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'[OT] Getting cash abroad'
2008\07\15@034134 by Tomás Ó hÉilidhe

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I'm going to live in Asia for a while and I'm looking at ways of
transferring money from my home country (Ireland).

For instance, let's say someone in my home country wants to send 500
Euro to me. There's options such as:
1) Send me cash by post in an envelope
2) Send me a bank draft by post in an envelope
3) Western Union
4) Put the money into my Irish bank account, and then I'll use my Cirrus
card to withdraw it from an ATM

1 is too dodgy.
2 is too complicated, I'm guaranteed to have trouble in the foreign bank.
3 is ridiculously too expensive.

I'm liking option 4 at the moment, and they only take 3% of the amount
you withdraw with a maximum of 12 Euro charge. So if I withdraw 300
Euro, it will cost me 9 Euro. If I withdraw 5 million Euro, it will cost
me 12 Euro.

Anyone got suggestions for getting money from home? One other thing, I
don't have a credit card here in Ireland but I'm wondering if there's
any merit in me getting one for when I'm away? (I wouldn't get it for
the purpose of having credit, but rather for the functionality of it).

2008\07\15@040507 by Shawn Tan

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On Tuesday 15 July 2008 08:41:01 Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:
> For instance, let's say someone in my home country wants to send 500
> Euro to me. There's options such as:
> 1) Send me cash by post in an envelope
> 2) Send me a bank draft by post in an envelope
> 3) Western Union
> 4) Put the money into my Irish bank account, and then I'll use my Cirrus
> card to withdraw it from an ATM

It depends on how much money you'll need transferred at a time. 1+2 are
definitely out. 3 is suitable if you're transferring larger amounts. 500
euros is probably not worth it. So, you'll only be able to use 4.

I think that HSBC charges less if you end up withdrawing money from another
HSBC branch overseas. At least, that's what I was told by HSBC at both ends.

And yes, by all means, get a credit card. You should be able to use it if you
end up shopping at high-street shops (not regular mom+pop shops). Just
remember that there is usually a surcharge for purchasing by credit card
(about 3% or so).

--
with metta,
Shawn Tan

Aeste Works (M) Sdn Bhd - Engineering Elegance
http://www.aeste.net

2008\07\15@040929 by Picbits Sales

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I think Nationwide Bank have a zero charge on foreign transactions when you
use their credit/debit card.

Worth a look as it could save you a lot of money in the long term.

If you use a credit card then make sure you have someone back home paying
off the balance .......


{Original Message removed}

2008\07\15@041617 by Roger, in Bangkok

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#1 & #2 don't even think about them ...
#3 for all practical purposes is impractical ... as well as ridiculously
expensive.
#4 is deceptive, because they will also deduct "service" charges from the
local currency when you take it out of the ATM.

A credit card is nearly essential ... consider broken bones, lost airline
tickets or missed flight, sudden desire to rent a car or car and driver.  A
few small denomination traveler's checks are not a bad idea, although many
places do not accept them.  Credit cards can only advance cash from ATM, no
bank counter services allowed, at least in Thailand and several other
places.  Likewise you can only advance cash up to 50% of the credit limit.

Regards/Roger, in Bangkok

On 7/15/08, Tomás Ó hÉilidhe <spam_OUTtoeTakeThisOuTspamlavabit.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2008\07\15@043017 by SM Ling

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>> I'm going to live in Asia for a while and I'm looking at ways of
>> transferring money from my home country (Ireland).
>>
>> For instance, let's say someone in my home country wants to send 500
>> Euro to me. There's options such as:
>> 1) Send me cash by post in an envelope
>> 2) Send me a bank draft by post in an envelope
>> 3) Western Union
>> 4) Put the money into my Irish bank account, and then I'll use my Cirrus
>> card to withdraw it from an ATM

It depends on your risk appetite.  For very small amount and depend on
the country you are going to reside, maybe (1) is OK.  Guess, you
would know after a few tries.

I would rather open an account in the residing country if it is going
to be a long while, and then do the transfer through paypal when
necessary.  If it is short while, then I go the credit card way.

Ling SM

2008\07\15@043146 by Apptech

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I use VISA, which I assume is like unto your option 4.
I preload credit before a trip and draw as wanted.
Service charge applies and you are somewhat at the mercy of
their exchange rate.
As the maximum fee is fixed (at about $7.50 AFAIR)($US?)  I
tend to draw in largish dollops if at all to keep the %
down.

Note that (unless you want to give money away to a very bad
cause) you should NEVER use the money changers (Travelex?)
that are in all airports and in main business centres. They
not only offer usurious exchange rates but add a fee as
well. The small money changers, usually located just
outside, and in many other locations as well, offer vastly
better rates and no base fee. I stand in airports outside
the "official changers" booths examining their rates boards
and muttering loudly about the iniquitous business they run.
If I can save even one poor lost soul per trip from their
foul grasp I feel I've done some good. Imprecations about
highway robbers still being alive and in business seem to
also go down well with the incumbents. [[Look at buy & sell
rates for cash on their board. Take average (either half way
between or if keen multiply 2 rates together and take square
root) and then work out how many % above and below this mid
point their rates are. That is essentially their profit
margin. People who charge in the 10% to 20%+ range for a
single currency exchange and THEN add a stiff 'fee" as well
are thieves of the first order. For some currencies the rate
is higher again.

