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'[OT] Legal woes'
2000\01\05@144044 by Andy Kunz

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Want to get arrested?  See what happened to SuperCircuits (one of the
companies mentioned on this list frequently).

       http://www.2600.com/news/1999/1218.html

Andy

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2000\01\05@145556 by M. Adam Davis

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Same thing happened to Ramsey Electronics.  You can go to
slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/01/04/2316228&mode=nocomment
to read the owner's account of the FBI raid on Ramsey (yes, it was
actually a raid, like what you would expect if Ramsey were selling
drugs), as well as read or participate in an ongoing discussion of the
event.

Very interesting.  They are mainly targetting devices which are already
built into deceptive housings (clocks, smoke alarms, etc) as they /are/
illegal, they are also hitting devices which are advertised as devices
to be used in deceptive settings (ie, radio transmitter that can be
hidden anywhere! or Pinhole cameras, make your own hidden cameras!).

It appears as though they've taken many of the kit forms of FM
transmitters and such as well...

This is a hotly debated issue on Slashdot, one side saying the feds took
transmitters which are used by boy scouts and schools, and ignoring the
hidden mic and camera part; the other side citing various criminal codes
and their own privacy issues (ie, I don't want my employer to be able to
get one of the clocks nd place it in my work area, and technically it
/is/ illegal to manufacture/sell/ship these items, nevermind actually
using the for criminal activities.)

-Adam

engineers never lie; we just approximate the truth.

Andy Kunz wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\01\05@161644 by Dan Larson

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We had *all* better watch out for the FEDs!

PICs and BASIC Stamps just *might* be used to make
timers for terrorist bombs!

Time for another "Tea Party" ?  Next time, we should
throw the *politicians* in the river and *drink* the tea!


On Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:54:43 -0500, M. Adam Davis wrote:

>Same thing happened to Ramsey Electronics.  You can go to
>slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/01/04/2316228&mode=nocomment
>to read the owner's account of the FBI raid on Ramsey (yes, it was
>actually a raid, like what you would expect if Ramsey were selling
>drugs), as well as read or participate in an ongoing discussion of the
>event.

2000\01\05@163348 by Randy A.

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Andy:

I would say that at some time or other, we all might fit the description and
be subject to those same interpretations.

RRA

2000\01\05@165713 by Agnes en Henk Tobbe

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>Want to get arrested?  See what happened to SuperCircuits (one of the
>companies mentioned on this list frequently).
>
>        http://www.2600.com/news/1999/1218.html
>
>Andy

A Linda Trip case was mentioned. What was that about? Never heard of it.
is there a rule in US law that make the possesion of *spy-equipment* an
offense or should criminal intent be proven? Any US lawyers amongst the
pickers. it sounds like commie hunting all over again.
VK2GWK - HENK

2000\01\05@171204 by Jinx

face picon face
Linda Tripp secretly taped the conversations she had with Monika
Lewinsky about her (ML's) relationship with Bill Clinton. Then it all
went public...... After being in the news for at least a year surprised
you don't know about it. The rest of us got pretty sick and tired of it.

Jinx

>
> A Linda Trip case was mentioned. What was that about? Never heard of it.
> is there a rule in US law that make the possesion of *spy-equipment* an
> offense or should criminal intent be proven? Any US lawyers amongst the
> pickers. it sounds like commie hunting all over again.
> VK2GWK - HENK
>

2000\01\05@191506 by Harold M Hallikainen

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       There was a Russian spy recently in the news for using a listening
device to hear what's going on in the state department.  Was it a Ramsey
kit?

Harold


On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:09:44 +1300 Jinx <EraseMEjoecolquittspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTCLEAR.NET.NZ> writes:
{Quote hidden}

FCC Rules Online at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules
Lighting control for theatre and television at http://www.dovesystems.com

2000\01\06@101447 by Randy Glenn

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Gee, if the US is getting rid of everything that could be used to do Very Bad Things, maybe they
should get rid of:

Combustible Fuel
Computers
CD-Recordables
Model Rockets
Amateur Radio
Radio Scanners
Every other country on the face of the Earth
Individual thought and inspiration
Matches
Lighters
Laser Pointers
Magnifying Glasses (you can burn stuff with 'em!)
Fire-fighting robots (they make mistake an agent performing a raid as needing to be extinguished!)

