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'[OT] It is the time to buy laser printer and dump '
2008\02\03@054834 by Xiaofan Chen

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Today we went to Sim Lim Square (Singapore's IT Mall) and found out that
Laser printers becomes really cheap now. One of Samsung's mono Laser
printer cost S$119 (US$80+). Even color Laser printer become much
cheaper now.

We ended up buying a Samsung SCX-4200 printer/copier/scanner (mono
printing and color scanning) for S$235 (about US$160) with a free Samsung
1GB MP3 player.

Laser Printers from HP/Canon and even Fuji Xerox are of similar price
range. Maybe it is the time to dump the inkjets.

Xiaofan

2008\02\03@060203 by Dario Greggio

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Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> Laser Printers from HP/Canon and even Fuji Xerox are of similar price
> range. Maybe it is the time to dump the inkjets.

Definitely it is, I've been stating the same over the recent 2-3 years,
since Samsung made its first Mono Laser around 70 EUR (to resellers).

InkJets are only useful to print photos (dpi is higher than Color LAser
and quality is inherently higher by now) but in the end I always
discourage it: it's a mess and having them printed in a store is cheaper
and better.

--
Ciao, Dario

2008\02\03@060400 by Picbits Sales

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I agree

I bought a colour laser printer for £100 ($200) the other day and while its
not up to the standard of some of the bigger machines its not bad.

Dom
{Original Message removed}

2008\02\03@063018 by David Meiklejohn

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu] On
> Behalf Of Xiaofan Chen
>
> Today we went to Sim Lim Square (Singapore's IT Mall) and found out
> that
> Laser printers becomes really cheap now. One of Samsung's mono Laser
> printer cost S$119 (US$80+). Even color Laser printer become much
> cheaper now.

Yes - I have an HP LaserJet 1020 - it's a great little b&w printer, much
faster, better quality output, and cheaper to run than an inkjet.  And I use
it to make PCBs (toner transfer).  I originally paid A$199 (about US$150 at
the time) for mine, but they are now going for A$129 (US$115).  Amazing
value for money.  I've been using it fairly heavily for a year, and it's
held up really well - I don't begrudge the fall in price.  That happens.

What does bother me is that the same store that I saw the printer in for
A$129, had the toner cartridge for sale for A$149.  So when I run out of
toner, it's actually cheaper for me to buy a new printer, with toner
included, than to buy the toner separately!  And the printer does not come
with a low-capacity "starter" cartridge - it's the real deal.

I know that's how it is with printers these days - make a loss on the
printer, rake it in on consumables - but it's just not right...


David
http://www.gooligum.com.au



2008\02\03@063819 by Apptech

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> Re: [OT] It is the time to buy laser printer and dump the
> inkjets

Not for me it isn't.

> Xiaofan Chen wrote:
>
>> Laser Printers from HP/Canon and even Fuji Xerox are of
>> similar price
>> range. Maybe it is the time to dump the inkjets.
>
> Definitely it is,

For many values of definitely
If you REALLY want to reduce inkjet costs and increase
convenience and do large volumes then a continuous inking
system works marvels.

eg these people

       http://www.rihac.com.au/

sell such systems in Australia. They claijm that they have
mixed and matched parts to make their's the best in the
world. That's as may be but they work well - I'm a happy
customer. I bought one for about $150 with 5 x 100 ml ink.
It's actually no causing problems that are probably of my
making (don't let the ink tanks go dry and don't cross the
beams or there will be marshmellow everywhere ...). So good
though that I've just ordered another and sometime [tm] hope
to get the other working agin on another printer.

> I've been stating the same over the recent 2-3 years,
> since Samsung made its first Mono Laser around 70 EUR (to
> resellers).

Cheap 'LASERs often have refills catridges that cost more
than the 'LASER.


> InkJets are only useful to print photos

See above.
Good for all sorts with cheap ink.
Being able to print reports in duplex with colour diagrams
is a great capability.
Duplex colour LASERs get a bit dear and quality is down, as
yuou say. Speed is up. Toner costs are at the ransom cost of
their choice.

> (dpi is higher than Color LAser
> and quality is inherently higher by now) but in the end I
> always

try to change that to "usually discourage it for most
people"

> discourage it: it's a mess and having them printed in a
> store is cheaper
> and better.