For initial funds, exchanging at best available rate at home
and carrying in person can be cheapest as long as you can
manage to not be parted from your money. Countries have
maximum undeclared amounts that you can carry but I imagine
you'd be below such limits (I am!) and it is usually legal
to carry more - you just have to declare it).

Where in Asia?


       Russell

2008\07\15@043507 by Apptech

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And yes, by all means, get a credit card. You should be able
to use it if you
end up shopping at high-street shops (not regular mom+pop
shops). Just
remember that there is usually a surcharge for purchasing by
credit card
(about 3% or so).

/>

In NZ that's true. I have been surprised to find that in
various other countries people often do NOT charge any extra
for using credit cards. This may vary with location. eg
Hongkong electronic stores seemed to add no extra. Australia
also.



       Russell


2008\07\15@043549 by Tomás Ó hÉilidhe

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Another thing I need to look into is how I'm going to bring my initial
lump sum over with me. I'm bringing about 2 or 3 thousand Euro, and I've
considered bringing it over as a few 500 Euro notes. I can strap it to
the inside of my leg, and even if I get mugged they'll never know I have it.

Would I have trouble exchanging large notes over in Thailand? Am I
likely to get searched by police at any time, and if so will they rob me?


Roger, in Bangkok wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\07\15@050649 by cdb

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It might be worth checking with your current bank if they have;

1. Branches in the foreign country that allow access to retail
accounts.

2. Reciprocating rights with another bank, most large banks have a
reciprocating bank as far as foreign currency transactions are
concerned.

3.Open a foreign currency account if possible with your own bank, you
should then be able to go into a foreign bank and withdraw money.

Lloyds used to have foreign branches, though mainly in Europe.

4. You might even find a bank for the country you're going to that has
an office in Ireland and will allow you to set up an account, then you
can not only preload the account, if you have internet banking access,
you'd be able to log on, withdraw and drop off!

Of course annoyingly banks like RBS don't allow international
transactions via the internet, where as all the banks in Australia do.

Colin
--
cdb, .....colinKILLspamspam@spam@btech-online.co.uk on 15/07/2008

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2008\07\15@051223 by Apptech

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> I would rather open an account in the residing country if
> it is going
> to be a long while, and then do the transfer through
> paypal when
> necessary.

Paypal seems to me to be an expensive way to move money. Do
I have a wrong impression?



           Russell

2008\07\15@051340 by cdb

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You should check the customs regulations for the country you are going
to, some still have exchange controls - Australia for example has to
be notified if more than AU$10,000 in cash is flowing through it's
borders either way, otherwise it's a possible jail sentence. In fact
all banking transactions go through a special unit, just most of the
time it is invisible..

One other thought is if your debit card is Maestro logo'ed, then
you'll be able to use it in any  shop or bank that is Maestro
affiliated. Beware though of things like in my recent return to the
UK, my UK bank cards are now chip enabled but my Australian credit
cards aren't. Many shops refused to take them because  they have
thrown out their paper vouchers and only geared up with pin number
access, although they are still supposed to take both.

Colin

:: Another thing I need to look into is how I'm going to bring my
:: initial
:: lump sum over with me. I'm bringing about 2 or 3 thousand Euro,
:: and I've
:: considered bringing it over as a few 500 Euro notes. I can strap
:: it to
:: the inside of my leg, and even if I get mugged they'll never know
:: I have it.
::
:: Would I have trouble exchanging large notes over in Thailand? Am I
:: likely to get searched by police at any time, and if so will they
:: rob me
--
cdb, colinspamKILLspambtech-online.co.uk on 15/07/2008

Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

Hosted by:  http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359

Friendship multiplies the good of life and divides the evil.
Baltasar Gracian





2008\07\15@052827 by Richard Prosser

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I'd get a visa card. If you need to get additional funds, money can be
transferred into the account in Irelend (I assume - it works OK in
NZ).

Personally, I wouldn't carry large amounts of money around with me. If
you have to carry it, spread it around in different areas of your
person so you're not likely to loose it all at once.

Don't try & hide it from police or (especially) customs as they may
think you're involved with illegal activity if they do find it.

Cops are not too likely to rob you  - at worst you might have to pay
an "instant fine" if you do something slightly silly & attract
attention. (If you do something really silly & get caught then all
bets are off).

But YMMV.

