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'[OT] How did the Chimpanzee cross the road'
2006\09\09@070311 by Russell McMahon

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I post this mainly because it essentially doesn't say what people
report it as saying, or what its heading or first paragraph says.

       http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/tayside_and_central/5315164.stm

What it does indicate is that Chimpanzees recognise that roads are
dangerous. The report proper MAY in fact indicate that what they do as
a result reduces the danger level, but its not obvious from this
summary that their reaction is at all effective. Their strategy is
aimed, if aimed at all, at dealing with a purposeful attacker, and
does no indicate that they are aware of the nature of motor vehicle
threat.


       Russell

2006\09\09@125922 by Brooke Clarke

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Hi Russell:

I live in the forest and watch how different animals handle the roads.
The defense mechanisms for some animals are:
Deer - freeze (maybe good for hiding from lions not cars)
Squirrels  and rabbits - run in a zig-zag pattern (good for protection
from birds of prey but not cars)
Frogs - don't do much of anything and just get squashed when it's raining
Skunks - spray (might work on some animals, but not cars)
Raccoons & Opossums - have seen raccoons dead on the road but not Opossums
Turkeys - When the mothers are herding the new hatched they use a
formation similar to that described in the chimps crossing roads
article.  But the article did not say whether that formation is used all
the time.  I haven't seen turkeys with new hatched crossing a road.  
When older turkeys cross the road they seem very unorganized and can't
decide to go for it or turn back.  They'd rather run than fly.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke

--
w/Java http://www.PRC68.com
w/o Java www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
http://www.precisionclock.com

2006\09\09@131457 by David VanHorn

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On 9/9/06, Brooke Clarke <spam_OUTbrookeTakeThisOuTspampacific.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Russell:
>
> I live in the forest and watch how different animals handle the roads.
> The defense mechanisms for some animals are:
> Deer - freeze (maybe good for hiding from lions not cars)


I've seen a few cars totalled by deer.
They seem to be working on something like the monarch butterfly.
"Don't hit me, I'll total you!"


I've always been curious who trains the deer about those car whistles.

Hey have you seen ed lately?
Nope, not since he went up to see what that noise was about.
hmm.. Must be pretty good, let's go check it out.

Thump..

2006\09\10@074508 by John Ferrell

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It amazes me how many people there are that think animals lack intelligence!
The only real conclusion I can draw from the story is that some chimps are
more intelligent than some people.

John Ferrell    W8CCW
"My Competition is not my enemy"
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2006\09\11@020132 by Russell McMahon
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I'm not sure, from the data provided, if that's how it happened, that
you arrived at:

- > It amazes me how many people there are that think animals lack
intelligence!

or

- > The only real conclusion I can draw from the story is that some
chimps are
> more intelligent than some people.

Both may be true :-)

My main point was that the article's writers seemed to assume that it
had been demonstrated that the Chimpanzees had implented an effective
and intelligent response to the danger whereas, to me, it seems that
they had used what intelligence they had to choose the best strategy
that they already had available to deal with a recognised danger, but
thatthe danger it was useful for was different in nature from this
one. ie while they had done well for what they were they had not
necessarily done well in absolute vterms or human terms. It MAY be
that clustering the strong at each end and the weak in the middle,
which is (presumably) useful against intentional predator attack on
the group,  is in fact also effective in dealing with randomly
arriving motor vehicles, but it's not immediately evident to me that
this is the case. It MAY be that the lead members control access to
the road so crossing is carried out when deemed safest, and it MAY be
that those at the end hurry the process up and prevent stragglers.
This would tend to be how a human group arranged in this way would
function. But it's not evident from what was reported that this is
what the chimpanzees do in this case. If they don't have a mutual care
arrangement working where they do something appropriate when a car
does arrive then this behavious is liable to get the ones in the
middle killed as those at either end scatter. If this is in fact what
happens, maybe that's a sign if intelligence too :-).


       Russell

2006\09\11@112031 by gacrowell

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> > The defense mechanisms for some animals are:
> > Deer - freeze (maybe good for hiding from lions not cars)
>
>
> I've seen a few cars totalled by deer.
> They seem to be working on something like the monarch butterfly.
> "Don't hit me, I'll total you!"
>
>
> I've always been curious who trains the deer about those car whistles.




archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/09/25/coolsc.critters.attacks/
index.html

2006\09\11@114124 by David VanHorn

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If you look at children on a school outing, you'll see the same structure.
Adults fore and aft, kids in the middle.
An adult will cross the road in the lead, and another one crosses last.

2006\09\11@151433 by Russell McMahon

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> If you look at children on a school outing, you'll see the same
> structure.
> Adults fore and aft, kids in the middle.
> An adult will cross the road in the lead, and another one crosses
> last.

But, as I've already noted in more detail, that only makes sense if
you then do something rational with that organisational structure. The
chimpanzees may, but its' not what the structure is usually used for
and the article did not indicate that they were using it usefully.
Something made to be useful for targeted purposeful predator attacks
on the group may but doesn't necessarily help against cars.


       Russell.

2006\09\11@153647 by Bob Axtell

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Walked?


--Bob

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