Hey, if they can't trust honest businesspeople, maybe they should just lock every citizen in jail,
where they can keep a close eye on them.

END RANT.

-Randy
http://i.am/PICxpert - PICxpertspamspam_OUTtechie.com
ICQ Nickname: PICxpert - Fax: (208) 330-3630

{Original Message removed}

2000\01\06@130211 by David Duley

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On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:12:25 -0500, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

How about that Day-trader that went postal a few months ago and killed
his entire family with a hammer and then a few of his coworkers with a
gun.  I personally think we need more hammer-control legislation!

Dave Duley

2000\01\06@132845 by Howard McGinnis

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>
>gun.  I personally think we need more hammer-control legislation!
>

How about a PIC embedded in the handle of the hammer? Maybe the hammer head
could be used as a proximity sensor to ensure that only metal objects, such
as nails and car engines were to be struck? I could use a hammer controller
that would do mid course corrections to hit the nail instead of my thumb....

Howard

Howard McGinnis
@spam@hmcginniKILLspamspamdigital.net
Electronic Visions, Inc.
1650 Barrett Drive
Rockledge FL 32955
(407) 632-7530
http://ddi.digital.net/~hmcginni
KILLspammcginnisKILLspamspame-visions.com

2000\01\06@134127 by Sean Breheny

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How 'bout a laser-guided hammer retrofit kit? Yes, a seeker head and fin
kit that could be attached to a normal, dumb hammer. You then just need a
laser designator. Designate the nail and flail away, every stroke will hit ;-)

Sean

At 01:25 PM 1/6/00 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

| Sean Breheny
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM
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2000\01\06@154150 by Mark Willis

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Randy Glenn wrote:
>
> Gee, if the US is getting rid of everything that could be used to do Very Bad Things, maybe they
> should get rid of:
> ...

PICs;
Atmels;
EPRoms;
Watches;  (Had to laugh at the news medias' reporting that terr who got
caught recently, who had digital watches with some backup - they called
these "sophisticated" timing devices;  Cheap, YES, but sorta old
technology!)
Old Files (Company here tempers 'em, grinds them into SOLID knives, then
re-hardens them - Good for hacking an aircraft panel open if you need to
on a search, which was why I bought mine <G>)
Wood (Figure-4 deadfalls are nasty!);
Bridges (Drunk people drive off 'em);
Water (People drown in it daily!);
Food (People eat too much and it's bad for their health!)...

> Hey, if they can't trust honest businesspeople, maybe they should just lock every citizen in jail,
> where they can keep a close eye on them.
>
> END RANT.
>
> -Randy
> http://i.am/PICxpert - RemoveMEPICxpertspamTakeThisOuTtechie.com
> ICQ Nickname: PICxpert - Fax: (208) 330-3630

IMO they've gone off the deep end, yet again - From an administration
who won't prosecute convicted felons who try to buy firearms, knowing
that that is another felony, what would you expect but for them to pick
on "dangerous" people like Ramsey Electronics and other such "obviously
bad people"?  Absolutely astonishing, IMO.

 Mark

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

2000\01\06@174928 by Randy A.

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Here on the Hammer-Control Legislation, makes about as much sense as all the
other "Control" legislation.  When will they learn you can't "idiot proof"
the country?


Randy A.

2000\01\06@190353 by Rob

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*SNIP*

>
> IMO they've gone off the deep end, yet again - From an administration
> who won't prosecute convicted felons who try to buy firearms, knowing
> that that is another felony, what would you expect but for them to pick
> on "dangerous" people like Ramsey Electronics and other such "obviously
> bad people"?  Absolutely astonishing, IMO.
>
>   Mark
>
> --
> I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
> (For private individuals at cost; ask.)

WEll, what about all these news agencies that use all these hidden cameras
for all these sting and expose' pieces that you see on 20-20 and all the
other "news-glam" garbage?