RP


2008/7/15 Tomás Ó hÉilidhe <.....toeKILLspamspam.....lavabit.com>:
{Quote hidden}

>

2008\07\15@054822 by peter green

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> Paypal seems to me to be an expensive way to move money. Do
> I have a wrong impression?
>  
It depends on how much money, when I enquired about an international
bank transfer (uk-germany) there was a flat fee (arround a tenner IIRC)
for all transactions up to a fairly large ammount (£10k or so iirc). I
don't know how favourable the exchange rate was but I would expect it to
be reasonable.

Paypal has a much smaller upfront fee but takes a relatively high
percentage fee. Therefore it is a decent choice for small transactions
but bank transfers would probablly become cheaper past a few hundred pounds.

This will almost certainly vary depending on the banks and currancies
you are dealing with.

However you move money arround I would think a local bank account would
be pretty damn important to allow you to make your day to day
transactions without unacceptable fees (keeping large ammounts of cash
seems unwise to me).

2008\07\15@061103 by Richard Prosser

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Tomas,

Re the local bank account.

I don't know what Thailand is like but a few years ago Malaysian banks
were very restrictive about what you could & couldn't do until you had
a good credit record built up - over a period of years. It may be
different in Thailand and it may well be different now in Malaysia but
if you want to set up a local account, it might be best to ask your
current bank for their advice / contacts / affiliations etc.

RP

2008/7/15 peter green <EraseMEplugwashspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTp10link.net>:
{Quote hidden}

>

2008\07\15@064404 by Apptech

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This got bounced by the server for some reason:

From: "Shawn Tan" <ssnt2spamspam_OUTeng.cam.ac.uk>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public."
<@spam@piclistKILLspamspammit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Getting cash abroad


On Tuesday 15 July 2008 09:35:17 Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:
> Would I have trouble exchanging large notes over in
> Thailand? Am I
> likely to get searched by police at any time, and if so
> will they rob me?

You may also have to look at different laws about the amount
of cash that a
person is allowed to carry across borders. Some countries
require you to
declare them.

It is generally not a great idea to travel with large notes.
Smaller local
money changers may not carry enough currency to change them.

And don't put all your eggs in one basket.

--
with metta,
Shawn Tan

Centre for Advanced Photonics and Electronics
Department of Engineering, University of Cambridge
9 JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA, UK.

2008\07\15@064726 by SM Ling

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>> I would rather open an account in the residing country if
>> it is going
>> to be a long while, and then do the transfer through
>> paypal when
>> necessary.
>
> Paypal seems to me to be an expensive way to move money. Do
> I have a wrong impression?

It depends on the amount as peter has pointed out.  I am picturing,
for large amount he shall hand-carry when he does home-visiting,
probably through cashier check drawn on foreign bank.  And the paypal
transfer is only for smaller amount and of low frequency.  Bank
transfer should not be the way, as there are high transfer cost and
"cable" cost.  The over-the-counter exchange rate for bank and credit
card was also not good.  WU, no way.

Ling SM

2008\07\15@070403 by Roger, in Bangkok

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All things get more and more restrictive with time.  You cannot even open a
bank account, setup a broadband internet account or buy a post-pay cellphone
account without a workpermit.  Work permit requires a letter of employment
from a Thai company in order to get the proper visa BEFORE entering
Thailand.  The processing time for the workpermit application is 3 - 12
months, and if granted then your visa is extended up to one year from date
of application and the work permit is issued, allowing for bank accounts,
telephones, internet at home, etc.

The work permit is not a document that allows you to go find work, like a US
social security number does.  It restricts you to one specific job
description, working for one specific company in one specific physical
location;-)

Extensions, renewals and changing jobs gets even messier yet, but see if you
can get this far first.

There are many Irishmen with Thai wives, network locally for the horror
stories and tips.  If you are over 50 (and have money!) you may qualify for
a retirement visa.  If you get caught working on a retirement visa expect a
long sit in jail and do not expect any successful intervention on your
behalf by embassies, churches, family, etc.  Having a Thai wife helps a
little bit, having a child by a Thai wife removes most barriers.

Regards/Roger, in Bangkok

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Richard Prosser <KILLspamrhprosserKILLspamspamgmail.com>
wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> > --

2008\07\15@073930 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Roger, in Bangkok wrote:

> The work permit is not a document that allows you to go find work, like a US
> social security number does.  

FWIW, a US SSN is no indication or proof of visa status. If you work in the
US, under any status, you must have one, but that's about as far as it
goes, relationship-wise. You get to keep it after your visa expires, and
you're not allowed to work then anymore, even though you still have a SSN.

> It restricts you to one specific job description, working for one
> specific company in one specific physical location;-)

This is exactly how a normal US work visa works (the often talked about
H1B, for example). You may or may not get a permanent visa (the pink "green
card" :) after a while, but until then you're restricted to the one
specific job at that one specific company in that one specific location you
got the visa for.

