Post by thread:[OT] General etiquette - was Setting out PIC18 Ass

-------------------------------------------------- From: "Olin Lathrop" <spam_OUTolin_piclistTakeThisOuTembedinc.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 9:36 PM To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <.....piclistKILLspam@spam@mit.edu> Subject: Re: [PIC] Setting out PIC18 Assembly code > Vitaliy wrote: >> Andrew, this is an example of how our resident bully likes to >> "toughen up" the newcomers. Best thing you can do is take the good >> advice and ignore the insults. Worst thing you can do is take them >> personally and get into a fight. > > So you think not reading the manual and asking a dumb question largely > answered by the very warning message you are asking about is OK? Yes IMHO it's "okay" - this is not an "offence" I don't think need to go as far as viewing it as "allowing people to get away with being lazy" and similar "offences". Surely it's not that much of a big deal. Please try and have a little more patience Olin - the OP has not been here very long and is just beginning with stuff. > As I think > you also well know, this has nothing to do with being a newcomer, but > about > getting people to use their own brain. You would get the same response if > you asked a similar question that showed you didn't read the manual or the > error message. I understand vaguely where you are coming from, it's good to encourage people to think for themselves - this is far better than just solving the problem for them and they learn practically nothing. Knowing how to go about solving problems is more important in my view than lots of factual knowledge - you have to know how to use it. BUT, surely pointing obvious (to you, maybe absolutely not for a beginner)stuff out can be done less harshly. I know you don't care much about this side of things but it would provoke far less reaction from various people that can lead to unpleasantness etc, if you made a *little* more effort in this area. It's good to be firm sometimes, but I think it's also a good idea not to possibly make people "afraid" of asking questions, as this works against your overall goal of helping people learn (which I'm sure is your main motive most of the time) I know we've been through this a few times and it's getting a *little* stale, but just reiterating my views on the subject..

Oli- I've been a PICList member for nearly 10 years. The FIRST response I got to a message I posted was an unnecessarily rude response from Olin based on my e-mail formatting (which turned out to be due to HIS e-mail client settings). Since then, this topic of conversation pops up every couple of months. It's been a constant drain on the S/N ratio of the list- probably, in fact, the greatest single contributing topic. Olin will NEVER change (but then again, who does?). The best option is probably to explicitly warn people about him on the sign-up page, and to recognize that in all venues, at all times, there will be people for whom the "be nice or say nothing" principle just doesn't exist. A big part of growing up is realizing that the person being rude is the one with the problem, and not taking their bad attitude personally. I'm sure I'll grow up any day now. Mike H. On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Oli Glaser <oli.glaserKILLspamtalktalk.net> wrote: {Quote hidden}> > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Olin Lathrop" <.....olin_piclistKILLspam.....embedinc.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 9:36 PM > To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <EraseMEpiclistspam_OUTTakeThisOuTmit.edu> > Subject: Re: [PIC] Setting out PIC18 Assembly code > >> Vitaliy wrote: >>> Andrew, this is an example of how our resident bully likes to >>> "toughen up" the newcomers. Best thing you can do is take the good >>> advice and ignore the insults. Worst thing you can do is take them >>> personally and get into a fight. >> >> So you think not reading the manual and asking a dumb question largely >> answered by the very warning message you are asking about is OK? > > Yes IMHO it's "okay" - this is not an "offence" > I don't think need to go as far as viewing it as "allowing people to get > away with being lazy" and similar "offences". > Surely it's not that much of a big deal. > Please try and have a little more patience Olin - the OP has not been here > very long and is just beginning with stuff. > >> As I think >> you also well know, this has nothing to do with being a newcomer, but >> about >> getting people to use their own brain. You would get the same response if >> you asked a similar question that showed you didn't read the manual or the >> error message. > > I understand vaguely where you are coming from, it's good to encourage > people to think for themselves - this is far better than just solving the > problem for them and they learn practically nothing. Knowing how to go about > solving problems is more important in my view than lots of factual > knowledge - you have to know how to use it. > > BUT, surely pointing obvious (to you, maybe absolutely not for a > beginner)stuff out can be done less harshly. I know you don't care much > about this side of things but it would provoke far less reaction from > various people that can lead to unpleasantness etc, if you made a *little* > more effort in this area. > It's good to be firm sometimes, but I think it's also a good idea not to > possibly make people "afraid" of asking questions, as this works against > your overall goal of helping people learn (which I'm sure is your main > motive most of the time) > > I know we've been through this a few times and it's getting a *little* > stale, but just reiterating my views on the subject.. > > >