Then, all the drug busts that are made with these little hidden cameras need
to be thrown out, and the agents who used them need to be thrown in..

Rob

2000\01\06@212319 by Andy Kunz
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At 01:25 PM 1/6/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>gun.  I personally think we need more hammer-control legislation!
>>
>
>How about a PIC embedded in the handle of the hammer? Maybe the hammer head
>could be used as a proximity sensor to ensure that only metal objects, such
>as nails and car engines were to be struck? I could use a hammer controller
>that would do mid course corrections to hit the nail instead of my thumb....

Those would be outlawed, too, because they could be used to target the
steel plate in the heads of these politicians and such who've had lobotomies.

Andy

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2000\01\07@020527 by Dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,
you forget even spectacles, arteficial fertilizers, any kind of drugs,
ropes, needles, guns, knives, bones (they can be VERY hard!), etc. Maybe,
humans should be also prohibited following this logic!

Imre


On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Randy Glenn wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2000\01\07@045818 by PJH

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Howard McGinnis wrote:

> >
> >gun.  I personally think we need more hammer-control legislation!
> >
>
> How about a PIC embedded in the handle of the hammer? Maybe the hammer head
> could be used as a proximity sensor to ensure that only metal objects, such
> as nails and car engines were to be struck? I could use a hammer controller
> that would do mid course corrections to hit the nail instead of my thumb....

But that'd probably require miniature thruster-rockets mounted on the hammer's
shaft - but then *they'd* have to be banned...

PJH

2000\01\07@094805 by Lawrence Lile

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You cannot idiot-proof a country that is run by idiots.


-----Original Message-----
From: Randy A. <RemoveMECnc002spam_OUTspamKILLspamAOL.COM>
To: RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <EraseMEPICLISTspamspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Legal woes


>Here on the Hammer-Control Legislation, makes about as much sense as all
the
>other "Control" legislation.  When will they learn you can't "idiot proof"
>the country?
>
>
>Randy A.

2000\01\07@190705 by Jinx

face picon face
> You can't legislate for idiots in a country run by idiots

*29 have been accused of spousal abuse
*7 have been arrested for fraud
*19 have been accused of writing bad checks
*117 have bankrupted at least two businesses
*3 have been arrested for assault
*71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
*14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
*8 have been arrested for shoplifting
*21 are current defendants in lawsuits
*In 1998 alone, 84 were stopped for drunk driving

It's the 535 members of your United States Congress. The same group that
perpetually cranks out hundreds upon hundreds of new laws designed to
keep the rest of us/you in line.

2000\01\07@192113 by Andy Kunz

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>It's the 535 members of your United States Congress. The same group that
>perpetually cranks out hundreds upon hundreds of new laws designed to
>keep the rest of us/you in line.

They aren't as much of a problem as the folks who are non-elected officials
in the various departments.  They aren't accountable to anybody, really,
and have free roam over our rights.

Andy

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2000\01\07@212149 by Mark Willis

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Howard McGinnis wrote:
> >gun.  I personally think we need more hammer-control legislation!
> >
>
> How about a PIC embedded in the handle of the hammer? Maybe the hammer head
> could be used as a proximity sensor to ensure that only metal objects, such
> as nails and car engines were to be struck? I could use a hammer controller
> that would do mid course corrections to hit the nail instead of my thumb....
>
> Howard

Great, now all a psycho has to do is tape a nail onto the end of the
hammer, and they can hammer said nail into my head.  Or just pick up a
rock and tie a rope net onto it & swing said weapon.

Doesn't it make better sense to punish the person doing the objected-to
ACTION, instead of the Tool?  <G>

 Mark

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

2000\01\07@212559 by Mark Willis

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Rob wrote:
{Quote hidden}

But, if Government does a bad thing (something that if you or I did,
we'd be "languishing" in prison for, for years), that's a Good thing,
isn't it?  Because Government Can Do No Wrong, and Might Makes Right?
Um...

It all sounds very 1984-think to me.  Prosecution by the emotions of the
politician of the minute.

 Mark

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

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