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'[OT] Good site for MP3 music downloads?'
2006\02\03@203312 by John Pearson

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Here is one for Russel...looking for a good site to download MP3 music. Overwhelmed with the number of sites after Googling. Would like to pay a per-download with no subscription or monthly fees if possible.

Thanks

John

2006\02\03@233139 by Mike Hord

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Good luck on that.

Most of them use fairly prohibitive DRM; those that don't won't
have any of the music you're looking for (broad generalization;
I don't know your tastes, but the ones without DRM generally
have largely unknown bands).

My advice:  just buy the CDs and rip 'em yourself.  Walmart.com
charges (IIRC) $0.89 per for downloads, iTunes is ~$0.99, others
are comparable.  Most albums can be had used from your local
music shop (NOT Virgin Megastore or Best Buy or MediaPlay or
Sam Goody or...)(you're in CA, right, John?  Check out your local
Amoeba Records) for ~$10.  If your disc has more than 10 tracks,
you're ahead.  Plus, no DRM, you KNOW the format you rip the
songs in will work on your portable player, you have the freedom
to choose which player you'll use on the PC, you have a hard copy
of the source, and you can choose the sound quality YOU like
best instead of having it dictated unto you.

I know it SEEMS like a good idea to just download them, but the
other fun thing is that if you buy from a local record store, you're
keeping cash in the community and supporting local business.

Mike H.

2006\02\04@023718 by Peter Todd

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On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 05:33:58PM -0800, John Pearson wrote:
> Here is one for Russel...looking for a good site to download MP3 music. Overwhelmed with the number of sites after Googling. Would like to pay a per-download with no subscription or monthly fees if possible.

I buy all my music from http://www.bleep.com Full quality mp3s, no digital
restrictions managment of any sort! You pay via paypal or credit card
and can download a zip file of your music immediately. Cost varies, but
~$10 an album is typical. That said, your milage may vary depending on
your musical tastes, 'cause I don't see no Beatles there...

--
spam_OUTpeteTakeThisOuTspampetertodd.ca http://www.petertodd.ca

2006\02\04@080123 by Bob J

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www.allofmp3.com

I'm sure the RIAA lawyers lose sleep over this site, and there's nothing
they can do about it because of the intellectual property laws in Russia.

Regards,
Bob

On 2/3/06, John Pearson <.....xeroKILLspamspam@spam@cmc.net> wrote:
>
> Here is one for Russel...looking for a good site to download MP3 music.
> Overwhelmed with the number of sites after Googling. Would like to pay a
> per-download with no subscription or monthly fees if possible.
>
> Thanks
>
> John
> -

2006\02\04@101344 by Russell McMahon

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> http://www.allofmp3.com

> I'm sure the RIAA lawyers lose sleep over this site, and there's
> nothing
> they can do about it because of the intellectual property laws in
> Russia.

It seems strange to me to pay people good money for stolen music when
one may as well steal it for free :-). Of course it's not technically
stolen because theft is not illegal in Russia, or at least theft of IP
isn't :-).

Do note that while it's not illegal for them to provide you with the
MP3s, in most countries it's illegal to receive them from them. They
allude to this indirectly on their site (or did when I looked at the
site a few months ago).  Perversely, I was unable to get any of the
larger "legal" MP3 sites to accept any form of payment that I could
tender (including VISA).

Lack of DRM on any material is a reasonable indication that a site
probably is providing material which is illegal for you to acquire,
even if not illegal for them to sell.

FWIW in my country it is illegal to copy for your own personal use
music from a CD or tape that you *OWN* to any other media (including
another CD / tape or an MP3 etc player). (It's most unlikely that you
would be prosecuted for doing this). In recent submissions to the
government our recording industry representatives explained at length
why this system was 'justified' and should be continued. Unfortunately
there's no death penalty here for asinine gouging pond-scum, although
there may be in Arizona :-). Our law DOES allow single backup copies
to be made of computer "software" to unspecified media. Computer data
appears to be implicit in this definition. I believe an excellent
legal case could be made for the *fact* that all CD based material is
computer data and even in part computer software material. (A CD
player is an interpreter in the proper computer sense of the word
:-)). I don't expect to ever see this concept tested in court.



