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'[OT] Google is an oracle (was PCB term)'
2010\05\27@174712 by Vitaliy

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Reminds me of another story I heard.

Allegedly a Greek general came to the oracle, and asked whether he should do
battle. "Go, there shall be victory" was the answer. After his army was
defeated, the angry general returned to the oracle and demanded an
explanation. "I didn't say which side would claim the victory"

Vitaliy


{Original Message removed}

2010\05\27@180904 by Tamas Rudnai

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Sun is Oracle now :-)

I was surprised that the VirtualBox 3.2 is now officially from Oracle.

Tamas



On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Vitaliy <spam_OUTpiclistTakeThisOuTspammaksimov.org> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2010\05\28@033440 by Oli Glaser

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> BUT, the internet is all too often delphic in its utterances and you
> have to  sort the wheat from the much chaff, so maybe the Alexandrian
> library misses the vote :-).

I agree as far as Google is concerned, the intelligence is with the user
asking the question, not Google (i.e depends hugely on correct terms used
etc). I read somewhere a while back that there was a group working on an
"intelligent"(neural network etc), oracle like engine that you could ask a
question of in a normal fashion, and it would interpret and find either an
answer or some *relevant* results. IIRC, they were predicting it would
replace google as the search engine of choice. A kind of intelligent cross
between Wiki and Google, or something.

Trouble is with all this stuff, at what point will we stop thinking for
ourselves entirely, if everything is done for us? :) To give an example - I
went to buy some wood the other day, and asked for a certain type, the chap
at the checkout  ( of the *very* small establishment) said he didn't know
whether they had any in stock, if they did it was in the (you guessed it)
stock room. I asked him to check, and he proceeded to look on the computer
to see if there was any. Computer said no, so that was it as far as he was
concerned. I asked him politely to "actually" go and look. He grunted and
marched off, returning a minute later with the required wood looking a
little sheepish. Of course he blamed it on the computer, BUT - 50 years ago,
if you went to the local shop, whatever it sold, chances are the storekeeper
would probably know exactly what/how much of everything he had in, and where
it was. Is this progress I ask myself?  ( I suppose it is, but surely it's a
good idea to at least have some back up skills/knowledge in case the
computer does not perform)
Checkout operators who cannot do simple math etc? (nothing against checkout
operators in general, just another example) ++Computer  ==  --Common
sense/ingenuity/resourcefulness?
I suppose the other obvious side to this is the fact that used properly,
computers are a wonderful tool and can greatly aid us. My argument though is
that one still needs Common sense/ingenuity/resourcefulness, and I think
these qualitites may be undervalued nowadays (i.e Computer != answer to all
problems). Anyway, rant over (not sure what provoked all that :-) )


2010\05\28@040444 by Alan B Pearce

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> Trouble is with all this stuff, at what point will we stop thinking for
> ourselves entirely, if everything is done for us? :)

I know what you mean, we had a secondary school student come to us for a
week work experience a few months ago. Set him any problem, and his first
instinctive reaction was to search Google.

2010\05\28@051021 by RussellMc

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> I know what you mean, we had a secondary school student come to us for a
> week work experience a few months ago. Set him any problem, and his first
> instinctive reaction was to search Google.

Yes. Whereas we seasoned greybeards bang our heads against the wall a
while and THEN use Gargoyle.
I''m learning though :-).(ie - using G' 1st can have some merit as
long as it's not the only arrow in your quiver).

I posit the thesis, and I'm not 101% sure of its truth, that Gargoyle
is THE most valuable and useful engineering tool I have ever had.

Its power obviously comes from the web resource which it mainly just
stands on the shoulders of, but G's indexing and search capability are
what makes it so utterly superb. Other pretenders probably are of
approximately equal calibre by now, but so far G hasn't done enough
wrong to persuade me to look beyond its capabilities. It does however
seem to be getting worse in what and how it finds things and I look
forward to a paradigm shift that is as great as was the shift from the
marvellous Alta-Vista to the stunningly incredible Gargoyle.


                 R
                "Gargoyle Master" (with diamonds)

2010\05\28@081616 by Olin Lathrop

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Alan B Pearce wrote:
>> Trouble is with all this stuff, at what point will we stop thinking
>> for ourselves entirely, if everything is done for us? :)
>
> I know what you mean, we had a secondary school student come to us
> for a week work experience a few months ago. Set him any problem, and
> his first instinctive reaction was to search Google.