Gerhard

2008\07\15@074529 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:

> 4) Put the money into my Irish bank account, and then I'll use my Cirrus
> card to withdraw it from an ATM
> [...]
> I'm liking option 4 at the moment, and they only take 3% of the amount
> you withdraw with a maximum of 12 Euro charge. So if I withdraw 300
> Euro, it will cost me 9 Euro. If I withdraw 5 million Euro, it will cost
> me 12 Euro.

I think you can find banks with cheaper rates for ATM withdrawals in
foreign currencies. The way this fee structure works is not good for travel
-- you don't want to withdraw large amounts, you want to withdraw small
amounts, often.

Gerhard

2008\07\15@074958 by Roger, in Bangkok

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tnx Gerhard, after 20 years there's not much recognizable back there, but
always interested nonetheless ...

RiB

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 6:38 PM, Gerhard Fiedler <spamBeGonelistsspamBeGonespamconnectionbrazil.com>
wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\07\15@091937 by Rolf

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In most places i have travelled and lived, the credit card is the
expected form of payment for many things. There is no additional charge
for paying by CC. Still, this can work to your advantage because it
allows you to negotiate on price if you pay cash. I have negotiated a
few % off in most places I shop when I offer to pay cash instead of CC.
This is especially true in smaller establishments where the cash
transaction may not run through the official books hence evading tax....
but that is not your moral dilemma to worry about....

Rolf

Apptech wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\07\15@111805 by Bob Ammerman

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomás Ó hÉilidhe" <TakeThisOuTtoeEraseMEspamspam_OUTlavabit.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <RemoveMEpiclistspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 4:35 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Getting cash abroad


>
>
> Another thing I need to look into is how I'm going to bring my initial
> lump sum over with me. I'm bringing about 2 or 3 thousand Euro, and I've
> considered bringing it over as a few 500 Euro notes. I can strap it to
> the inside of my leg, and even if I get mugged they'll never know I have
> it.

My daughter just moved to China and took about US$2000 with her. Having been
there before, she knew *not* to take $100 bills. The largest that she could
clear in China, even at a bank (!) was a $50!

We later used a bank wire to send her about US$6000 for which we paid
$20-$30 at our end (Key Bank), and I think it cost her a similar amount at
her end (Bank of China). I'm not sure if her BOC account is denominated in
US$ or Chinese RMB, and if the latter I don't know how fair an exchange rate
she got.

I can second the HSBC account at home <-> HSBC account abroad idea. We
almost moved our personal account to HSBC to be able to do this with Sharon

-- Bob Ammerman

2008\07\15@112057 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 20:32 +1200, Apptech wrote:
> And yes, by all means, get a credit card. You should be able
> to use it if you
> end up shopping at high-street shops (not regular mom+pop
> shops). Just
> remember that there is usually a surcharge for purchasing by
> credit card
> (about 3% or so).
>
> />
>
> In NZ that's true. I have been surprised to find that in
> various other countries people often do NOT charge any extra
> for using credit cards. This may vary with location. eg
> Hongkong electronic stores seemed to add no extra. Australia
> also.

It's very rare to see a surcharge for using credit cards in North
America. About the only place it every happens is in extremely low
margin shops like small computer shops.

In the few places I've been in Europe I've never seen a surcharge.

TTYL

2008\07\15@112905 by Adam Field

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A lot (or all, I don't know) of credit card company to merchant
agreements forbid a surcharge for credit card use. I believe that's
the only reason the surcharges aren't prevalent in the US.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Herbert Graf <mailinglist4EraseMEspam.....farcite.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\07\15@114940 by Alan B. Pearce

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>In the few places I've been in Europe I've never seen a surcharge.

In Europe there is a tendency to use debit cards as a preference, as there
is no fee on the retailer by the bank like there is for a credit card. Major
use for credit cards is on-line purchase, but if you go to the shop they do
prefer the debit card.

2008\07\15@132352 by Funny NYPD

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What happens if Americans go to Canada?
Is there a easy way to get Canadian $ cash with US $ in Canada?
Is US $ popular/can be used in Canada? There are long boarder between US and Canada, curious how those frequent traveler handles this issue. For instance I hear there are six thousands people from Windsor Canada travels daily between the twin town: Detroit and Windsor. What currency will they use for daily life? Credit card/debit card or cash?

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.com



{Original Message removed}

2008\07\15@140702 by Bob Ammerman

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> It's very rare to see a surcharge for using credit cards in North
> America. About the only place it every happens is in extremely low
> margin shops like small computer shops.
>
> In the few places I've been in Europe I've never seen a surcharge.

I could be wrong, but I think a prohbition against charging more for a
credit-card is in most merchant agreements that you sign to become a
merchant (at least in the US).

-- Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

2008\07\15@143030 by mrresp1

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merchants 'get around' this legally (in new york anyway) (including gas
stations) by stating that all pricing is posted for cash (at x% discount).
you 'lose the cash discount' when paying with plastic... (thus, this is not
a surcharge but rather a recovery of the cash discount ....yeah,
yeah...double-talk and so forth...(-: )..

m


{Original Message removed}

2008\07\15@144025 by Carl Denk

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I don't think that stops them from offering a discount for cash. With
the recent increases in vehicle fuel prices, some independent gas
stations have been offering a cash discount. Then they can price the
regular price accordingly and it's not charging more.

