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'[OT] Light running backward?'
2006\05\12@083051 by David VanHorn

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www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=2544

--
Feel the power of the dark side!  Atmel AVR

2006\05\12@085131 by Tony Smith

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>
> http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=2544
>
> --


Does that mean I can hear satanic messages on my CDs now?

Tony

2006\05\12@090344 by David VanHorn

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>
>
> Does that mean I can hear satanic messages on my CDs now?



You mean they weren't working before? :)


--
> Feel the power of the dark side!  Atmel AVR

2006\05\12@102533 by Rich Graziano

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If you have one of those CDs :-))

----- Original Message -----
From: "David VanHorn" <spam_OUTdvanhornTakeThisOuTspammicrobrix.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <.....piclistKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Light running backward?


{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\05\12@120942 by Tony Smith

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I can see St. Pepper Lonely Hearts Band from here.  I should play that!

Tony

Well, and Metallic's black album, Little Earthquakes by Tori Amos, Chuck
Berry, Johnny Cash & and Concrete Blonde.  Could be a long night...



> {Original Message removed}

2006\05\12@144516 by Nate Duehr

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Tony Smith wrote:
>> http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=2544
>>
>> --
>
>
> Does that mean I can hear satanic messages on my CDs now?
>
> Tony

Didn't you see this on the lable?

All Satanic Messages, Copyright 2006, RIAA -- All Rights Reserved.

;-)

Nate

2006\05\13@015958 by Vitaliy

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"David VanHorn"


> http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=2544

I don't get it.

So this faster-than-light, backward-traveling pulse only works in
erbium-laced fiber?

""Einstein said information can't travel faster than light, and in this
case, as with all fast-light experiments, no information is truly moving
faster than light," says Boyd."

What does Mr. Boyd mean? You shine the laser onto the near end of the fiber,
which creates a backward-going pulse on the opposite end -- how is that not
transmitting information?

Vitaliy

2006\05\17@143933 by Mike Hord

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The light is what travels, I guess.  You're not transmitting info
faster than light, but speeding light up.  Maybe?

Mike H.

> I don't get it.

> What does Mr. Boyd mean? You shine the laser onto the near end of the fiber,
> which creates a backward-going pulse on the opposite end -- how is that not
> transmitting information?

2006\05\17@161014 by Lindy Mayfield

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Someone posted this link a while back.  I only made it to part 2 so I don't know if he answers this or not. (-:

http://www.vega.org.uk/video/subseries/8

I'm not sure if what you ask falls into this category, but sometimes I wonder what is "information".  Like there is this thing where a particle can turn at the same time as another particle anywhere in the universe.  So in my cat sized brain I would think that you could use that somehow.  But for some quantum reason you can't.

So is it "information" only if you can use it or measure it?

{Original Message removed}

2006\05\17@192838 by Vitaliy

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Lindy Mayfield wrote:
>
> So is it "information" only if you can use it or measure it?> The light is
> what travels, I guess.  You're not transmitting info
> faster than light, but speeding light up.  Maybe?
>
> Mike H.
[snip]
> I'm not sure if what you ask falls into this category, but sometimes I
> wonder what is "information".  Like there is this thing where a particle
> can turn at the same time as another particle anywhere in the universe.
> So in my cat sized brain I would think that you could use that somehow.
> But for some quantum reason you can't.

I like this definition of information: information is anything that reduces
uncertainty. The smallest unit of information is a bit, of course not only
in the computer sense.

Best regards,

Vitaliy

2006\05\22@090424 by Robert Ammerman

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> I like this definition of information: information is anything that
> reduces
> uncertainty. The smallest unit of information is a bit, of course not only
> in the computer sense.

Actually, sub-bit units of information are common, both in and out of
computer science!

I believe, for example, that knowledge of the probability of an on/off
condition can be thought of as sub-bit.

Also, see 'arithmetic coding' for information on compression schemes that
depend dramatically on sub-bit information.


Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

2006\05\22@124302 by Peter

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On Thu, 18 May 2006, Robert Ammerman wrote:

>> I like this definition of information: information is anything that reduces
>> uncertainty. The smallest unit of information is a bit, of course not only
>> in the computer sense.
>
> Actually, sub-bit units of information are common, both in and out of
> computer science!
>
> I believe, for example, that knowledge of the probability of an on/off
> condition can be thought of as sub-bit.

I think that the knowledge of any information about a bit represents at
least one *more* bit.

Peter

2006\05\23@123454 by Vitaliy

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Robert Ammerman wrote:
> Actually, sub-bit units of information are common, both in and out of
> computer science!
>
> I believe, for example, that knowledge of the probability of an on/off
> condition can be thought of as sub-bit.
>
> Also, see 'arithmetic coding' for information on compression schemes that
> depend dramatically on sub-bit information.

I think it's time once again for me to take my foot out of my mouth...

However, can't you think of the knowledge of the probability of an on/off
condition as answering a yes/no question (whether a value is within a
certain interval)?

Best regards,

Vitaliy


2006\05\23@144559 by Bill & Pookie

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So far information has two dimensions, state and time, would location be a
third?    "X marks the spot" for buried treasure would be an example of
this.

Bill

{Original Message removed}

2006\05\23@222106 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Bill & Pookie wrote:

> So far information has two dimensions, state and time, would location be a
> third?    "X marks the spot" for buried treasure would be an example of
> this.

If I understand you correctly, it seems that location (the description of a
location) is just a form of what you call "state".

