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'[OT] Linux versions?'
1999\06\16@124226 by Harrison Cooper

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We are getting a laptop, and on the spare drive going to load linux.  From
what I have heard, there are a few different versions floating around.  I
don't care to download from the net, but want to BUY (yes..pay money) for
a version on CD.  So, what version and where to purchase....

private replies are probability better

spam_OUThcooperTakeThisOuTspames.com

1999\06\16@125646 by Peter Tiang

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www.redhat.com

This is one of the better maintained Linux distribution.
Current version is RedHat 6.0, goes for about US$79.95 for the Official
version or US$39.95 for the Core version

Regards,
Peter Tiang

{Original Message removed}

1999\06\16@125901 by Andy Kunz

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>a version on CD.  So, what version and where to purchase....

It depends on the laptop brand.

Red Hat is probably the best bet.

Andy
==================================================================
  Andy Kunz - http://www.montanadesign.com - .....andyKILLspamspam@spam@montanadesign.com
          Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity
==================================================================

1999\06\16@132101 by Aaron and Hifumi

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Being as you have never used it before, you might want to try a couple of
different distributions of it to find which you prefer. As stated in other
mails, redhat is very popular. The current version if Redhat6. Suse6.1 is also
a nice distro, and some prefer Debian.

I suggest checking out the two websites below, and buying a couple different
versions of the cheaper cd's.

http://cart.cheapbytes.com/cgi-bin/cart
http://www.lsl.com/

Being as Linux is free basically, the distro's that charge $40+ for the cd-sets
have some value added products with them, along with a degree of support. If
you don't care to get commercial software along with the distro, you can buy
the cheap CD's (5 dollars and under) and have the same distribution as the
expensive one. Same installers, same packages, same everything, other than a
few software packages that you might not use anyhow and support that you can
get anyhow off the net. These cd's contain the same linux distributions that
you could download off the companies websites.

I've order cd's from both of the previous mentioned website, and both are very
good resellers.

Aaron


> > We are getting a laptop, and on the spare drive going to load linux.  From
> > what I have heard, there are a few different versions floating around.  I
> > don't care to download from the net, but want to BUY (yes..pay money) for
> > a version on CD.  So, what version and where to purchase....
> >
> > private replies are probability better
> >
> > hcooperspamKILLspames.com
> >

1999\06\16@141120 by Bob Drzyzgula

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My $0.02 review:

Red Hat is a good generic choice, and you will almost
always be able to find people who are familiar with
it. Caldera 2.2 -- http://www.calderasystems.com -- is
fairly windows-friendly in that it will autorun/launch from
Windows, repartition the disk with System Commander, and
by default leave you with a dual-boot machine. They also
do a good job of integrating a DOS Emulator, since they
provide a DR-DOS boot image; most other vendors include a
FreeDOS image. SuSE -- http://www.suse.com -- is another
good choice; they tend to provide a much larger collection
of pre-compiled packages, and are an excellent choice if
you need solid and thorough internationalization. Caldera
and SuSE do a better job of integrating KDE than Red Hat,
but if you want to use the Gnome desktop, Red Hat is the
way to go. Mandrake -- http://www.linux-mandrake.org --
takes the core Red Hat distribution, compiles it with the
Pentium-and-up optimized pgcc compiler, and puts a bunch
of care into integrating KDE. It is quite nice.  Debian --
http://www.debian.org -- is among the best distributions
for serious Linux software developers; In Debian, you can
count on finding more packages, in more recent versions,
more well-integrated and cross-checked than you typically
see in the other distributions. But don't expect to understand
how it works on the first try.

If you expect to use some commercial software such
as Star Office, Word Perfect, ApplixWare, Sybase,
etc., you might want to check through the spec sheets
to see which packages are included in which distributions.

If you don't expect to use the support and
documentation from someone like Red Hat or Caldera,
or the commercial packages, you can also get most
distributions (free portions only) from Cheap Bytes --
http://www.cheapbytes.com -- for between $2 and $5 plus
shipping. Despite the name, Cheap Bytes does an excellent
job preparing their CDs; I usually buy a complete set from
them three or four times per year.  Cheap Bytes also has
excellent prices on the full commercial versions of the
products, as well as on various Linux books. I highly
recommend buying from them -- bargain or commercial
versions -- no matter which distribution you pick.