Bob Ammerman wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\07\15@190011 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 10:23 -0700, Funny NYPD wrote:
> What happens if Americans go to Canada?
> Is there a easy way to get Canadian $ cash with US $ in Canada?
> Is US $ popular/can be used in Canada? There are long boarder between
> US and Canada, curious how those frequent traveler handles this issue.
> For instance I hear there are six thousands people from Windsor Canada
> travels daily between the twin town: Detroit and Windsor. What
> currency will they use for daily life? Credit card/debit card or cash?

Many "tourist" type places near the border accept US$ at a certain
exchange rate. These days it's usually set to par.

Aside from that though Americans do need CDN$ for most other things.
That said, getting CND$ is pretty darn easy, pretty much any ATM is
compatible with most bank cards from the states, and of course VISA is
universal and heavily used in Canada.

FWIW I rarely ever deal in any cash (aside from a pop machine perhaps).
Debit/credit card usage in Canada is VERY high, almost any store you can
name will accept either, or usually both.

TTYL

2008\07\15@193804 by Tamas Rudnai

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> Is there a easy way to get Canadian $ cash with US $ in Canada?

Canada is bilingual, so you need to print the amount in French as well on
the note to be accepted <grin>
You may also need the face of the Queen on top of it <grin>

Anyway, recently CDN was better than USD, first in 30 years or something?

Tamas


On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Funny NYPD <EraseMEfunnynypdspamyahoo.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2008\07\15@200243 by cdb

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:: Canada is bilingual, so you need to print the amount in French as
:: well on
:: the note to be accepted <grin>
:: You may also need the face of the Queen on top of it <grin>

I didn't notice it whilst I was there (too busy getting the self
service checkout machine confused), but Marks and Spencers in the UK
were toying with the idea of having multicurrency aware tills,
certainly for their central London stores. I know Heathrow Duty Free
has multilingual tills.

Certainly in Australia,Europe, US, Singapore and Honk Kong, I've used
mainly credit card or debit cards, though if Hungry Jacks at Auckland
Airport would take debit cards or foreign currency it'd be nice.

I normally take 100 of whaever currency I need in coinage/notes, and
pay for as much as possible using cards, apart from a certain
Californian Taxi driver who through my card away, because his machine
didn't work, and he charged me a $15.00 tip for a $6.00 ride from
Carlsbad Airport to the Hotel, just 3 miles away.

More importantly make sure whatever country you go to, understands
STRONG tea - and the problems of making tea in a coffee maker!

Colin
--
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Friendship multiplies the good of life and divides the evil.
Baltasar Gracian





2008\07\15@203421 by Tomás Ó hÉilidhe

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cdb wrote:
> More importantly make sure whatever country you go to, understands
> STRONG tea - and the problems of making tea in a coffee maker!


Another thing is milk. People in Ireland and the UK tend to go on
holidays to Spain in the Summer, but the milk's always horrible. Slices
of bread are ridiculously undersized there too. And the eggs are funny.
Plus if you ask for a rare steak, they actually give you raw meat; no
joke, you bite into it and it feels like a jelly, nothing like cooked
meat at all.

2008\07\15@204532 by Cedric Chang

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Really, it is time to see a currency , public or private ,  that is  
accepted everywhere.  The dollar is a bad choice since the US  
Government keeps printing dollars in an attempt to keep afloat.  It  
would be great to see a private currency that was stable and  
universally accepted.

cc



2008\07\15@205559 by cdb

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How about 100 Esperanti to the Esperanto?

Personally I'd prefer Niblicks, "can you spare a niblick or two" has a
ring to it.

Colin

:: Really, it is time to see a currency , public or private ,  that is
:: accepted everywhere.  The dollar is a bad choice since the US
:: Government keeps printing dollars in an attempt to keep afloat.  It
:: would be great to see a private currency that was stable and
:: universally accepted.
--
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2008\07\15@210938 by Tomás Ó hÉilidhe

picon face


cdb wrote:
> Personally I'd prefer Niblicks, "can you spare a niblick or two" has a
> ring to it.


I like shmoolies, as in "it cost me 50 shmoolies". (rhymes with smoothies)

2008\07\15@211106 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Jul 15, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Cedric Chang wrote:

> The dollar is a bad choice since the US Government keeps printing  
> dollars in an attempt to keep afloat.

Alas, most countries seem to do that.  Until quite recently, the  
dollar was one of the more stable currencies.

> It would be great to see a private currency that was stable and  
> universally accepted.

Based on what?  Precious metals and similar are silly.  Everything  
else isn't stable...

