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'[OT] General etiquette - was Setting out PIC18 Ass'
From: "Olin Lathrop" <embedinc.com> olin_piclist
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 9:36 PM
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <mit.edu> piclist
Subject: Re: [PIC] Setting out PIC18 Assembly code
> Vitaliy wrote:
>> Andrew, this is an example of how our resident bully likes to
>> "toughen up" the newcomers. Best thing you can do is take the good
>> advice and ignore the insults. Worst thing you can do is take them
>> personally and get into a fight.
> So you think not reading the manual and asking a dumb question largely
> answered by the very warning message you are asking about is OK?
Yes IMHO it's "okay" - this is not an "offence"
I don't think need to go as far as viewing it as "allowing people to get
away with being lazy" and similar "offences".
Surely it's not that much of a big deal.
Please try and have a little more patience Olin - the OP has not been here
very long and is just beginning with stuff.
> As I think
> you also well know, this has nothing to do with being a newcomer, but
> getting people to use their own brain. You would get the same response if
> you asked a similar question that showed you didn't read the manual or the
> error message.
I understand vaguely where you are coming from, it's good to encourage
people to think for themselves - this is far better than just solving the
problem for them and they learn practically nothing. Knowing how to go about
solving problems is more important in my view than lots of factual
knowledge - you have to know how to use it.
BUT, surely pointing obvious (to you, maybe absolutely not for a
beginner)stuff out can be done less harshly. I know you don't care much
about this side of things but it would provoke far less reaction from
various people that can lead to unpleasantness etc, if you made a *little*
more effort in this area.
It's good to be firm sometimes, but I think it's also a good idea not to
possibly make people "afraid" of asking questions, as this works against
your overall goal of helping people learn (which I'm sure is your main
motive most of the time)
I know we've been through this a few times and it's getting a *little*
stale, but just reiterating my views on the subject..
I've been a PICList member for nearly 10 years. The FIRST response I
got to a message I posted was an unnecessarily rude response from
Olin based on my e-mail formatting (which turned out to be due to HIS
e-mail client settings).
Since then, this topic of conversation pops up every couple of months.
It's been a constant drain on the S/N ratio of the list- probably, in fact,
the greatest single contributing topic.
Olin will NEVER change (but then again, who does?). The best option
is probably to explicitly warn people about him on the sign-up page, and
to recognize that in all venues, at all times, there will be people for
whom the "be nice or say nothing" principle just doesn't exist.
A big part of growing up is realizing that the person being rude is the
one with the problem, and not taking their bad attitude personally.
I'm sure I'll grow up any day now.
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Oli Glaser <talktalk.net> wrote: oli.glaser
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