--Bob

On Wed, Jun 16, 1999 at 10:41:31AM -0600, Harrison Cooper wrote:
> We are getting a laptop, and on the spare drive going to load linux.  From
> what I have heard, there are a few different versions floating around.  I
> don't care to download from the net, but want to BUY (yes..pay money) for
> a version on CD.  So, what version and where to purchase....
>
> private replies are probability better
>
> .....hcooperKILLspamspam.....es.com

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
EraseMEbobspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

1999\06\16@144906 by Mark Willis

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All I can add here is that Slackware's nice in some ways as well.
MANY Slackware fans here in the Seattle area.

 You might either get with your local Linux User's Group, OR, Take a
"Spare" desktop system, & install each in turn, see what you like and
detest about each, this is a good way to go.  For tiny installs (120 Mb
HDD dual-boot Dos/Linux machines) I've used SlackWare as it's easier
(for me) to install in limited space, you can pick & choose the pieces
you need;  LOTS of people like Red Hat, though.  If you try it first &
like it, nothing's wrong with staying with it <G>

 All of these "Basically" give you the same core Linux code, with some
install packaging / wrapper differences - and some add-on's & included
goodies are different.  Infomagic has a 6-CD set they sell that's not
bad, though the CheapBytes & LSL sets are cheaper.

 I suggested installing on a desktop machine as it's usually easier to
install than on laptops (unless you have a laptop with built-in,
Linux-supported CD-Rom drive <G>)  Some old 486 VLB machine does nicely,
just go take a walk as it re-compiles if needed.  (Watched Compiles
always fail with bad obscure error messages, ya know?  <G>)

 Mark

Bob Drzyzgula wrote:
>
> My $0.02 review:
> <snipped tons of good info from everyone>

1999\06\17@020959 by root

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Hi,
do not forget S.u.S.E. please. (It uses also rpm, though <G>).
Imre


On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Andy Kunz wrote:

{Quote hidden}


'[OT] Linux versions?'
1999\08\16@164310 by John Griessen
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I saw a lot of referrals to for sale sites so here is my
personal learning experience aimed at those on the list
who want to install

Linux on leftover hardware from their attics.

Red hat needs a 1.5 gig HDD and Linux in general needs a video card
that is mainstream and not upgraded it seems, since a Matrox
expression 3D PCI card is not on their list, but the Millennium is.

Linux Central sells the Redhat Linux for the cost of the discs plus $5
shipping
about $9 to your door.  No printed manual, no phone call.  But the phone
call
is not so valuable anyway...hanging out on a newsgroup asking questions
about compatibility and things like the 1.5 gig HDD required is valuable
to spend time on.  I found someone who volunteered to field questions
as I installed Linux the first time.

How to partition your HDD is not covered very well in the how to's...
I'm still confused about that, but since I am going to be just
using a station as an X terminal, I don't care enough to go beyond
a vanilla installation yet.   No matter what "packaged" version of Linux,
the docs are self conflicting often...as you read you can get different
directions
from different sections of the help files..Expect little info on trade offs
of disk partitioning or how to create a raid array right from the start.

Anyone?

1999\08\16@193113 by Bob Blick

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Hi John,

Not to start an incredible long linux thread here, but I have linux
installed on a 486-33 with a 100 meg hard disk(40 meg free), and it's
running a web server and mail server.

Perhaps you checked "everything" when you did your install :-)

Also, any vga card will work in 16 color mode. It may take some fussing
around to get some cards to work in native mode, but you can run X in vga
just fine. Searching with altavista for "xfree86" and the name of your
video card will usually turn up a helpful web page with hints for your card.

Installing linux with "everything" is a lot like installing win98 - it
takes the same hardware. If you are using a 386 with a 100 meg drive you
need to be experienced with linux in order to know what you do and do not
need.

Linux is a pain in the butt to install sometimes, but Windows can be too.

If you buy the boxed version of RedHat you get support. Same with SuSe.

Just my .02

Cheers,
Bob

At 03:45 PM 8/16/99 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\08\17@005517 by Bob Drzyzgula

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On Mon, Aug 16, 1999 at 03:45:16PM -0500, John Griessen wrote:
> I saw a lot of referrals to for sale sites so here is my
> personal learning experience aimed at those on the list
> who want to install Linux on leftover hardware from their attics.

In my experience, installing Linux on leftover hardware
can in fact be more likely to work well than installing
on the absolute latest thing. Granted, some very oddball,
antique stuff won't be supported, but that is frequently
the case with the myriad versions of Windows as well. E.g.,
installing Windows NT on a machine with an unsupported
CD-ROM drive can be a maddening experience, and devices
supported only with real-mode DOS drivers can cause no
end of trouble with Windows 95.