BillW

2008\07\15@211255 by Cedric Chang

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Or "a niblick for your thoughts" might work.  "niblick wise and  
nockblock foolish" resonates.
But please be serious about my profound ponderings.
cc

{Quote hidden}

2008\07\15@212946 by Cedric Chang

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>
> On Jul 15, 2008, at 7:10 PM, William Chops Westfield wrote:
>
>
> On Jul 15, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Cedric Chang wrote:
>
>> The dollar is a bad choice since the US Government keeps printing
>> dollars in an attempt to keep afloat.
>
> Alas, most countries seem to do that.  Until quite recently, the
> dollar was one of the more stable currencies.
>
>> It would be great to see a private currency that was stable and
>> universally accepted.
>
> Based on what?  Precious metals and similar are silly.  Everything
> else isn't stable...
>
> BillW

You got me there.   Maybe Stablanium.
cc

2008\07\15@214812 by Funny NYPD

picon face
Are you talking about gold as a currency, or e-gold, etc?

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.com



{Original Message removed}

2008\07\15@222020 by Apptech

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>> It would be great to see a private currency that was
>> stable and
>> universally accepted.
>
> Based on what?  Precious metals and similar are silly.
> Everything
> else isn't stable...

Big Macs.
" ... Promises to pay on demand the sum of 100,000 Big Macs
..."

But, then you'd have to eat them.



           R

2008\07\15@222020 by Apptech

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>
My daughter just moved to China
/>

To the same city that I was in for a week recently
(Qingdao).
It would have been interesting to say hello but I was so
utterly buried with work that it didn't happen.

I just had my 4th Rabies-vaccine shot today. One more to go
in a weeks time. The dog lived :-).
[[My fault entirely - play fighting with an ultra bouncy
off-duty guard dog. Minor tooth-in-arm event. Here a nothing
event. There a series of Rabies shots (4000+ dead each year
from Rabies in China). ]].

Hmmm - that's a thought. Bob - has your daughter had Rabies
shots along with all the others she will have had? Very
cheap in China compared to here. And chances are that the
hospital supplied anti-virus is in fact genuine. I took
photos of labelling etc on everything I was injected with.

Tomás - may be something you want to add to your list of
must-do's before leaving?




       Russell

2008\07\15@222021 by Apptech

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flavicon
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>> Personally I'd prefer Niblicks, "can you spare a niblick
>> or two" has a
>> ring to it.

I have a Niblick in the basement. As it's the only one I've
seen actually labelled as such I'd rather not spare it. I
think it may be a Mashie-Niblick

       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashie-niblick

If you were enquiring about the 1960's Nevada Niblicks then
there may yet be people all too eager to spare a few.

       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Niblick




       Russell

2008\07\15@223151 by Apptech

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flavicon
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> It would be great to see a private currency that was
> stable and
> universally accepted.

Would that be run by Western Union?, Paypal?, VISA?,
Travelex?, ... . ?

The overwhelming majority of international monetary
transfers that occur at present are "churn" initiated by
private enterprise as a way of making money out of the
exchange rate system. I'm sure that some of the players
would dearly love to have a private currency to control.

But, wait, you said stable. OK. Not a problem. None of the
above are a danger.


           R

2008\07\16@000813 by Cedric Chang

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Yes, something like that.  I have not studied what is available.
cc

> On Jul 15, 2008, at 7:48 PM, Funny NYPD wrote:
>
> Are you talking about gold as a currency, or e-gold, etc?
>
>  Funny N.
> Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.com
>
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

2008\07\16@001947 by Roger, in Bangkok

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We already have it, at least in the "here" part of everywhere.  24K gold
jewelry is worn, carried hoarded in most of south east Asia.  You can pawn
or it, or simply sell it for very near spot price anywhere in the region.
There is barely any markup for craftsmanship on that account.  Set stones
are typically allowed for as part of the weight unless sized to an extreme.
The little bits of gold that I have are now worth many-fold what they cost
... I am pleased with the investment:-)

And those who choose to openly wear and flaunt their gold are typically
separated from it in short order, the same as those who flash around large
wads of currency.

Regards/Roger, in Bangkok

On 7/16/08, Cedric Chang <EraseMEccspamspamspamBeGonenope9.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\07\16@002449 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 08:45 PM 7/15/2008, you wrote:
>Really, it is time to see a currency , public or private ,  that is
>accepted everywhere.  The dollar is a bad choice since the US
>Government keeps printing dollars in an attempt to keep afloat.  It
>would be great to see a private currency that was stable and
>universally accepted.
>
>cc

Maybe, in a few years, the Yuan (CNY). It seems to be pretty stable
in real value,
even through the Asian contagion of the late 90's. It has to be made freely
convertible first, of course.

>Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
RemoveMEspeffKILLspamspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com



2008\07\16@003535 by Apptech

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> But please be serious about my profound ponderings.

Please forward same for consideration.