           RM


2006\02\04@123504 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Russell McMahon wrote:

>> http://www.allofmp3.com

> Of course it's not technically stolen because theft is not illegal in
> Russia, or at least theft of IP isn't

"Theft" is when it's illegal, I guess, so why call it "theft" if it's
legal? Would you call your use of some 30 year old patent "theft" just
because the Republic of Juruney passed a law that gives protection to all
patents registered worldwide, for the lifetime of the owner (a not
unreasonable point of view), whereas it is legal in your country to use it
because it has expired after 20 years? Probably not...

Whether it's "stolen" or not is either a technical question (the legal
aspect) or a moral one (which is even more unclear, and definitely has more
than one side). But you have to decide which one you choose... :)


> Do note that while it's not illegal for them to provide you with the
> MP3s, in most countries it's illegal to receive them from them.

Where does illegality come from? How would this apply to a Russian resident
traveling to one such country with a bunch of CDs in the luggage (or files
on the laptop or in the MP3 player) that were legally bought in Russia?


> FWIW in my country it is illegal to copy for your own personal use music
> from a CD or tape that you *OWN* to any other media (including another
> CD / tape or an MP3 etc player). (It's most unlikely that you would be
> prosecuted for doing this).

I have a deep distrust against laws that nobody wants to enforce. This
seems to me a clear indication that /something/ is wrong with this law.
They probably don't enforce it because they fear that if they did it, the
law would get looked at closely and eventually fall. (And I think that this
is morally wrong, even though technically legal.)

Gerhard

2006\02\04@173222 by Robert Rolf

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Russell McMahon wrote:
>>http://www.allofmp3.com
>
> FWIW in my country it is illegal to copy for your own personal use
> music from a CD or tape that you *OWN* to any other media (including
> another CD / tape or an MP3 etc player). (It's most unlikely that you
> would be prosecuted for doing this).

In Canada we have to pay a 'tax' on ALL blank recordable media (cassettes,
CDs and DVDs, soon to include Flash memory).
The levy goes to the Canadian Copyright Collective, for distribution
to Canadian artists, based on their sales popularity.
(Does anyone see the contradiction here? Those who are most popular
in the download community are those LEAST likely to benefit from the
'royalty'. And what of the foreign artists?)

The amended copyright act allows one to copy a protected work for
'personal use' but NOT for distribution, so you can borrow all the
CD's you want, and copy them with impunity, but you cannot take a CD
you own and give your friends copies. That would be 'distribution'.
But your friend can 'borrow' your original and make a copy for himself.
Insane? Of course, but that's how the idiots wrote the law.

I don't download music because there is very little out there worth
the trouble (I prefer classical), but it really galls me that 80% of
the price of a blank CD-R is now the cost of the levy, and the disk
is for DATA BACKUPS of my computer systems, not music.
Which is why I want all Canadians to know that you have official
government permission to "LOAN" your CD's to anyone you like.

Robert

2006\02\04@181144 by Jinx

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> The amended copyright act allows one to copy a protected work
> for 'personal use' but NOT for distribution, so you can borrow....

At least in Canadia you can make "a" copy. In NZ you are forbidden
from making any copies of anything, not even for personal use. And
on the news a few weeks ago someone from Sony mentioned that
theoretically anyone in NZ with an iPod could be stopped, the iPod
examined for copyright material, and possibly an arrest would follow

I doubt there would be many homes in NZ without an MP3 player,
PC or CD burner that don't have copied material. Including video
tapes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeshift

All of the above doesn't stop me transferring vinyl to CD, especially
vinyl that never was re-released. I don't feel I have the right to do it,
it's simply for my own harmless (IMHO) convenience I also object
to some of the anti-piracy s/w on CDs that can stop them playing in
some units. (Bob Ammerman expressed similar distaste when he had
troubles with Macromedia and a particular TV - unfit for proper use).
I think there have been several recalls of failed attempts after much
customer disatisfaction

2006\02\04@204636 by Howard Winter

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Russell,

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 04:08:52 +1300, Russell McMahon wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Actually, using the word "theft" is a psychological trick by the music (and software) industries - and it's a
misuse of the word, at least under English law (and I believe New Zealand law is based on it).  Theft is
removing someone's property from them, with the intention of permanently depriving them of it.  That's why a
separate law had to be made when people started taking cars to drive home and then just leaving them beside
the road - it wasn't theft as they weren't permanently depriving the owner of the car because they would get
it back, so "taking and driving away" had to be brought in.