CISs removes the mess. It's cheaper than stor prints.
Quality can be extremely good. You don't get the sore
software trying to 'interpret' your print.

I buy good enough budget A4 170 gsm photo paper (DSE XM7105)
at $NZ0.28/sheet in 50's and cut it in 4 to give effectively
6x4 at 7 cents/print. Ink costs are negligible with CISS.
And an A4 colour print for about $NZ0.35 is hard to find
commercially.

That paper is good enough for almost everything and I use
whatever suits for the very best prints.



       Russell

2008\02\03@065238 by Dario Greggio

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Apptech wrote:

> For many values of definitely[...]

Hi Russell, I agree on this more or less:
but I (customers) have always had troubles with refilled ink cartridges
(and usually complaining on the Software Guy i.e. me :)

and... inkjets are slow, tend to dry ink if not used for a while (thus
requiring time and more ink to re-start)...

--
Ciao, Dario

2008\02\03@075755 by Apptech

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> Apptech wrote:
>
>> For many values of definitely[...]
>
> Hi Russell, I agree on this more or less:
> but I (customers) have always had troubles with refilled
> ink cartridges
> (and usually complaining on the Software Guy i.e. me :)
>
> and... inkjets are slow, tend to dry ink if not used for a
> while (thus
> requiring time and more ink to re-start)...

Agree. But continuous inking, once set up, solves all the
usual problems except speed. And anyone who goes to the
effort of getting it is not liable to have low volume
problems :-)


       Russell

2008\02\03@083842 by Moses McKnight

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I've been using a brother 5250DN for about a year now and love it.
Built in duplex, built in ethernet networking, 30 ppm and 1200 dpi
printing.  I mostly use 600 dpi though.  I do a lot of printing and it
has not had a glitch yet.  Works perfectly with linux and I get 7000
page toner cartriges for $40 including shipping.  The printer cost me
$200 brand new from amazon.com with free shipping.

I've been using laser for a number of years now and would never look
back.  Inkjet costs far more to run and I had many more problems with them.

Moses

Apptech wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\02\03@094953 by Apptech

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> I've been using a brother 5250DN for about a year now and
> love it.
> Built in duplex, built in ethernet networking, 30 ppm and
> 1200 dpi
> printing.  I mostly use 600 dpi though.  I do a lot of
> printing and it
> has not had a glitch yet.  Works perfectly with linux and
> I get 7000
> page toner cartriges for $40 including shipping.  The
> printer cost me
> $200 brand new from amazon.com with free shipping.

"Horses for courses".
The 7000 pages will typically be at 5% cover, which is fine
for mainly text use.
Drum cost is about 0.5c/page , probably at 5% ?

But its photos are liable to look a bit grey and colourless
:-)

> I've been using laser for a number of years now and would
> never look
> back.  Inkjet costs far more to run and I had many more
> problems with them.

I too had many problems with inkjet printers - until I got
the continuous inking system. A LASER printer has no hope of
competing with the inkjet *for my purposes*.

ie absolute statements, as with all religious topics, often
tend to be misleading :-)



       Russell






2008\02\03@102248 by Paul Hutchinson

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu On Behalf Of Moses McKnight
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 8:38 AM
>
> I've been using a brother 5250DN for about a year now and love it.
> Built in duplex, built in ethernet networking, 30 ppm and 1200 dpi
> printing.  I mostly use 600 dpi though.  I do a lot of printing and it
> has not had a glitch yet.  Works perfectly with linux and I get 7000
> page toner cartriges for $40 including shipping.  The printer cost me
> $200 brand new from amazon.com with free shipping.
>
> I've been using laser for a number of years now and would never look
> back.  Inkjet costs far more to run and I had many more problems
> with them.
>
I second this recommendation, I bought a Brother HL-5250DN in October 2006
and it works very well. I chose it because the cost per page was the lowest
of any brand at the time due to the reasonably priced toner cartridges.