       R

2008\07\16@003535 by Apptech

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> ... Hungry Jacks at Auckland Airport

Didn't know we had any HJs.
That's an ozzie perversion created when BK name was taken by
someone else.
They now I'm told have BK & HJ in Oz.

But, then you have to eat them.


       R

2008\07\16@005811 by Roger, in Bangkok

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The Singapore dollar seems to remain the most stable currency in this
region, and is easily exchanged across the counter of any bank with a
foreign currency counter.

RiB

On 7/16/08, Spehro Pefhany <speffSTOPspamspamspam_OUTinterlog.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\07\16@072630 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
mrresp1 wrote:

>> I could be wrong, but I think a prohbition against charging more for a
>> credit-card is in most merchant agreements that you sign to become a
>> merchant (at least in the US).
>
> merchants 'get around' this legally (in new york anyway) (including gas
> stations) by stating that all pricing is posted for cash (at x% discount).
> you 'lose the cash discount' when paying with plastic... (thus, this is not
> a surcharge but rather a recovery of the cash discount ....yeah,
> yeah...double-talk and so forth...(-: )..

FWIW, I think it's only fair to offer a cash discount, and the real problem
is the merchant agreement that tries to interfere with the merchant's price
calculation.

If a credit card transaction costs money, why should the merchant not be
allowed to pass that on? It's your choice then -- either it's worth it for
you, or it isn't. This is something that the market is perfectly capable of
"regulating".  

Gerhard

2008\07\16@072800 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
William "Chops" Westfield wrote:

>> It would be great to see a private currency that was stable and  
>> universally accepted.
>
> Based on what?  Precious metals and similar are silly.  Everything  
> else isn't stable...

Based on the universal acceptance and the trust that this will continue to
be so, without fraud getting in the way.

Gerhard

2008\07\16@074559 by Apptech

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flavicon
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> Based on the universal acceptance and the trust that this
> will continue to
> be so, without fraud getting in the way.

Ah, the first flying pigs based currency ! :-)


       R

2008\07\16@082942 by Tomás Ó hÉilidhe

picon face

Apptech wrote:
> Tomás - may be something you want to add to your list of
> must-do's before leaving?


I've already gotten the Hepatitis B vaccine, they recommend it for
people who'll be in contact with bodily fluids, so I opted for it coz
I'll be doing Thai Boxing in Thailand.

I don't leave til September 2nd, but before then I'll be getting shots
for: Hepatitis A, Diphtheria, Typhoid, a few others.

I've a cousin living in Vientiane in Laos, so I'm going to go stay with
him first, get used to the food and the climate and all that, maybe even
pick up a bit of the language. Then I think I'll be heading somewhere
like Chiang Mai to do some training.

2008\07\16@083124 by Tomás Ó hÉilidhe

picon face


Apptech wrote:
> Big Macs.
> " ... Promises to pay on demand the sum of 100,000 Big Macs
> ..."
>
> But, then you'd have to eat them.


They make good projectiles. I mean have you *ever* seen someone throw a
burger out the window of a moving car at someone? It's quite hilarious.
I heard about an incident one time where a 3-in-1 curry was thrown out
of a moving car at someone, sadly I wasn't there to witness it but I
hear it was one of the funniest things to ever happen on Earth.

2008\07\16@104818 by Mongol Herdsman

picon face
On 7/15/08, Tomás Ó hÉilidhe <spamBeGonetoeSTOPspamspamEraseMElavabit.com> wrote:
> I'm going to live in Asia for a while and I'm looking at ways of
> transferring money from my home country (Ireland).

What part of Asia - Iran, Mongolia, Siberia, Vietnam, Israel, Tibet,
Turkmenistan?
There is no a universal receipt. Our shaman sez the question seems to
belong to 419 scam.

2008\07\16@114950 by Alex Harford

face picon face
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Apptech <KILLspamapptechspamBeGonespamparadise.net.nz> wrote:
>
> [[My fault entirely - play fighting with an ultra bouncy
> off-duty guard dog. Minor tooth-in-arm event. Here a nothing
> event. There a series of Rabies shots (4000+ dead each year
> from Rabies in China). ]].

Dogs or people!?

I've had my rabies vaccine as well, due to sleeping in the same room
as a bat family at my parents' cabin... never caught the bat, so
everyone was sent to the health units for shots.  Hope your arms feel
better soon.

2008\07\16@164903 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Jul 16, 2008, at 5:30 AM, Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:

> I heard about an incident one time where a 3-in-1 curry was thrown out
> of a moving car at someone, sadly I wasn't there to witness it but I
> hear it was one of the funniest things to ever happen on Earth.

Got got water-ballooned from a moving car while I was walking down  
the street once.  I didn't think it was funny at all...

BillW

2008\07\16@172555 by Nate Duehr

face
flavicon
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William "Chops" Westfield wrote:
> On Jul 16, 2008, at 5:30 AM, Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:
>
>> I heard about an incident one time where a 3-in-1 curry was thrown out
>> of a moving car at someone, sadly I wasn't there to witness it but I
>> hear it was one of the funniest things to ever happen on Earth.
>
> Got got water-ballooned from a moving car while I was walking down  
> the street once.  I didn't think it was funny at all...