Things like "potential profits" are not property, and the owner of "intellectual property" isn't deprived of
it by someone copying it - you'd have to destroy their own copies for that to happen.  Copying music without
permission is a copyright violation, not theft.  Copyright law varies a lot from place to place, including
being absent in some places!

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\02\06@044359 by Alan B. Pearce

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>That's why a separate law had to be made when people started
>taking cars to drive home and then just leaving them beside
>the road - it wasn't theft as they weren't permanently
>depriving the owner of the car because they would get
>it back, so "taking and driving away" had to be brought in.

In NZ this is known as car conversion. It also led to a joke when I was a
teenager, and a bunch of us were standing outside the church. Someone wanted
to know what we were doing out there, instead of being inside. My quick
witted friend said we were converting the cars ...

2006\02\06@055520 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Howard Winter wrote:

>>> http://www.allofmp3.com
>>
>>> I'm sure the RIAA lawyers lose sleep over this site, and there's
>>> nothing they can do about it because of the intellectual property laws
>>> in Russia.
>>
>> Of course it's not technically stolen because theft is not illegal in
>> Russia, or at least theft of IP isn't :-).
>
> Actually, using the word "theft" is a psychological trick by the music
> (and software) industries

Also called propaganda (not the positive or neutral meaning :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

> Copying music without permission is a copyright violation, not theft.
> Copyright law varies a lot from place to place, including being absent
> in some places!

And copying music without violating the law is... How about "legal use"
instead of "theft"?

It's really not Russia's problem that some other country's view of some
ways to make money doesn't match theirs. And opening their borders for
international commerce has always been a proposal of the "free world",
remember? Sounds strange that now the "free world" complains when they do
exactly that... Their copyright laws don't sound exactly absurd; there's a
logic in it. It's just different, not targeted towards creating a mega
billion business.

http://www.museekster.com/allofmp3faq.htm: Some comments to legality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allofmp3

http://www.museekster.com/legalmusic.htm: A list of legal download sites
(probably not complete, doesn't look 100% correct)

Gerhard

2006\02\06@120124 by Dwayne Reid

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At 06:33 PM 2/3/2006, John Pearson wrote:
>Here is one for Russel...looking for a good site to download MP3
>music. Overwhelmed with the number of sites after Googling. Would
>like to pay a per-download with no subscription or monthly fees if possible.

I primarily use two sites:  <http://www.emusic.com> and <http://www.allofmp3.com>

I've been an eMusic subscriber for many years now and have amassed a
nice collection.  I've also spent probably a hundred bucks at
allofmp3.com to obtain music that I can't get from eMusic.

allofmp3.com is an interesting site.  According to the legal types
that I've spoken to, their service is legal - both in Russia and here
in Canada.  The key is that the copyright holders are paid for each download.

In the case of allofmp3.com, their blurb states that copyright fees
are paid at the same rate as radio station.

I quite like eMusic.com.  Its a nice service.

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <dwaynerspamKILLspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax

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2006\02\06@122110 by Danny Sauer

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Speaking of music "downloading", I've been really entertained by
Pandora at http://www.pandora.com.  It's not a service where you can
(legally) save the music, but it's a neat one for discovering music.
You basicalyl start with a song or songs you like, then it selects
similar music that you may like.  You tell it what you think while it
plays, and the choices get better.  It's geared more to popular styles
of music, but the metalhead in me finds enough to be pretty satisfied.
I use it all the time when I'm at work, and some of the time when I'm
home...

There's a few restrictions, but basicaly you can register and use it
free if you let the ad play in the browser all the time, or you can
pay almost nothing and get the ad-free version.  It works well when
you are going to be near a broadband connection anyway - and it works
through http proxys. :)

--Danny

2006\02\06@125759 by Marcel duchamp

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Danny Sauer wrote:
> Speaking of music "downloading", I've been really entertained by

One to check out is http://magnatune.com/

100% of what they offer is available to listen to via online streaming.
 If you like it, you choose how much to pay.  50% of what you choose to
pay goes to the artist.  If you choose to pay a bit extra, they will
send the music on a CD and also allow you to download mp3 files in
several quality levels.