> Red hat needs a 1.5 gig HDD and Linux in general needs a video card
> that is mainstream and not upgraded it seems, since a Matrox
> expression 3D PCI card is not on their list, but the Millennium is.

It simply is not true that Red Hat "needs" a 1.5GB
hard drive; 1.5GB is enough to install endless games, a
dozen language compilers and every bit of documentation
in five languages.  RedHat lists 135MB for a minimum
install, 600MB for a typical install and 1.2GB for
the whole shebang. Other distributions, especially
Slackware, can be installed in much less space, and
there are special-purpose Linux distributions -- e.g. Trinux
(http://www.trinux.org) for network security analysis,
and LRP (http://www.linuxrouter.org/) which will turn your
PC into a LAN or WAN router -- that can boot off a couple
of floppies with no requirement whatsoever for a hard disk.

The "Matrox expression 3D PCI" card does not appear to
be on Matrox's list, either -- as far as I can tell,
no such thing exists. Perhaps you meant either an
ATI Video Expression (well-supported in XFree86) or a
Matrox Impression (not listed for XFree86, but support is
available in the non-free Accelerated X from Xi Graphics
-- http://www.xigraphics.com). Matrox cards are actually a
weak spot for Linux, because for many years Matrox blocked
the XFree86 devleopers from obtaining the information they
needed to develop drivers (Matrox considered the inner
workings of their cards trade secrets, and the only way
that they could allow XFree86 to develop a Matrox driver
was to release those secrets -- most other graphics chip
vendors didn't see it that way). Thus this is more of a
Matrox problem than a Linux problem, although in the end
it works out to the same thing. The XFree86 supported
card list is at http://www.xfree86.org/cardlist.html,
and contains more than 550 entries. Commercial X Server
vendors extend support to virtually all other graphics
cards. As Bob Blick mentioned, if all else fails, you
can always use the VGA server.

> Linux Central sells the Redhat Linux for the cost of the discs plus $5
> shipping
> about $9 to your door.  No printed manual, no phone call.  But the phone
> call
> is not so valuable anyway...hanging out on a newsgroup asking questions
> about compatibility and things like the 1.5 gig HDD required is valuable
> to spend time on.  I found someone who volunteered to field questions
> as I installed Linux the first time.

One's first Linux install will almost always go more
smoothly if one can find an experinced Linux user
to help one along -- the nice thing is that it tends
to be very easy to find someone who would like to help,
especially if one genuinely asks for help rather than
complaining about how broken Linux is. If you have
trouble or don't like the idea of finding someone online,
you can try contacting a local Linux User's Group (LUG)
for help. Many LUGs periodically run "install fests",
where you can bring in your computer and they'll
help you get Linux installed right there on the spot.
http://www.linux.com has a search engine to help you
find a local LUG.

Printed documentation can be a big help to a beginner,
and I would suggest that it is well worth the investment.
If one cannot afford the $20-70 a decent, new Linux book
(or full-price distribution) can cost, one can often get
them from the local library or from a friend who has one
he or she is not using at the moment. FWIW, SuSE's
packaged distribution has an excellent printed manual.

Additonally, one can often find slightly out-of-date
Linux books in the discount/remainder shelves of local
bookstores for very little money; since general Linux
books almost always come with a Linux distribution CD,
you can get started with that and not worry about the book
describing something other than the distribution you are
working with. You'll probably want to upgrade later, but
the great thing about Linux is that you don't have to --
you can keep using an older version of Linux practically
forever if you want and it is doing what you need. Often
all that is really needed is to upgrade an occasional
package here and there, and perhaps the kernel itself.

> How to partition your HDD is not covered very well in the how to's...
> I'm still confused about that, but since I am going to be just
> using a station as an X terminal, I don't care enough to go beyond
> a vanilla installation yet.   No matter what "packaged" version of Linux,
> the docs are self conflicting often...as you read you can get different
> directions
> from different sections of the help files..Expect little info on trade offs
> of disk partitioning or how to create a raid array right from the start.

For a simple, just want to get started configuration, you
can just go ahead and put all of Linux on one big partition
(you probably want to create a swap partition as well if
you have limited memory, but it isn't absolutely required
if you have lots of memory, say 64MB). The conflicting
advice that you'll find in all the help files and howtos
is most likely a symptom of the fact that people are
describing so many different distributions and so many
ways to use Linux; depending on what you are trying to do
the advice may differ considerably (like, I have trouble
imagining how a RAID array would be useful in an X terminal
application). Plus, the online documentation does suffer
from a lack of consistant editing; people tend to be able
to state whatever opinions they want in those howtos,
and they will be included in the distribution as long as
there is solid, factual and useful information in there as
well. This is one reason to get a book that is tied to a
particular distribution and install the distribution that
your book (or manual) describes.