Had a huge dent in my first car from some dork throwing a pumpkin from a
moving car into it while it was parked.

They didn't pay for the damage to the vehicle or leave a note or
anything, and I couldn't afford to repair it at the time.

I too, have no sense of humor nor find projectiles launched from moving
cars to be funny.

2008\07\16@184918 by Apptech

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> I heard about an incident one time where a 3-in-1 curry
> was thrown out
> of a moving car at someone, sadly I wasn't there to
> witness it but I
> hear it was one of the funniest things to ever happen on
> Earth.

Got got water-ballooned from a moving car while I was
walking down
the street once.  I didn't think it was funny at all...
/>

While on a motor scoter, I received a small stone in the
groin at 30 mph horizontal and ? vertical - dropped from a
road bridge by a child. I chased them in a pained and rather
hobbling state. They fled uncaught but got the idea.


       Russell

2008\07\16@233400 by cdb

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:::::: I heard about an incident one time where a 3-in-1 curry was
:::::: thrown out
:::::: of a moving car at someone, sadly I wasn't there to witness
:::::: it but I
:::::: hear it was one of the funniest things to ever happen on
:::::: Earth.
::::::
:::: Got got water-ballooned from a moving car while I was walking
:::: down
:::: the street once.  I didn't think it was funny at all...
::::
:: Had a huge dent in my first car from some dork throwing a pumpkin
:: from a
:: moving car into it while it was parked.
::
:: They didn't pay for the damage to the vehicle or leave a note or
:: anything, and I couldn't afford to repair it at the time.

I know of someone who was on holiday in Ireland (Republic of) who
suffered severe spinal injuries due to a cow jumping over a wall onto
the  car roof.  Apparently  the car looked as though a Volvo had
fallen on it from a great hight.

Colin
--
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2008\07\17@080002 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Apptech wrote:

>> Based on the universal acceptance and the trust that this will continue
>> to be so, without fraud getting in the way.
>
> Ah, the first flying pigs based currency ! :-)

Is there any other currency? It's all based on trust: the trust that the
currency still will have value tomorrow. Watch the USD exchange rate and
see what happens when the trust diminishes. (The gold standard doesn't
change this; it just replaces the trust in a government with the trust in
people in general always hording gold and nobody finding a way to "make"
cheap gold and neither a big, really big mine.)

Gerhard

2008\07\23@010704 by Apptech

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> I'll be doing Thai Boxing in Thailand.

>From the midst of another post:

Here's Tomás Ó hÉilidhe at play.
He's the man in red here.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msjISY11J5M

The result went against him, but to my untrained eye both
were about equal and quite competent enough for me to not
want to get anywhere near such action. Doesn't really hurt
while you are doing it, apparently. I was impressed by the
apparent genuineness of the interactions after the fight.
Hopefully we can manage this as well in all cases on
PICList. By the time he gets to Thailand he'll be doing this
without the protective midriff or other softening, except
for the gloves. Seems to me that gloves are not the greatest
of one's fears here :-).


       Russell

2008\07\23@182436 by Cedric Chang

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It appears to me that the flames on the shorts of his opponent really  
made a big difference.  Are they allowed to kick each other in the  
nut-crackers ?
cc

{Quote hidden}

2008\07\23@185647 by Tomás Ó hÉilidhe

picon face
Cedric Chang wrote:
> It appears to me that the flames on the shorts of his opponent really  
> made a big difference.


Em... ? Okey Dokey.


>   Are they allowed to kick each other in the  
> nut-crackers ?


No, you can't. You probably don't want to hit him there anyway coz the
groin guards are made out of steel.

2008\07\23@202503 by cdb

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::::   Are they allowed to kick each other in the
:::: nut-crackers ?
::::
::
:: No, you can't. You probably don't want to hit him there anyway coz
:: the
:: groin guards are made out of steel.

Well this is getting waaay off topic, but I used to do Karate when I
was 18 or so, we didn't wear guards, but I know of someone who broke
their toe, by foot connection to the pubis, they were actually aiming
for a side kick to the inside of the leg, but sort of got their
trajectory wrong.

Colin
--
cdb, @spam@colin@spam@spamspam_OUTbtech-online.co.uk on 24/07/2008

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Friendship multiplies the good of life and divides the evil.
Baltasar Gracian





2008\07\23@221154 by Tomás Ó hÉilidhe

picon face


cdb wrote:
> Well this is getting waaay off topic, but I used to do Karate when I
> was 18 or so, we didn't wear guards, but I know of someone who broke
> their toe, by foot connection to the pubis, they were actually aiming
> for a side kick to the inside of the leg, but sort of got their
> trajectory wrong.

Might be why Thai's kick exclusively with the shin :-)

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