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'[OT] Linux question'
2007\02\04@153145 by Denny Esterline

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So recent discussions here finally prompted me to get my hands dirty with
Linux. I got a copy of Ubuntu 6.06 (dapper drake) and installed it on a
separate hard drive. The install was smooth and I have what seems to be a
stable desktop. Then I tried to get a dial up connection to my ISP...

It turns out I have a Connexant HCF winmodem and I need a different driver.
No problem, just boot back to windows and download it to a USB flash drive.
Reboot back Linux, oh I needed something else too, back to windows.....
about a day of back and forth later I've got to this. I need the debhelper
package for the driver to install. Package manager doesn't find it on the
install CD. All the web sites I've found say something to the effect of
"just use apt-get install debhelper" which is fine, but doesn't work if you
don't have network connectivity. Downloading debhelper directly lead me down
a long and convoluted, seemingly endless dependency chain. So I've got a bit
of a chicken and an egg problem, I need network to install package, I need
package to install network - any suggestions?

Thanks,
-Denny

2007\02\04@163244 by peter green

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{Quote hidden}

not really :( if it was debian i'd just tell you to get the later CDs but ubuntu doesn't have any later CDs

btw the chain is not endless, remember to install all the packages you have grabbed in one command so that dependency loops don't present a problem.



2007\02\04@170700 by David VanHorn

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>
> not really :( if it was debian i'd just tell you to get the later CDs but
> ubuntu doesn't have any later CDs


Edgy Eft is the current release

2007\02\04@172259 by Marcel Birthelmer

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Can you use apt-get to spit out a list of packages that are required,
and then fetch all of them by hand? (PITA, I know.)
- Marcel

On 2/4/07, David VanHorn <dvanhornspamKILLspammicrobrix.com> wrote:
> >
> > not really :( if it was debian i'd just tell you to get the later CDs but
> > ubuntu doesn't have any later CDs
>
>
> Edgy Eft is the current release
> -

2007\02\04@173757 by peter green

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> > not really :( if it was debian i'd just tell you to get the
> later CDs but
> > ubuntu doesn't have any later CDs
>
>
> Edgy Eft is the current release
sorry i should have been more clear by later CDs i meant numbered CDs containing sucessively less common packages. Debian has theese ubuntu does not.



2007\02\04@174446 by piclist.com

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Hi,

You probably only need debhelper to create a package that integrates
nicely with your ubuntu packaging system. But that's probably not required
for it to work, I suggest you try doing it without creating a .deb
package.

Also see this description, Method B:

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=190728

Disclaimer: I've never used Ubuntu;)

Bart

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, Denny Esterline wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2007\02\04@180524 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 2/5/07, Denny Esterline <.....firmwareKILLspamspam.....tds.net> wrote:
> All the web sites I've found say something to the effect of
> "just use apt-get install debhelper" which is fine, but doesn't work if you
> don't have network connectivity. Downloading debhelper directly lead me down
> a long and convoluted, seemingly endless dependency chain. So I've got a bit
> of a chicken and an egg problem, I need network to install package, I need
> package to install network - any suggestions?
>

Do you have a broadband connection? If not get a real hardware modem.
Winmodems are not good at all for Linux.

And this may sound discouraging but your Linux experience will not be
pleasant without a fast network connection. You will need to download
loads of packages and updates from time to time. With a dial-up
connection, the downloading process can be very frustrating or even
not possible.

I recently installed Fedora Core 6 (after downloading a 3GB+ DVD ISO)
and did the system update, the total downloading size for the updates
is abut 544MB.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2007\02\04@183058 by Denny Esterline

picon face
Unless I'm missunderstanding something (very likely) that's what I've done
to get this far.
is there some way to get it to tell me all of the dependant packages at
once? The real PITA so far has been rebooting to win to gat a package,
reboting to linux to install it only to find I'm missing something else.
-Denny



> Can you use apt-get to spit out a list of packages that are required,
> and then fetch all of them by hand? (PITA, I know.)
> - Marcel
>
> On 2/4/07, David VanHorn <EraseMEdvanhornspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmicrobrix.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > not really :( if it was debian i'd just tell you to get the later CDs
but
> > > ubuntu doesn't have any later CDs
> >
> >
> > Edgy Eft is the current release
> > --

2007\02\04@183455 by Denny Esterline

picon face
> > All the web sites I've found say something to the effect of
> > "just use apt-get install debhelper" which is fine, but doesn't work if
you
> > don't have network connectivity. Downloading debhelper directly lead me
down
> > a long and convoluted, seemingly endless dependency chain. So I've got a
bit
> > of a chicken and an egg problem, I need network to install package, I
need
> > package to install network - any suggestions?
> >
>
> Do you have a broadband connection? If not get a real hardware modem.
> Winmodems are not good at all for Linux.

So it would seem.

> And this may sound discouraging but your Linux experience will not be
> pleasant without a fast network connection. You will need to download
> loads of packages and updates from time to time. With a dial-up
> connection, the downloading process can be very frustrating or even
> not possible.
>
> I recently installed Fedora Core 6 (after downloading a 3GB+ DVD ISO)
> and did the system update, the total downloading size for the updates
> is abut 544MB.

That's about what I expect vista's SP1 to be :-)

-Denny

2007\02\04@184442 by peter green

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bouncesspamspam_OUTmit.edu [@spam@piclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu]On Behalf
> Of Denny Esterline
> Sent: 04 February 2007 23:31
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [OT] Linux question
>
>
> Unless I'm missunderstanding something (very likely) that's what I've done
> to get this far.
> is there some way to get it to tell me all of the dependant packages at
> once? The real PITA so far has been rebooting to win to gat a package,
> reboting to linux to install it only to find I'm missing something else.
iirc it should already be telling you all the direct dependencies, indirect dependencies can't be discovered without the packages that contain them.

you can also see the dependencies of packages on http://packages.ubuntu.com though obviously that wont tell you which ones you already have.



