Searching \ for '[OT] Is there a TSA in China ? in OZ ?' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=there+tsa+china
Search entire site for: 'Is there a TSA in China ? in OZ ?'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[OT] Is there a TSA in China ? in OZ ?'
2012\04\26@062826 by RussellMc

face picon face
I had to look up TSA.

Some of the following may sound racist and/or culturalist and/or
xenophobic or similar.
It's certainly not intended to be and hopefully isn't seen that way by any.
It's an attempt to describe things as I've seen and experienced them.
Various things that I mention below may very well not be the norm -
but they are based on my hands-on personal experience.
While my experiences may be wholly unrepresentative of some situations
you will meet, there is a good chance that they will not be vastly
different from what you would experience in some cases and possibly in
many cases.
I will be happy to continue to do business in China in future. But
only on terms which I deemed were liable to produce a mutually
satisfactory result.

China has security arrangements to check people travelling on internal
air transport and on some rail systems. Such arrangements may not be
in place everywhere but I'd consider this normal in any country these
days.
NZ is Oz's brother just across the water. We have security checks of
passengers on internal flights which are similar to those on
international flights - XRay checks and baggage content limitations
etc. We do not (yet) have 'full body scanners" but they will probably
come. We have had one attempted "hijacking" on a very small aircraft
by a woman who was probably mentally unwell. No success, minor
injuries to a pilot and she could not have achieved her aims if she
had been successful initially.

When travelling internationally and flying QANTAS I have been
subjected to 'at the gate' checks by Australian security staff in
addition to the airport security. These are every bit as rigorous as
any other. Passengers who but a 'coke at the lounge vending machines
have it taken off then at the gate by the Oz security staff. When
transiting China-Oz-NZ I have on several occasions had to get off the
plane in Oz with all cabin gear and then be checked back on xx minutes
later through a full security check and back to the same seat.
Annoying fellows :-).  On one outgoing trip I was asked to participate
in a personal bomb carrying check- taken to side room and have a
machine check me. They said it was 100% voluntary. I asked what
happened if I declined. They said that my trip would stop there :-). I
complied. In China at some airports they check people about 30 at a
time in batches using a wipe strips which are  passed lightly over all
as they run amongst you and then bulk check them in a machine. I
wondered what would happen to the 30 if they got a positive :-).

On one trip incoming to Qingdao (Olympics on in Qingdao at the time)
my luggage turned up last on the carousel - not a fluke as happened.
At customs I was taken to a side room and 6 or so customs staff went
through every item in all my bags and asked about them one by one in
detail :-) . I was carrying as full an electronics workshop as I could
- tools, components, misc parts like O-ring sets (new, made in China,
unopened). Dozens of DVDs, ... .  They took the DVDs away "to read".
This was actually all quite fun and I accept it was justified enough
and it only happened once in ~ 12 visits.

Within Australia and within NZ and not on aircraft I would expect
movement to be unencumbered and unchecked. In NZ if driving we must
carry a drivers licence or face an instant fine. We have no national
ID and Oz do not have either as far as I am aware. Driver's licences
here serve as a defacto ID for sales identifications.

In China where XRay machines are installed on rail lines the checking
is usually extremely perfunctory and often a backpack may be carried
through unchecked. Aliens (green or other) need a passport for hotel
bookings or transport bookings. A few years ago in Beijing I had to
submit my passport to obtain internet tome at a I. cafe but I think
that may not be done everywhere. Apart from passport when booking I
have never felt specifically watched or noticed officially in China -
except when I point my camera at certain things which can elicit
sudden responses. (Pretty lake running N-S in middle of Beijing -
lower half is ringed by a military area. No visually obvious. Nice
pagoda with walkway out to it is part of this. As I found out :-).

I hear much about bribery and corruption in China and about having to
do business their way but it seems reasonably possible to do day to
day purchasing and ordering and even manufacturing without this
necessarily being an issue. Secondary to my main activities in China,
I spent some time 'on site' doing some work for a US businessman, in a
shall-remain-nameless inland city, who has manufactured  in China for
about 30 years. At a dinner with him and a high level Taiwanese man
who manufactured in China the latter was lamenting the amount of
bribes needed to be paid to local party officials to do business. The
US manufacturer said he refused to pay any. Being a "westerner" he
could manage this. He was hard drinking and a good entertainer and his
local contacts ate well at his expense but got no cash or kind apart
from that. He spoke good Chinese (by Western standards) which would
have helped immensely - but still used a local translator on business
trips.

I have two rules for people wanting to do business in China:

Rule 1 is 'You have to be there".
ie You or a competent representative who has power to act on your
behalf and who is wholly dedicated to your best interests must be
intimately involved in all parts of the business and manufacturing
process. The person can be a Chinese national as long as they are
definitely "your man". My observation is that if you fail to observe
this rule when transacting business in any major way you will have
problems of every sort imaginable and a few unimaginable ones. While
you could try to explain the reason why this is so in western terms it
both defies reasonable categorisation and it is not necessary to know
why as long as you do it - and as long as you know that if you do not
do it you die (metaphorically). While there may be elements of the
following it is not principally a mater of competence or honesty or
taking the main chance or similar. I feel it may have 'cultural' roots
coming out of the cultural revolution where a generation or two got
very indoctrinated in a different way of doing and thinking - but
again, why matters not.

