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'[OT] HTML Question'
2000\05\05@102911 by Andrew Kunz

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face
I need to make a website which automatically refreshes the display once a
minute.

Is there some HTML or Java comand which will do this for me?  I don't want the
user to have to press the <RELOAD> button on his browser.  I would like it to
work with M$IE, NetScape, and Sun/Unix browsers if at all possible.  Maybe if it
detected the browser type and configured itself.

Thanks.

Andy

2000\05\05@104124 by Bennett, Matt

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Insert this tag after the <BODY> tag:  Content is the number of seconds
until it loads the page.
600 will reload every 10 minutes.

<META HTTP-EQUIV="Refresh" CONTENT="600; URL=http://www.??????.com/??????">

If you want it to reload the current page, place its URL after the "URL=" in
the
tag above.  You can also have it point to another page.

Matt Bennett

{Original Message removed}

2000\05\05@105826 by Andrew Kunz

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face
Thanks.  Any idea on how to make it refresh only a small portion of the display?
I don't want it to have to reload the graphics each time.

The server is running a CGI script which inserts data from the embedded device
(all the same machine, 80186 based but it includes PICs on the board <G>).

Thanks.

Andy

2000\05\05@112944 by Bennett, Matt

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face
The graphics should be cached, so depending on the actions of the browser,
it might not
reload them.  HTTP is page based, so I don't know how to separate a specific
part of a page
from the page as a whole.  You possibly could do this as part of some client
side executable,
such as Java or Javascript, and you lose portability.

You could use frames and have only one of the frames with the meta-refresh
tag, but you
potentially lose some portability, and using frames often annoys people.

To keep this pic related: I've used similar techniques with my web-cam,
which has a PIC
controlled Pan/Tilt moving it...

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Kunz
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 9:57 AM
To: spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [OT] HTML Question
Importance: Low


Thanks.  Any idea on how to make it refresh only a small portion of the
display?
I don't want it to have to reload the graphics each time.

The server is running a CGI script which inserts data from the embedded
device
(all the same machine, 80186 based but it includes PICs on the board <G>).

Thanks.

Andy

2000\05\05@122551 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
       As long as we're headed down this road...  For a PIC project (yes,
really! The pic will cause the PC to write some data files), I want to
have the html page insert stuff from a local program (like an exec
statement in a page on a web server just drops in the output of that
program).  So... I'd like to have something like

<!--#exec cmd="ProgramName.exe param1 param2 param3"-->

       This would execute ProgramName.exe on the client that is running the
browser and pass it the parameters. ProgramName would generate html on
the fly and return it to the browser where it replaces the <!#exec...>,
inserting that HTML in the otherwise prescripted page.

       Anyone have any ideas on how to do this?

Thanks!

Harold



FCC Rules Online at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules
Lighting control for theatre and television at http://www.dovesystems.com

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
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2000\05\05@124036 by Bennett, Matt

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While this is a bit too complex for me to write up with the resources I have
at hand- you're almost there- you want to look up Server Side Includes
(SSI),
and it is done with a tag like <!--#exec cgi="whatever"--#>  I think, I
can't
remember the exact syntax and I have no access to my personal server at
work.
Be very careful about including parameters to a CGI program in the web page-

this is a very risky thing to do, security wise.  Much better to not pass
any
parameters, or run them through something that parses the parameters *very*
carefully.  This is at the heart of buffer overflow exploits.

Matt Bennett

{Original Message removed}

2000\05\05@124241 by Andrew Kunz

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Try http://www.ussw.com

We are using their system to develop our package.  The whole thing is a bunch of
CGI scripts, even the supposed "index.html"

Pricey but sure works nice!

Andy

2000\05\05@124459 by Dan Creagan

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face
There's probably a million ways to do it, but I doubt you will find it
straight forward.

Here are some ideas off the top of my head:

Telling a browser to fire up a local file is a security issue so you will
have to do some finagling.

<!-- #exec commands are usually server side - not client side. You can use
MS and drop in an ActiveX component that would do the job. Have to register
the object if it isn't registered and you will have to provide the object if
it isn't already on the client. In addition, the client browser will have to
be configured to allow local writes using the object (not allowed by
default).

You can set a cookie on the browser if you just want to offload information.

You can send a Java object - have to have a security manager setting to
allow it to write locally if it is an applet (easier to do it with an
application). Browsers generally don't like you screwing with the security
settings, so you would have to run it using Appletviewer or as an
Application. There have been many changes to Java and someone may have a
better way than this.

You can have the PIC redirect the client to a server CGI that will accept
the data and then respond back with any darn thing you want.  This might be
a neat way to do  it. The restrictions on CGI are not bad and you could
store the data on the server and let the client retrieve it with a
hyperlink. In addition, a redirect would require very little work by the
PIC.

Anyone else got some ways?