2006\02\08@115858 by Robert Ammerman

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> All of the above doesn't stop me transferring vinyl to CD, especially
> vinyl that never was re-released. I don't feel I have the right to do it,
> it's simply for my own harmless (IMHO) convenience I also object
> to some of the anti-piracy s/w on CDs that can stop them playing in
> some units. (Bob Ammerman expressed similar distaste when he had
> troubles with Macromedia and a particular TV - unfit for proper use).
> I think there have been several recalls of failed attempts after much
> customer disatisfaction

Just to remind those who did not see/do not remember my posting about
this...

I own a Hitachi television, which at the time I purchased it, was a very
high end set, with an excellent picture. Although this set is now rather
old, it still beats most new sets for picture quality. About three years ago
I finally bought a DVD player and hooked it to the set via S-VIDEO.
Unfortunately, when watching DVD's I suffer from nasty jitter in the picture
that comes and goes. After discussion here on the PICLIST we decided that
the issue was likely the set getting confused by the Macrovision protection
in the DVD output signal. It makes no sense that I should have to buy a new
set, or a 'Macrovision Buster' to be able to watch DVDs.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems


2006\02\08@122618 by David VanHorn

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>
>  It makes no sense that I should have to buy a new
> set, or a 'Macrovision Buster' to be able to watch DVDs.


Yes.. They decided to hose up the vertical sync signal, since this gave VCRs
fits, but didn't bother most TVs too much.  Idiotic, but it sold.

2006\02\08@123636 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 11:57 AM 2/8/2006 -0500, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

We had the same problem with "blue screen" on an older Sony TV.

>It makes no sense that I should have to buy a new
>set, or a 'Macrovision Buster' to be able to watch DVDs.

I'm sure it makes perfect sense to Hitachi/Sony/Toshiba/Samsung et al.

>Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
.....speffKILLspamspam.....interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
->> Inexpensive test equipment & parts http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZspeff


2006\02\08@180133 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Robert Ammerman wrote:

> It makes no sense that I should have to buy a new set, or a 'Macrovision
> Buster' to be able to watch DVDs.

While we're at it... it makes no sense to me that I should have to buy a
new DVD drive for my notebook after traveling 3 times between the USA and
Brazil and watching local DVDs at each place. (And before anybody comes up
with this idea: it doesn't make sense to me either that I should have to
buy and carry a DVD drive for every region I may travel to.)

But, to paraphrase Spehro, I'm sure it makes sense to Sony/... :)

Gerhard

2006\02\08@182622 by Howard Winter

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On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 20:55:10 -0200, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:

> Robert Ammerman wrote:
>
> > It makes no sense that I should have to buy a new set, or a 'Macrovision
> > Buster' to be able to watch DVDs.
>
> While we're at it... it makes no sense to me that I should have to buy a
> new DVD drive for my notebook after traveling 3 times between the USA and
> Brazil and watching local DVDs at each place. (And before anybody comes up
> with this idea: it doesn't make sense to me either that I should have to
> buy and carry a DVD drive for every region I may travel to.)
>
> But, to paraphrase Spehro, I'm sure it makes sense to Sony/... :)

I think it comes from the mistaken belief by companies - especially large companies - that they have an
automatic right to make maximum profits by any means they like.  The sooner the Governments of the world
disabuse them of this, the better!

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\02\08@183011 by Danny Sauer

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Gerhard wrote regarding 'Re: [OT] Good site for MP3 music downloads?' on Wed, Feb 08 at 17:03:
> While we're at it... it makes no sense to me that I should have to buy a
> new DVD drive for my notebook after traveling 3 times between the USA and
> Brazil and watching local DVDs at each place.

Only a terrorist would have reason to travel so much.  What are you
hiding, Gerhard? :)

--Danny, pretty sure that region protection has been presented with
"stop the terrorists" as an excuse at some point

2006\02\09@050444 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Danny Sauer wrote:

> Only a terrorist would have reason to travel so much.  What are you
> hiding, Gerhard? :)

Since we're here in a safe area, I can tell you that I'm planning the
invasion of the USA (and of course the rest of the world, but that's a
minor issue) with green coconuts. Drinking their water transforms human
beings forever, and makes them resist any attempt to put some discipline in
them. (Using a notebook that can read DVDs to watch movies on DVD instead
of incessantly digesting new data CDs and DVDs is one of the side effects.)
Of course I'm on the black and red lists of governments around the world.