I think it's a rather complex thing to try to measure information in
general. What we generally call "information" only becomes "informative" in
a specific context. How to measure the amount of information in the
context? It takes about 10 bits to store any location on this planet with 1
degree resolution, but this "information" requires a lot of context to
actually lead you to the spot it describes. How many bits are in the
context?

Gerhard

2006\05\24@210020 by Bill & Pookie

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Guess I was trying to say something profound, but missed the mark a bit.

Like Guich Koock would say when someone asked him how he got his name, "My
father raised dogs and by the time I came along, all the good names were
taken."  Would have liked to have had  time as my deminsion, but that was
allready taken.

Can you seperate the content from the information?  Does the information
contain the one  bit (yes/no) answer as well as the three page question?

How do we reference information so we can find it?  Why doesn't Google use
the Duwey Decimal Syatem?

Bill

{Original Message removed}

2006\05\25@065445 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Bill & Pookie wrote:

> Can you seperate the content from the information?  Does the information
> contain the one  bit (yes/no) answer as well as the three page question?

IMO, when speaking about information content, no and yes, respectively. A
bit without doesn't convey any useful information at all, besides that in
that specific transmission one state was of one kind. To be able to put any
information into that, you need to have the "question".

> How do we reference information so we can find it?  

Now you're getting really profound :)

> Why doesn't Google use the Duwey Decimal Syatem?

Someone would have to classify content manually. I believe that would make
Google either very "thin" or very expensive.

Besides, I'm not sure the system would be any better than keywords,
especially given the type of content. What do you like about the system?

Gerhard

2006\05\26@070314 by Bill & Pookie

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerhard Fiedler" <listsspamKILLspamconnectionbrazil.com>
To: <.....piclistKILLspamspam.....mit.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:54 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Light running backward?


{Quote hidden}

When I was in the stacks looking for books on chess, I was also near books
on backgammon and mah jong.  So liked the way simular topics were neghbors
and could learn new stuff.  Also at that time, considered the Dewey Decimal
System to be universal.

But google is great for finding new things that are unrelated.  Serindippidy
on steroids.

Bill

> --

2006\05\27@110900 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Bill & Pookie wrote:

> When I was in the stacks looking for books on chess, I was also near books
> on backgammon and mah jong.  So liked the way simular topics were neghbors
> and could learn new stuff.  

The problem with any such system is that it has only one dimension of
similarity. Most topics have several dimensions, and they get lost. You
were looking a book about chess and other, similar table games are indeed
similar. But you also could have looked for a book about chess strategy,
and topics like martial arts (some good material about strategy), foreign
politics (strategic planning is an important part of a good foreign
policy), AI (research about formalizing strategic planning), chess programs
(actual implementations of formal strategies), biographies of chess masters
(which possibly contain some general information about strategy, especially
when it's an autobiography) and other such quite interesting and similar
topics would have been far, far away in the system.


> Also at that time, considered the Dewey Decimal System to be universal.

It's a bit more global than the World Series <g>, but apparently not the
only player in town outside the USA. See e.g. http://www.udcc.org/

Gerhard

2006\05\27@123532 by Dave Lag

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Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
> Bill & Pookie wrote:
>
>
>>When I was in the stacks looking for books on chess,......
>
>>Also at that time, considered the Dewey Decimal System to be universal.
>
> It's a bit more global than the World Series <g>, but apparently not the
> only player in town outside the USA. See e.g. http://www.udcc.org/
>
> Gerhard
>


Very interesting, had my wife take a quick look- seems to an
extension/standardization to the LC (Library of Congress)?
D

2006\05\29@014049 by Bill & Pookie

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerhard Fiedler" <EraseMElistsspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTconnectionbrazil.com>
To: <piclistspamspam_OUTmit.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Light running backward?


{Quote hidden}

Wow,  banks and dairy farmers share an interest in queing theory for their
depositers.  If they used the key word in their publication then google
could discover both lines of information.  Just the title of a book can be
both informative or missleading, such as "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
Maintenance".

I think that the search engines developed so fast and was much better than
what precedded them that now the net may suffer with the net resources they
use collecting the information and the impossibile amount of information
they return for a search.  But they are intrenched and might remain the
standard for a long time.

But I do live them.

Bill

>> Also at that time, considered the Dewey Decimal System to be universal.
>
> It's a bit more global than the World Series <g>, but apparently not the
> only player in town outside the USA. See e.g. http://www.udcc.org/
>
> Gerhard
>
> --

2006\05\30@073059 by Howard Winter

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> Why doesn't Google use the Duwey Decimal Syatem?

Because that classifies whole books, and Google searches web pages.  A book is generally on one topic, or can
usually be classified as such, but a web page could easily span a dozen different unrelated Dewey
classifications - just think how many things someone's Blog might cover!  And there would be some pages for
which Dewey has no classification, because nobody writes books on it (charity appeals, job adverts, etc).

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\05\30@121026 by Dave Lag

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Howard Winter wrote:
>>Why doesn't Google use the Duwey Decimal Syatem?
>
>
> Because that classifies whole books, and Google searches web pages.  A book is generally on one topic, or can
> usually be classified as such, but a web page could easily span a dozen different unrelated Dewey
> classifications - just think how many things someone's Blog might cover!  And there would be some pages for
> which Dewey has no classification, because nobody writes books on it (charity appeals, job adverts, etc).
>
> Cheers,
 > Howard Winter
> St.Albans, England
>

The LC is way better - more specific for techy stuff IMHO

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