Rule 0 is next but is 0 not 2 because it is more fundamental.
Rule 0 is "Don't!"  Really that's "If you cannot or will not observe
rule 1, don't start.". For a long while I saw about 0 exceptions to
rule 1. I've now seen a few - but this may be because of great
experience and ability and willingness to visit anytime when needed. I
do some minor work for a modest sized company who seems to be able to
trust a small manufacturer to keep their best interests at heart - but
they constitute a fair part of the factory output which probably helps
immensely.

Along the way: Everything must be checked, certified, tested. When
working with other than top level suppliers you cannot take anything
on faith or spec sheet or past performance. Products which are
advertised as being the product of the seller are, more often than
not, sourced from some common pool which others also use. If there is
a middleman he becomes a possible pint of discontinuity or change.
Again "why" is relatively unimportant. But an element of this is that
in a country so vast with many middlemen and uncertain paths from real
supplier to user AND with buyers wanting best price and not caring
enough about quality there is a tendency to get what you don't pay
for. If you cannot be sure that components came from an expected
source they may not have.

You can buy product from the same factory for two projects run at two
different locations using two different purchasing paths and get good
quality from one path and rubbish and excuses and reasons why they
cannot do xxx from the second path even when you get xxx from the
first path. (I'm still trying to work that one out but neither of the
paths will be active in future!). killing the Golden Goose seems
inexplicably acceptable in some cases.
A factory visit and viewing of a product in the factory is not a sure
guarantee that they made it or can make it in future.
Published performance results for components using internationally
recognised test equipment which you have viewed in their laboratory is
not guarantee that the test data is worth anything at all. Any test
results of performance data or datasheets need provenance that you are
personally happy with or reports from others that you trust or your
own tests. When technical results vary from those reported you may
well be told that you mus have done it wrong. This may very well not
be the norm - but it is my personal experience.

The following as a comment on how you can get tripped up in everyday things:

Speaking Chinese would be very very very useful but is optional. Just
as well. Chinese language is tonal and if you do not use the correct
tones what you say is unintelligible. Worse - English words are given
tonal add ons when used by the Chinese and can not be understood by
them if you do not say them as they do. My ears/brain refuse to handle
this apart from the basics.
Genuine conversation -  me and lady factory engineer. Circuit is on white board.
Me: This resistor ...
She: Rezisitor?
Me: Yes. Re-zis-tor
She: (sweetly) Rezisitor?
Me: Pointing to circuit on white board, ... slowly.
'Yes. This 10 k ohm re zis tor in the circuit here."
She: Oh. Resisitor!!!

Sounded the same to me in all cases.

This is not stupidity or incapability in any normal sense (except
maybe on my par). It's just completely different brain conditioning
over decades of life - on both our parts.
The classic L /  R which is used to parody Chinese and other Asian
speech (LED/red etc) is a product of a lack of one of these in normal
speech  and an interchangeability

A very competent sales person who I worked with in one factory had a
good English vocab and reasonable linguistic skills. I noted she would
often say "he" when she meant "she". On enquiring I found that the
word for he and she is the same in Chinese and the difference is
linguistically achieve by ... Hmmm. Method escapes me. Anon -
translation in and out of English breaks the "code /  data fork" [tm]
as it were. The he and she are interchangeable and the bit that makes
it so is either lost or lost to me.

I used to wonder at the value of bottom end electronic translators
which allow one word to be looked up. No longer - having one word
which is understood can set the scene for much arm waving to complete
the conversation. "Scales" got me a trip to a chemist shop that had
scales suitable for weighing me - and my bag. "Airport" can help heaps
with a taxi driver. "Bus Station" is rather handy. "Taxi" also BUT
'Daaah Deee' repeated with hand waving usually gets you understood.

Anon.


          Russel

2012\04\26@075814 by alan.b.pearce

face picon face
> I had to look up TSA.

I haven't bothered, maybe the OP will enlighten the rest of us ...

> China has security arrangements to check people travelling on internal air transport
> and on some rail systems. Such arrangements may not be in place everywhere but I'd
> consider this normal in any country these days.

When we moved to the UK in 1997 we travelled through China, and I can verify the checking of bags on trains, as well as at airports. When travelling from China north into Siberia we had to pay as our baggage was overweight - there is a weight restriction put on because of the number of Chinese taking goods into Russia to trade. Watching said traders get their large amount of luggage onto the train during a 10 minute stop at the last major station before the border is another story again ...

> When travelling internationally and flying QANTAS I have been subjected to 'at the
> gate' checks by Australian security staff in addition to the airport security. These
> are every bit as rigorous as any other.
With all due respect to the Australians, I have travelled through Australian airports on a number of occasions, and every time the staff at check in desks and any control point have been the most obstreperous of any I have come across, even more so than US ones who can be pretty gruff. You won't be allowed 100g of overweight luggage without paying for it is my experience. I have also been through the get off plane, go through security check, get on plane a couple of hours later set up, and can back up Russells comment on this.

-- Scanned by iCritical.

2012\04\26@105312 by Carey Fisher

face picon face
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 7:32 AM, <spam_OUTalan.b.pearceTakeThisOuTspamstfc.ac.uk> wrote:

> > I had to look up TSA.
>
> I haven't bothered, maybe the OP will enlighten the rest of us ...
>
> "Y'all must not be from around heah."  :-}

>
>
-- Carey Fishe

2012\04\26@111401 by alan.b.pearce

face picon face
> > > I had to look up TSA.
> >
> > I haven't bothered, maybe the OP will enlighten the rest of us ...
> >
> > "Y'all must not be from around heah."  :-}

How'd he 'now dat ... ???
-- Scanned by iCritical.

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2012 , 2013 only
- Today
- New search...