Gerhard

2006\02\09@182254 by Russell McMahon

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> Of course I'm on the black and red lists of governments around the
> world.

If *I* can pass in and out of the US without being accosted then
anyone can :-).
If I'm not on their records from my internet mailings then they are
not doing their jobs. Even though I am in fact 'entirely harmless'.
If I had been asked to 'come this way sir' at a US airport I would not
have been totally surprised although I of course did not expect this
to happen.


       RM


2006\02\09@182302 by Russell McMahon

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> ... by companies - especially large companies  ...

> ... The sooner the Governments of the world
> disabuse them of this, the better!
But ! - they ARE the government of the world.


       RM


2006\02\09@183312 by David VanHorn

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> If *I* can pass in and out of the US without being accosted then
> anyone can :-).


Last time I went up to canada, I had my "battery breifcase" with me. A
halliburton case, with obvious screws through the sides.  When you open it
up, you see wires, a box with a display and keyboard, lots of wires, a USB
data aquisition pod, a couple of constant current dumps with large heat
sinks, lots of wires, and a platform where a couple of pounds of explosive
could be hiding.

Literally by planes, trains, and automobiles, I made the round trip without
a problem.
Everyone looked in the case, nobody gave me any grief about it.

2006\02\09@210010 by Josh Koffman

face picon face
On 2/9/06, David VanHorn <EraseMEdvanhornspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmicrobrix.com> wrote:
> Last time I went up to canada, I had my "battery breifcase" with me. A
> halliburton case, with obvious screws through the sides.  When you open it
> up, you see wires, a box with a display and keyboard, lots of wires, a USB
> data aquisition pod, a couple of constant current dumps with large heat
> sinks, lots of wires, and a platform where a couple of pounds of explosive
> could be hiding.
>
> Literally by planes, trains, and automobiles, I made the round trip without
> a problem.
> Everyone looked in the case, nobody gave me any grief about it.

Shortly after I got my Fluke Scopemeter, I needed to travel with it. I
carried it on the plane as I didn't trust it in my luggage. I was so
proud of it, I was hoping someone would ask about it...but no one did.
I really wanted to show it off!

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\02\10@003749 by Jinx

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> Shortly after I got my Fluke Scopemeter, I needed to travel
> with it. I carried it on the plane as I didn't trust it in my luggage.
> I was so proud of it, I was hoping someone would ask about
> it...but no one did. I really wanted to show it off!
>
> Josh

Aw. But we're impressed Josh, really we are ;-)

I saw on the news tonight a CBS item about what happens to
all those scissors and knives (and other dangerous weapons
like gran's nail clippers) confiscated at terminals

http://www.cbsnews.com/

"The TSA's Warehouse Of The Weird" - 2/3rds down page

I like the bit about so many fluffy handcuffs. Just what exactly
are you lot doing and why do you need to do it inter-state ?

2006\02\10@005601 by Bob Axtell

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Jinx wrote:

{Quote hidden}

er... my wife and I do it every chance we get, and with handcuffs, too
<G>...

--Bob

--
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attachments must be sent to
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1-520-850-1673 USA/Canada
http://beam.to/azengineer

2006\02\10@041303 by Alan B. Pearce

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> Literally by planes, trains, and automobiles, I made
> the round trip without a problem. Everyone looked in
> the case, nobody gave me any grief about it.

I went somewhere with a small scientific telescope that mounted on a base
for use on an optics bench. Because of weight limits on the checked baggage
I ended up with this in my hand luggage. Got called out at the xray as the
telescope with the mount looked just like a gun on the screen.

2006\02\10@102459 by Danny Sauer

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Jinx wrote regarding 'Re: [OT] Good site for MP3 music downloads?' on Thu, Feb 09 at 23:43:
> I saw on the news tonight a CBS item about what happens to
> all those scissors and knives (and other dangerous weapons
> like gran's nail clippers) confiscated at terminals

The stuff confistaced at the Springfield, IL airport - and possibly
other airports around the state - ends up here:

http://illinoisauction.link2gov.com/auction/XcAPViewInCat.asp?ID=343

--Danny

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