Geesh, doesn't he know he should trudge down to his local library, dig thru
little paper index cards in hundreds of little drawers, find the referenced
book in the stacks, flip thru it, discover it's not really what he needs,
back to the index cards...


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(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2010\05\28@092339 by Oli Glaser

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Olin Lathrop" <.....olin_piclistKILLspamspam@spam@embedinc.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistspamKILLspammit.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Google is an oracle (was PCB term)


{Quote hidden}

Of course most of us would not want to go back to that kind of scenario, why
expend unnecessary effort when there is a good tool like Google available.
All I was saying is the more software/machines do for us, the more *some*
people seem to think that learning the theory behind their trade etc isn't
necessary, as they may not see the point if a machine can do it for them
(e.g circuit theory -> spice etc) Of course there have always been
incompetent/lazy people, but I'm wondering if the general attitude nowadays
is leaning more towards "if there is a tool that can do it for you, you
don't need to know how any of it works" (How many people cannot perform
basic maths nowadays, or spell correctly? Is it down to calculators, spell
checkers etc? It always amazes me that even WITH spell checkers, I still see
mistakes/grammatical errors in publications all the time). I suppose the
underlying point is that these are all (incredibly useful) tools, but none
of them entirely eliminate the need for the human to understand things. I'm
sure this argument has been raging for as long as people have been inventing
things, but it still interests me.


2010\05\28@095729 by Marechiare

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>> I know what you mean, we had a secondary school student
>> come to us for a week work experience a few months ago.
>> Set him any problem, and his first instinctive reaction was
>> to search Google.
>
> Geesh, doesn't he know he should trudge down to his local
> library, dig thru little paper index cards in hundreds of little
> drawers, find the referenced book in the stacks, flip thru it,
> discover it's not really what he needs, back to the index cards...

"What does that mean?" This question could be used in some IQ tests.
Two answer options to select from:

1. He is joking at stupid laziness of secondary school students.

or

2. He states in a humorous way that Google search system is better
than the old library based system.

---

I bet, most would click on first option.

2010\05\28@110156 by RussellMc

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>>> I know what you mean, we had a secondary school student
>>> come to us for a week work experience a few months ago.
>>> Set him any problem, and his first instinctive reaction was
>>> to search Google.

>> Geesh, doesn't he know he should trudge down to his local
>> library, dig thru little paper index cards in hundreds of little
>> drawers, find the referenced book in the stacks, flip thru it,
>> discover it's not really what he needs, back to the index cards...
>
> "What does that mean?" This question could be used in some IQ tests.
> Two answer options to select from:
>
> 1. He is joking at stupid laziness of secondary school students.
>
> or
>
>  2. He states in a humorous way that Google search system is better
> than the old library based system.

No.
Best answer, IMHOAA, is the opposite of 1.

3. He is commending the student for making good use of available technology.

If I HAD to choose between 1. and 2., I'd choose 2.

You could add

4. He is obliquely commenting on the OP's original assessment.

I might almost prefer 4. over 3. :-)


                R

2010\05\28@111541 by Moreira, Luis A

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You bet on many things, maybe you should just abstain from commenting.
Again I would like to tell you that there is only one Olin, stop doing
cheap imitations. He is a big boy, he does not need you to explain is
statements.
Best Regards
            Luis

{Original Message removed}

2010\05\28@121616 by RussellMc

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Hat = ambiguous:

Please take due care in posting on this thread not to stray too far
into inter-personal argument, that it's days (the threads) may be long
on the face of the land.

It would be a shame to kill such a variable and wandering OT thread too early.

2010\05\28@125627 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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Em 28/5/2010 10:23, Oli Glaser escreveu:
{Quote hidden}

In the book 3001, Arthur C. Clarke says that nobody knew (in year 3001)
how space-ships work anymore, mostly because there is too much to know
that nobody can understand it all.

Isaac

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2010\05\28@130211 by Marechiare

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>> "What does that mean?" This question could be used in some
>> IQ tests. Two answer options to select from:
>>
>> 1. He is joking at stupid laziness of secondary school students.
>>
>> or
>>
>>  2. He states in a humorous way that Google search system
>> is better than the old library based system.
>
> No.
> Best answer, IMHOAA, is the opposite of 1.

Great.
I believe that could be a good IQ test item :-)

2010\05\28@131848 by Marechiare

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> ... maybe you should just abstain from commenting.

That's good, the more moderators, the better list. Anyone else to join the team?

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