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'[OT] Genesis crash linked to upside-down (sensor) '
2004\10\16@164830 by Peter Johansson

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>From the d'oh! department...


Genesis crash linked to upside-down design

17:18 15 October 04

NewScientist.com news service


Sensors to detect deceleration on NASA's Genesis space capsule were
installed correctly but had been designed upside down, resulting in
the failure to deploy the capsules parachutes. The design flaw is the
prime suspect for why the capsule, carrying precious solar wind ions,
crashed in Utah on 8 September, according to a NASA investigation
board.


Remainder of the article available at:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996541

-p.
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2004\10\16@180325 by Josh Koffman

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I think the only response must be:

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

(Since I'm being a little obscure, it's a reference to the Star Trek
movies, they also had a project named Genesis, and Khan being a
protagonist in one of the films)

:)

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:48:29 -0400, Peter Johansson <spam_OUTpeterTakeThisOuTspamelemental.org> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2004\10\16@190353 by Herbert Graf

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On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 18:02, Josh Koffman wrote:
> I think the only response must be:
>
> KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
>
> (Since I'm being a little obscure, it's a reference to the Star Trek
> movies, they also had a project named Genesis, and Khan being a
> protagonist in one of the films)

No need to explain, I got the reference immediately! :)

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

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2004\10\17@004059 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 04:48 PM 10/16/2004 -0400, you wrote:

> >From the d'oh! department...
>
>
>Genesis crash linked to upside-down design

www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/9932295.htm?1c
www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/genesis/main/index.html
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/66943main_g_switch_hires.jpg

$264,000,000.00 ..

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
.....speffKILLspamspam@spam@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com




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2004\10\17@072010 by Jake Anderson

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yaknow theres this thing called a "backup timer" that
hobby type people have been using for many many years....

you have your fancy one which pops your chute at just the
right time, and a timer set to go off a certain ammount of time
after you think that should happen. (generally both systems are totally
seperate with 2 pyros and the like)


> {Original Message removed}

2004\10\17@125535 by Dave VanHorn

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At 06:20 AM 10/17/2004, Jake Anderson wrote:

>yaknow theres this thing called a "backup timer" that
>hobby type people have been using for many many years....
>
>you have your fancy one which pops your chute at just the
>right time, and a timer set to go off a certain ammount of time
>after you think that should happen. (generally both systems are totally
>seperate with 2 pyros and the like)

In this case, it looks like the backup should have been a different sort of
switch.
The odds of getting both drawings reversed would have been astronomical (pun)

Also, there probably should have been a "sanity check" (if possible) when
the thing is sitting upright, "hey my switches are closed!", but it is hard
to think of things like this..  

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2004\10\17@183733 by hilip Stortz

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then there's always the option to actually test things on the ground!
the same thing happened with the Hubbell telescope, the company that
made the mirror wanted to test it, and would have done it for free, but
nasa refused to let them.  it got the Hubbell launched earlier, but
delayed it's correct functioning and cost a hell of a lot to fix!  nasa
seems to be having a lot of problems any more, though i've heard a lot
of good explanations for why, including erratic funding and management
problems which are likely a very, very large part of the problem.

Jake Anderson wrote:
>
> yaknow theres this thing called a "backup timer" that
> hobby type people have been using for many many years....
>
> you have your fancy one which pops your chute at just the
> right time, and a timer set to go off a certain ammount of time
> after you think that should happen. (generally both systems are totally
> seperate with 2 pyros and the like)
--------

--
President George W. Bush, Vice President Richard B. Cheney, Secretary of
Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld,
and Attorney General John D. Ashcroft have committed violations and
subversions of the Constitution
of the United States of America.  <http://www.VoteToImpeach.org>  They should
be charged with high treason
and as leaders deserve the highest penalty.  If there is no rule of law
there can be no civilization.
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2004\10\18@123652 by M. Adam Davis

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Should have used a multiple axis switch (or accelerometer) with a
computer function that told whether the switch was in a correct state at
any given time.

Should have also considered radio control - if chute doesn't pop in
time, pop it by command.  They were sufficiently close enough to send a
strong enough signal to command the thing.

Oh well.  I bet the design engineers and those who signed off on the
document are getting their beatings.

-Adam

Peter Johansson wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2004\10\18@134400 by gacrowell

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I've heard:

"designed upside down"
"incorrect engineering drawings"

>From the picture, it appears to be a Select Controls G-switch, (or one virtually identical to it), which is the very same used in most of the hobby rocketry electronics.  Its a switch originally used by the military for launch detect, in things like the Hellfire missile.  I know the documents at Select Controls must be correct (unless they've changed) because I've used it on a pc board, for timer initiation after launch detect, in a hobby rocketry electronics device.

I'll bet anything the error came in the CAD Schematic/PCB library component construction for that part.  Part was probably installed on the board exactly in the orientation shown on the silkscreen & passed all the visual 'inspections'.  2 switches in each of two systems, all laid out from the same pcb library & all wrong.

Gary Crowell




> {Original Message removed}

2004\10\18@135930 by Dave VanHorn

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>
>I'll bet anything the error came in the CAD Schematic/PCB library
>component construction for that part.  Part was probably installed on the
>board exactly in the orientation shown on the silkscreen & passed all the
>visual 'inspections'.  2 switches in each of two systems, all laid out
>from the same pcb library & all wrong.

That's where I'm thinking that a different sort of switch would have saved it.
Very unlikely to get two drawings wrong, from two different makers.

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