Paul Hutch

> Moses

2008\02\03@105455 by Chris Smolinski

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>  > -----Original Message-----
>>  From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam.....mit.edu On Behalf Of Moses McKnight
>>  Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 8:38 AM
>>
>>  I've been using a brother 5250DN for about a year now and love it.
>>  Built in duplex, built in ethernet networking, 30 ppm and 1200 dpi
>>  printing.  I mostly use 600 dpi though.  I do a lot of printing and it
>>  has not had a glitch yet.  Works perfectly with linux and I get 7000
>>  page toner cartriges for $40 including shipping.  The printer cost me
>>  $200 brand new from amazon.com with free shipping.
>>
>>  I've been using laser for a number of years now and would never look
>>  back.  Inkjet costs far more to run and I had many more problems
>>  with them.
>>
>I second this recommendation, I bought a Brother HL-5250DN in October 2006
>and it works very well. I chose it because the cost per page was the lowest
>of any brand at the time due to the reasonably priced toner cartridges.

I'll third it. I bought a HL-5250DN several months ago, after my
previous laser printed started showing signs of old age. I've had
laser printers since the late 1980s (started with a TI microlaser 35
which lasted an incredibly long time, and cost the then vast sum of
around $2k), and managed to mostly avoid the whole ink jet printer
fiasco, other than an HP color inkjet I bought to print some labels
and such. Horrible experience, the cartridges would clog all the
time, and they cost more than a new printer.

--

---
Chris Smolinski
Black Cat Systems
http://www.blackcatsystems.com

2008\02\03@125404 by Neil Cherry

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Chris Smolinski wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I went along the same line but with the single sided Brother
HL-2070N ($100). It sits quietly generating no heat (a big problem
in my computer room) when not in use. It's not in use most of the
time and I don't have to worry about dried up ink. It tends to
be used a lot all at once then sits for a few weeks. I use both sides
of the paper so I don't worry about waste (I recycle cover sheets
from work too, free draft paper ;-). My printer gets about 1500 pgs
/toner roll and 12000 pgs/drum (it's a two piece system).

I still have access to an inkjet but that cartridge gets pulled,
put into a lunch bag and the air sucked out so I can make it
last a bit longer. Not so sure how well that works.

--
Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry       ncherryspamspam_OUTlinuxha.com
http://www.linuxha.com/                         Main site
http://linuxha.blogspot.com/                    My HA Blog
Author of:            Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

2008\02\03@163015 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 06:01 AM 2/3/2008, you wrote:
>Xiaofan Chen wrote:
>
> > Laser Printers from HP/Canon and even Fuji Xerox are of similar price
> > range. Maybe it is the time to dump the inkjets.
>
>Definitely it is, I've been stating the same over the recent 2-3 years,
>since Samsung made its first Mono Laser around 70 EUR (to resellers).
>
>InkJets are only useful to print photos (dpi is higher than Color LAser
>and quality is inherently higher by now) but in the end I always
>discourage it: it's a mess and having them printed in a store is cheaper
>and better.

It would be nice if there was a decent tabloid size
(drawing B size, 11.5 x 17") color laser printer for less than 15x-30x the
price of the least expensive color laser printers. A lot of schematics and
drawings are much better on B, C or D size "plots". Wide-carriage may be the
only niche left for the inkjets. They are used a lot for *very* wide carriage
work (3 or 4 meters) and I don't expect that to change anytime soon.

>Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
@spam@speffKILLspamspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com



2008\02\03@165918 by Robin Abbott

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I have just picked up a second hand (but works fine) Samsung CLP-500 for £16
($30 or so) from eBay. Great except it needs 4 new toner cartridges - total
cost of 4 new Samsung cartridges is £280, or over $500. I can get
remanufactured but even then the cost will 6 times what I paid !

Hence not quite so good as it looks to buy a cheap laser.