2007\02\04@222151 by Jake Anderson

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Denny Esterline wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Perhaps one slightly cheating way to do this would be to install vmware
in windows
create a new vmx type file and point it at that hard drive.
Boot your ubuntu install inside windows as vmware setup the network
adaptor in ubuntu and it'll be online.

2007\02\05@044837 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Xiaofan,

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 07:05:22 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

>...
> Do you have a broadband connection? If not get a real hardware modem.
> Winmodems are not good at all for Linux.

...or any other operating system - they're not even very good in Windows!  They are just a way to save hardware costs for the manufacturer, with no
technical benefit, and the big disadvantage that you're using CPU cycles to replace the missing hardware.

Cheers,



Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\02\05@052857 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 2/5/07, Howard Winter <KILLspamHDRWKILLspamspamh2org.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >...
> > get a real hardware modem.
> > Winmodems are not good at all for Linux.
>
> ...or any other operating system - they're not even very good in Windows!
> They are just a way to save hardware costs for the manufacturer, with no
> technical benefit, and the big disadvantage that you're using CPU cycles
> to replace the missing hardware.

Agreed. From year 1999 to year 2002, I was using a Celeron 400MHz PC
running Windows and Linux with a PCtel Winmodem. It can work on both
platforms but the performance is quite bad compare to a real serial port
based modem.

In year 2001, I started to use a 256k ADSL and never looked back at
Dial-up. Now I am using a 6Mbps Cable Modem connection. It is
not cheap to use here in Singapore (S$58 per month, about US$37)
but we can live without it. Even my parents back in a small
town in China are using broadband.

2007\02\05@072807 by Mauricio Giovagnini

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>> In year 2001, I started to use a 256k ADSL and never looked back at
>> Dial-up. Now I am using a 6Mbps Cable Modem connection. It is
>> not cheap to use here in Singapore (S$58 per month, about US$37)
>> but we can live without it. Even my parents back in a small
>> town in China are using broadband.



Xiaofan I didn't understand if its 58 or 37 american dollars per month but its even if its u$s 58 its the 30% of what
you will pay in argentina!!

Here a 512K connection is about 35 american dollars... now the competition between the broadband companies make prices go down for some months (the first months of the subscription) but after those months you pay $35.  And I live in the second biggest city of Argentina!! so , prices are lower on that kind of stuff.

Broadband connection , with cam and mic made living far from people's family an easier task :)




       

       
               
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2007\02\05@171812 by Daniel Serpell

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Hi!

On 2/4/07, Denny Esterline <RemoveMEfirmwareTakeThisOuTspamtds.net> wrote:
> So recent discussions here finally prompted me to get my hands dirty with
> Linux. I got a copy of Ubuntu 6.06 (dapper drake) and installed it on a
> separate hard drive. The install was smooth and I have what seems to be a
> stable desktop. Then I tried to get a dial up connection to my ISP...
>
[...]
> All the web sites I've found say something to the effect of
> "just use apt-get install debhelper" which is fine, but doesn't work if you
> don't have network connectivity.

Just type "apt-get install debhelper --print-uris". The --print-uris flags tells
apt-get to only list everything that you need to install this package, with
the full URL.

  Daniel.

2007\02\05@173433 by peter green

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> Just type "apt-get install debhelper --print-uris". The
> --print-uris flags tells
> apt-get to only list everything that you need to install this
> package, with
> the full URL.
afaict that will only work on a machine that has information about the internet sources cached, not a machine thats never been online.


2007\02\05@174825 by Nate Duehr

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On 2/5/07, peter green <spamBeGoneplugwashspamBeGonespamp10link.net> wrote:

> afaict that will only work on a machine that has information about the internet sources cached, not a machine thats never been online.

If I had a Ubuntu machine I could do it for him, but all I have is
stock Debian boxes.

But anyone could send him the URI's.

Nate

2007\02\05@175359 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
>
> In year 2001, I started to use a 256k ADSL and never looked back at
> Dial-up. Now I am using a 6Mbps Cable Modem connection. It is
> not cheap to use here in Singapore (S$58 per month, about US$37)
> but we can live without it. Even my parents back in a small
> town in China are using broadband.


That's almost exactly what we pay here in hometown indiana! :)

2007\02\05@191006 by Jeff Findley

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"David VanHorn" <TakeThisOuTdvanhornEraseMEspamspam_OUTmicrobrix.com> wrote in message
news:RemoveME25b178740702051453q620b47f1gbfc3da78f6f81b13spamTakeThisOuTmail.gmail.com...> > >
>>
>> In year 2001, I started to use a 256k ADSL and never looked back at
>> Dial-up. Now I am using a 6Mbps Cable Modem connection. It is
>> not cheap to use here in Singapore (S$58 per month, about US$37)
>> but we can live without it. Even my parents back in a small
>> town in China are using broadband.
>
>
> That's almost exactly what we pay here in hometown indiana! :)

Except my mom can't get broadband since she's several miles out of town
(Huntington Indiana).  Her house is literally surrounded by Indiana corn
fields.  Eventually they'll get broadband out to her, but until then, she
gets about a 50k connection through dial-up and digital satellite TV through
one of the old "big" dishes.

Jeff
--
   "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
    little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
    safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)



2007\02\05@213325 by Denny Esterline

picon face
Thanks to some help from this list I did finaly get the modem drivers to
load and connect. It was sill a PITA though and I'll be looking for a _real_
modem in the near future.

Thanks,
-Denny

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