesn't help, so you still need to
refer to a real person. Pre-web, you'd have to ask around / read
around and just take someone's (maybe even just one person's)
word for it, without being able to double-check. And that word
may have been wrong

You also realise with the web is that there are so many people
who know little tricks and can share experiences

Before asking anything here I always at least Google. You don't
always get what you want, but it's a start, and it often leads to a
wee increase in your knowledge that may come in useful another
day

2006\01\21@221451 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> Hmm, a totally clueless someone who asked a stupid question in a
> wise
> manner, is he bozo?

A less than exhaustive search * of PICList posts indicates that in all
threads where the term "bozo" appears (including this one), Olin first
used the term. All other uses are by people quoting Olin either
directly or indirectly. This indicates that for PIClist purposes a
'bozo' is a person who Olin does not approve of or, perhaps, a person
on whom Olin bestows the appellation. If this is in fact the case, as
it appears to be, then a clueless someone asking a stupid in a wise
manner (always allowing that such be possible) would be a bozo if Olin
deemed him/her one and not if he didn't. History suggests that odds
are that Olin, should he deign to be involved in such an exchange,
would almost always so label such a questioner. As he often labels
wise & informed, and clueful but uninformed questioners bozos the odds
are that almost everyone here is a bozo until they gain a security
clearance from Olin.


       R :-) M

*
An exhaustive search MAY show otherwise.
Would be interesting.



2006\01\21@231809 by Mike Singer

picon face
Russell McMahon wrote:

>  As he often labels wise & informed, and clueful
> but uninformed questioners bozos the odds
> are that almost everyone here is a bozo until
> they gain a security clearance from Olin.

It's great that PICList has got such diferent people on board. Some
reasonable  deviation in  tolerance among picsters must be tolerated
in my non-admin opinion.
Aren't we intolerant to some diversity, are we?

Best Regards,
Mike.

2006\01\22@050405 by Bill & Pookie

picon face
Been married 33 years, know how to take abuse.


Bill

"Yes he does" Pookie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter" <KILLspamplpKILLspamspamactcom.co.il>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <RemoveMEpiclistTakeThisOuTspammit.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Microchip forums


{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\01\22@064959 by Bill & Pookie

picon face
I don't think I have made Olin's "Bozo" list, but I have made his "Silly"
list, which I wear as a Badge of Honor.  And I think he likes Pookie.

What I see is students and othere who don't want to make any effort
themselves and expect you to do the class assignment or project for them.
And the class assignment is always "urgent" as it is due the next day.

I guess the best thing to do on here is to do some "homework" before posting
a question.

Bill

{Original Message removed}

2006\01\22@083322 by John Nall

picon face
Bill & Pookie wrote:
> I don't think I have made Olin's "Bozo" list, but I have made his "Silly"
> list, which I wear as a Badge of Honor.  And I think he likes Pookie.
>
>  
The most I ever got from him was a "RTFM" message, and there was not
even an exclamation point after it.  I feel slighted.  :-(  I think that
at the time I was so clueless that I didn't even know how to properly
act clueless.

2006\01\22@101326 by olin piclist

face picon face
Russell McMahon wrote:
> A less than exhaustive search * of PICList posts indicates that in all
> threads where the term "bozo" appears (including this one), Olin first
> used the term. All other uses are by people quoting Olin either
> directly or indirectly. This indicates that for PIClist purposes a
> 'bozo' is a person who Olin does not approve of or, perhaps, a person
> on whom Olin bestows the appellation.

Do you really expect clueless bozos to announce themselves as such?  Also,
the term "bozo" or any other suitably derrogatory term is unlikely to appear
in direct response to such a post since that would be name calling and James
would put a stop to it.  Your data, although perhaps correct, does not lead
to your conclusion.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

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