Robin Abbott
Forest Electronics - Home of WIZ-C ANSI C Compiler for PIC's with RAD Front
end
KILLspamrobin.abbottKILLspamspamfored.co.uk
http://www.fored.co.uk


{Original Message removed}

2008\02\04@161454 by alan smith

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you mean its time to dump my Centronix dot matrix and my Juki daisywheel printers?  I'm not sure I can part with them...just yet  :-)

Chris Smolinski <RemoveMEcsmolinskiTakeThisOuTspamblackcatsystems.com> wrote:  > > {Original Message removed}

2008\02\04@174413 by Rolf

face picon face
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> Today we went to Sim Lim Square (Singapore's IT Mall) and found out that
> Laser printers becomes really cheap now. One of Samsung's mono Laser
> printer cost S$119 (US$80+). Even color Laser printer become much
> cheaper now.
>
> We ended up buying a Samsung SCX-4200 printer/copier/scanner (mono
> printing and color scanning) for S$235 (about US$160) with a free Samsung
> 1GB MP3 player.
>
> Laser Printers from HP/Canon and even Fuji Xerox are of similar price
> range. Maybe it is the time to dump the inkjets.
>
> Xiaofan
>  
Just as an aside, I love my Epson Dot-Matrix printer.... with
continuous-feed paper.

I have it hooked up to my linux server/firewall in the basement. I have
syslogd set up to print major errors and some security logs to the
printer. If there were ever a disk failure, or someone were to hack in
to my machine and 'corrupt' the logs I don't think they will be able to
rewind the printer and 'modify' that historical account.

It is really useful (and this is why I set it up) for catching kernel
panics which would otherwise hang the machine without being able to save
the logs to disk... For a time some years ago I was running a SMP linux
box with some uncommon RAID hardware that had very Alpha support.

Anyways, line-printing is the perfect solution to it, and no 'current'
printers out there can dump data one line at a time....

all depends on your POV.

getting consumables for it is getting expensive now too though....

Rolf

2008\02\04@181515 by Marcel Duchamp

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Rolf wrote:

> Just as an aside, I love my Epson Dot-Matrix printer.... with
> continuous-feed paper.
>
> I have it hooked up to my linux server/firewall in the basement. I have
> syslogd set up to print major errors and some security logs to the
> printer. If there were ever a disk failure, or someone were to hack in
> to my machine and 'corrupt' the logs I don't think they will be able to
> rewind the printer and 'modify' that historical account.
>
> Anyways, line-printing is the perfect solution to it, and no 'current'
> printers out there can dump data one line at a time....
>
> getting consumables for it is getting expensive now too though....

Here's where a good spot is for a flash card.  If your system can print
to an RS232 port, hang a PIC out there that writes to a flash card - MMC
or SD, etc.

What's your paper hold? Something like 60 lines per page with 72
chars/line or there abouts?  At just under 5K bytes per page, each gig
of flash could hold about 1/4 million pages worth of logs... of course,
you don't get to hear the satisfying brrrraaapppppppp! every time the
print head does it's thing.

2008\02\04@182508 by peter green

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> Just as an aside, I love my Epson Dot-Matrix printer.... with
> continuous-feed paper.
>
> I have it hooked up to my linux server/firewall in the basement. I have
> syslogd set up to print major errors and some security logs to the
> printer. If there were ever a disk failure, or someone were to hack in
> to my machine and 'corrupt' the logs I don't think they will be able to
> rewind the printer and 'modify' that historical account.
>  
Some epson printers can rewind the paper, you can't delete whats already
printed but you can print over it in all black. You would probablly get
a paper jam if you tried to rewind more than a page though.



2008\02\05@201918 by SM Ling

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>
> Just as an aside, I love my Epson Dot-Matrix printer.... with
> continuous-feed paper......

<Snipped>

That's why I kept convincing my wife that ONE day and one day I shall hook
up the dot-matrix printer to make it works.  But this always become my weak
point whenever I ask her to clean up her collections of shoes and cloth :-)

I have not tried up the laser printer for a few years now, (1) can the
latest economical laser printer do duplex printing on cheap 70gm paper well?
(2) is the drum kept warm during the standby mode?

These were the main reasons for me going Inkjet:  Save paper and save power.

Lately, the $2 shops here are selling refill ink (Canon and Epson) at
drop-bottom price.  Cost per cartridge refill  has dropped to  S$0.67 =
US$0.47 =  EU$ 0.319, vs S$7 on normal refill, and S$20 for original
catridge.  I have tried them, they are even better quality than the Sepom
ink. Using them on Canon IP3000 and MP730 now.

I have yet to break my plan to my wife on stocking up some IP3000 and
alike.  Shall do so when a free space comes up :-).

Cheers, Ling SM

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