Dan

=======================================================


       As long as we're headed down this road...  For a PIC project (yes,
really! The pic will cause the PC to write some data files), I want to
have the html page insert stuff from a local program (like an exec
statement in a page on a web server just drops in the output of that
program).  So... I'd like to have something like

<!--#exec cmd="ProgramName.exe param1 param2 param3"-->

       This would execute ProgramName.exe on the client that is running the
browser and pass it the parameters. ProgramName would generate html on
the fly and return it to the browser where it replaces the <!#exec...>,
inserting that HTML in the otherwise prescripted page.

       Anyone have any ideas on how to do this?

Thanks!

Harold



FCC Rules Online at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules
Lighting control for theatre and television at http://www.dovesystems.com

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj.

2000\05\05@125326 by rleggitt

picon face
If your browser could do that, it would be totally insecure, and any
12-year-old Windows-script-wielding twerp could completely wipe your hard
disk. So I'm sure there's a way with Internet Explorer...

-- Rich


On Fri, 5 May 2000, Harold M Hallikainen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2000\05\05@144736 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
On Fri, 5 May 2000 12:40:43 -0400 Andrew Kunz <EraseMEakunzspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTTDIPOWER.COM>
writes:
> Try http://www.ussw.com
>
> We are using their system to develop our package.  The whole thing
> is a bunch of
> CGI scripts, even the supposed "index.html"
>
> Pricey but sure works nice!
>
> Andy

       Are you using their embedded web server? I'm thinking more along the
lines of viewing local html files that have exec tags that call a local
program that evaluates the parameters and returns some html that's
inserted in the page. The "local program" would pull data from a local
text file that is updated with data from remote PICs.  So, I don't really
need a "web server" that can send http. I really just need a way of
getting the browser to do execute something and put the results inline.
Maybe I should study the love letter virus! Maybe I DO need a "server"
running on the client machine that feeds the local page to the browser,
intercepts the exec tags and substitutes the output of a program that
evaluates the parameters passed to it.
       Just thinking here...  Lynx has the lynxexec tag, that's kinda like what
I want, but it doesn't insert the output of the program called, it
replaces the old screen with the output of the execed program (more of a
shell that you later escape).
       My idea here is to not have the embedded device build the pages.
Instead, it sends its current status (and accepts commands) in some
simple IP protocol (UDP? I gotta learn more IP!). This "current status"
is captured to log files on the client machines. Local html files provide
the user interface and pull data from the log files.
       So... that's where I'm headed, I hope!

Harold


FCC Rules Online at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules
Lighting control for theatre and television at http://www.dovesystems.com

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj.

2000\05\05@144739 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
       So, does this require some sort of "personal server" running on what's
otherwise a client machine? Again, I want to build pages on the fly based
on data in files on the machine that's running the browser.

Thanks!

Harold

On Fri, 5 May 2000 11:39:49 -0500 "Bennett, Matt"
<Matt.Bennettspamspam_OUTANDREW.COM> writes:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2000\05\05@150151 by Bennett, Matt

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face
I think I misunderstood your original question.  If you want some inline
code to
be executed on the client (browser) side, you're going to need to have
something like
java or javascript, and even then you will be limited in what you can do,
since,
for security reasons, a server's ability to execute programs on a client
side is
extremely limited (would *you* want rootshell.com[*] to be able to execute
an
arbitrary command on your machine?)

You can, with includes on a (non embeddedd, traditional) web server, have a
tag which
refers to the embedded/PICified host, which can be text or graphic, which
would be
included inline in the traditional web-server's page.  If you would like to
talk
off-line about this, contact me at my personal address (@spam@mjbKILLspamspamhazmat.com), and
I'll
look up how I did it before (at home).

[*] rootshell, I believe, is (or was) a very popular cracker site, with lots
of
hacking tools available.  I'd check to verify it, but my employer has me
running
through a draconian net-nanny proxy.

{Original Message removed}

2000\05\05@151216 by Andrew Kunz

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face
Yes, the complete package including MT/ST (the RTOS), SNMP, FTP, SMTP, POP3,
HTTP, CGI, ...

They have a thing to catch meta tags in the HTML files and do substitution for
you.  We used that for a while, but then I made it into a CGI so I had better,
easier control of the output.

It's built around a modified AMD Net186 board (186ES processor).

In addition to all the above, it also has a virtual file system which you can
use to download HTML files.

It's sure easy this way!

(They have good tech support as well).