Beginners often confuse the task of understanding this
kind of thing -- partitioning the hard disk, configuring
the graphics card, etc -- with the task of understanding
Linux, in part because they find themselves learning both
a the same time. The reason for this is that many people
have never installed Windows, either; it came pre-installed
on their machine. PCs are complicated things, and
Windows only seems easy because Microsoft and the computer
OEMs manage to hide so many of the complications from
the user. In many cases, installing Windows can in fact
be a snap, but in too many other cases it can be an
extended nightmare.  I've installed each of Windows 3.1,
Windows for Workgroups 3.11, Windows 95, Windows 98,
Windows NT, Linux, Solaris, OS/2, and FreeBSD many
times. Linux, WinNT, Win95 and Solaris I've installed
dozens of times each. In the end, I'd give Linux the
nod for being easiest to install for a knowledgeable
person. My biggest problem with the two Windows versions
is that one has to reboot the computer sooo many times
before one is done. Windows 95 is a particular pain
because you can't boot off the CD, and you generally
have to have a real-mode driver available for the
CD-ROM drive that holds the Win95 distribution.  Windows
NT is a particular pain because it gives one so little
help resolving IRQ conflicts and other hardware issues.
(Win95 and Linux both are excellent at this). One thing
that Linux is amazingly good at is booting all the
way to a prompt even if there are minor, or even
major, problems with the configuration. Linux gives
one the ability to fix problems that would be virtually
impossible to fix with other operating systems.

In the end, installing operating systems is sort of like
making chile con carne. The first couple of times you
make it, you probably use the recipe from a cookbook. You
may make a mistake and you may or may not like the kind
of chile that the recipe describes -- there are so many
different kinds and variations of chile that if you don't
know how to sight-read a recipe, the result can easily be a
huge surprise. However, once you've made chile a half-dozen
or so times from a variety of recipes, you can start to
get a feel for what ingredients and techniques do what,
and which choices you need to make to get a result that
you like.  The last thing this is, however, is an argument
against bothering to make chile at all.

--Bob

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
@spam@bobKILLspamspamdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

1999\08\17@081127 by paulb

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John Griessen wrote:

> How to partition your HDD is not covered very well in the how to's...
> I'm still confused about that, but since I am going to be just
> using a station as an X terminal, I don't care enough to go beyond
> a vanilla installation yet.

 I'm *NO* expert and haven't figured out what a RAID array is yet, but
partitioning seems simple.

 Do you want a DOS/ Windows partition?  Install that O/S first.  If
using W95 OEM to do so, do NOT use the OFORMAT on the boot floppy.  In
fact, you need to perform surgery on the AUTOEXEC.BAT on the boot floppy
to make any sense of it at all.  It's a long topic...

 Having installed the DOS/ Win partition, run the Linux install.  Use
its FDISK to set up the Linux primary partition in the (most) space you
reserved when setting up Win, all bar 64M (or less on a small drive)
which you then partition and re-define as Linux Swap.  Follow the
installer from there.

 You should end up with /dev/hda1 as win, /dev/hda2 as Linux and
/dev/hda2 as your swap.  You should be able to tell LILO, installed in
your MBR, to make a default entry for Linux and a second to boot Win.
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\08\18@025511 by root

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On Tue, 17 Aug 1999, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote:

> John Griessen wrote:
>
> > How to partition your HDD is not covered very well in the how to's...
> > I'm still confused about that, but since I am going to be just
> > using a station as an X terminal, I don't care enough to go beyond
> > a vanilla installation yet.
>
>   I'm *NO* expert and haven't figured out what a RAID array is yet, but
> partitioning seems simple.
>
--- snip ---

A RAID array is AFAIK a huge array of hard disks and it is a
fault-tolerant device used mainly in mission-critical server applications.
A normal desktop user won't meet it directly.

I hope this helps.

Imre

PS: It is only mentioned bcus Linux supports also RAID as it used on the
said area.

1999\08\18@030314 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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RAID = Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks.  Have a look at
http://kb.indiana.edu/data/aewi.html

Regards

Mike

> {Original Message removed}

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