Andy










Harold M Hallikainen <KILLspamharoldhallikainenKILLspamspamJUNO.COM> on 05/05/2000 02:17:53 PM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [OT] HTML Question








On Fri, 5 May 2000 12:40:43 -0400 Andrew Kunz <TakeThisOuTakunzEraseMEspamspam_OUTTDIPOWER.COM>
writes:
> Try http://www.ussw.com
>
> We are using their system to develop our package.  The whole thing
> is a bunch of
> CGI scripts, even the supposed "index.html"
>
> Pricey but sure works nice!
>
> Andy

       Are you using their embedded web server? I'm thinking more along the
lines of viewing local html files that have exec tags that call a local
program that evaluates the parameters and returns some html that's
inserted in the page. The "local program" would pull data from a local
text file that is updated with data from remote PICs.  So, I don't really
need a "web server" that can send http. I really just need a way of
getting the browser to do execute something and put the results inline.
Maybe I should study the love letter virus! Maybe I DO need a "server"
running on the client machine that feeds the local page to the browser,
intercepts the exec tags and substitutes the output of a program that
evaluates the parameters passed to it.
       Just thinking here...  Lynx has the lynxexec tag, that's kinda like what
I want, but it doesn't insert the output of the program called, it
replaces the old screen with the output of the execed program (more of a
shell that you later escape).
       My idea here is to not have the embedded device build the pages.
Instead, it sends its current status (and accepts commands) in some
simple IP protocol (UDP? I gotta learn more IP!). This "current status"
is captured to log files on the client machines. Local html files provide
the user interface and pull data from the log files.
       So... that's where I'm headed, I hope!

Harold


FCC Rules Online at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules
Lighting control for theatre and television at http://www.dovesystems.com

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj.

2000\05\05@151222 by Andrew Kunz

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face
>So, does this require some sort of "personal server" running on what's
>otherwise a client machine? Again, I want to build pages on the fly based
>on data in files on the machine that's running the browser.

What you are saying is you want a CGI engine.  The code to do it with USSW is
super simple.

Andy

2000\05\05@195548 by Kieran Miller

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face
> Thanks.  Any idea on how to make it refresh only a small portion of the
> display?
> I don't want it to have to reload the graphics each time.

How about making the bit you want refreshed a separate frame, and only
including the refresh metatag in that particular frame?

Kieran

2000\05\06@092856 by plp

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face
Hi,

Harold, you cannot do what you need easily without compromising
security. Web browsers do not allow anything from the local system to be
sent out without the user's confirmation (excepting some web browsers
which do send out anything and everything without confirmation ;-).

There is also the problem of concurrent access on the data. If your
embedded system is writing data while a browser is reading it then the
browser may choke on some partial HTML tags and crash. Anything can
happen.

If you really want to send data to someone, then the best bet would be
for the remote party to access your system as a server. In other words,
they (the server) access the client (your machine) as a server. For most
servers this is trivial to implement.

In any case you will need some sort of server running on the client
machine. There are (free ?) server implementations for Windows95 and 98
machines. They act like miniature web servers and some can run CGI
scripts. Imho, obtain, and install such a thing, then start doing CGI.

Now, if the data to be read is small, and the read is to be fast, then
you can implement (or download) a ping program, and send the data in a
ping packet. FYI the ping packet has provisions for a few bytes of
'optional data'  in its body, and hosts, specifically Unix hosts, can
easily access this data in more than one way (for a quick way on Unix,
inspect the icmpdump manual page).

Then, assuming you have the server, you would:

- Have a HREF in the local page referenceing the local server,
specifically a CGI script implemented in it.
- Have the CGI script be the special ping program, which will
(atomically) read the data and send it in a ping packet to a host of
your choice.

- or -

- Have the CGI script be an expect script that will upload and/or
download by ftp, httpd, or whatever anything you want from anywhere in
the whole world. In fact, the CGI script can be anything you want. Just
make sure that the output gets sent to where you want it to go, not
where a referrer wants it to go ;-).

expect is a Tcl related program you should really look at imho.

There are many other ways to do this, but most are hacks on Windows
machines, because they do not allow easy access to the power a Unix
machine has, for such things.

hope this helps,

   Peter

2000\05\06@153325 by Sayer

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face
Hi there,

If you don't want frames (for EQUIV-reload of a small frame) you could
also write a small CGI which makes an animated GIF or your data, it
will be displayed while loaded. Animated GIF is recognized
by most browsers (at least Netscape, IE, Mosaic & Arena imho).
Thats the way some webcams do it.
GIF format is easy. Drawback: loads more traffic.

Stefan Sayer

Andrew Kunz wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\05\08@071514 by Andrew Kunz

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I have to provide compatibility with systems which don't support frames.









Kieran Miller <RemoveMEkiermillspamTakeThisOuTDTN.NTL.COM> on 05/05/2000 07:54:03 PM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      EraseMEPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [OT] HTML Question








> Thanks.  Any idea on how to make it refresh only a small portion of the
> display?
> I don't want it to have to reload the graphics each time.

How about making the bit you want refreshed a separate frame, and only
including the refresh metatag in that particular frame?

Kieran

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