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'[OT] Fence Jumping'
2007\07\17@181208 by James Newtons Massmind

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> A friend of mine had problems with people jumping over his
> fence. He solved it by putting two strips of carpet tackstrip
> on the top of his fence. Not only was it a repellant, he also
> got a loud audible signal each time it got used :)


When I was in the Navy, my Divison Officer in the tron shop at VS-41 was
known to the other officers as BOF. We wondered for a good long time before
someone let slip that it was an acronym. B.O.F. Some time after that we
found out that he had come to the squadron while recovering from an injury
to his groin which occurred when he had attempted to hurdle a fence with
some sort of barbed wire at the top (apparently trying to impress a nurse
outside the naval hospital) and had not QUITE made the leap. The skin of his
crotch had been snagged by the wire and become stuck fast... Leaving his
Balls On Fence.

The sadist part is that the nurse, seeing that he was badly injured, came
running over and helped him, then later ended up dating the guy.

He was the same one who came back from a training flight white as a ghost
after a shift change and crappy inspection caused the stick to not be bolted
back down to the bracket it connects to in the floor. S3's sort of float in
on a field landing and apparently that was the first time he applied any
vertical pressure to the stick... Kind of going along with the float. So he
was landing the plane, in ground effect, just about to touch down, and the
stick comes up out of the floor when he pulls up on it. Half a second later
the bird touches down and he is steering with the pedals holding the stick
in the air. Man, the safety stand down after that one went on for days...

---
AT3 NEWTON.


2007\07\17@203046 by Nate Duehr

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On Jul 17, 2007, at 4:08 PM, James Newtons Massmind wrote:

> He was the same one who came back from a training flight white as a  
> ghost
> after a shift change and crappy inspection caused the stick to not  
> be bolted
> back down to the bracket it connects to in the floor. S3's sort of  
> float in
> on a field landing and apparently that was the first time he  
> applied any
> vertical pressure to the stick... Kind of going along with the  
> float. So he
> was landing the plane, in ground effect, just about to touch down,  
> and the
> stick comes up out of the floor when he pulls up on it. Half a  
> second later
> the bird touches down and he is steering with the pedals holding  
> the stick
> in the air. Man, the safety stand down after that one went on for  
> days...

Pre-Flight Checklist:

- Flight controls FREE and CORRECT.

Sounds like he didn't really give 'em a good yank during the standard  
pre-flight.   What a moron.

--
Nate Duehr
spam_OUTnateTakeThisOuTspamnatetech.com



2007\07\17@204346 by David VanHorn

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>
> - Flight controls FREE and CORRECT.
>
> Sounds like he didn't really give 'em a good yank during the standard
> pre-flight.   What a moron.

Happens all the time.  A friend of mine crashed a very nice model
helicopter that way.
His "preflight" was to wiggle all the sticks at once, and see that
everything was moving.
Unfortunately, two servos were in the wrong plugs.

They wiggled, but his ability to hover was significantly impaired.

2007\07\17@214143 by Nate Duehr

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On Jul 17, 2007, at 6:43 PM, David VanHorn wrote:

>>
>> - Flight controls FREE and CORRECT.
>>
>> Sounds like he didn't really give 'em a good yank during the standard
>> pre-flight.   What a moron.
>
> Happens all the time.  A friend of mine crashed a very nice model
> helicopter that way.
> His "preflight" was to wiggle all the sticks at once, and see that
> everything was moving.
> Unfortunately, two servos were in the wrong plugs.
>
> They wiggled, but his ability to hover was significantly impaired.

Hey your friend might like the old standard helicopter joke... since  
it probably applies to his situation... or perhaps he won't... but  
I'll share anyway...

-----

You know what helicopters are, don't you?

Thousands of spare parts, hovering in tight formation.

-----

Unfortunately no sympathy from here.  There's two parts to that  
checklist item, and he missed the CORRECT part of that check.  He did  
it wrong.  By only "wiggling" he only did the FREE part of the equation.

Hopefully he didn't hurt himself.

Not a helo pilot here, but in a fixed wing aircraft, grab yoke  
normally with only your right hand, and stick your thumb straight  
up.  Twist toward the left, counter-clockwise, the direction your  
thumb points.  Thumb in the air, points to the left... left aileron  
should have gone UP.  If it went DOWN, you're screwed and someone  
cross-rigged the airplane and apparently is trying to kill you.  
Wash, rinse, repeat with left hand on its normal position on the left  
side of the yoke.  Left thumb up, pointing toward right side of  
aircraft, means right aileron should deflect UP when you turn toward  
where your thumb is pointing.

And you MUST move the control surfaces and LOOK at both sides during  
each of these to make sure they're "CORRECT"... (the side opposite  
your thumb had better go down when the correct side goes UP) or you  
didn't complete the pre-flight correctly.  Period.

(By the way, the thumb trick works in a stick airplane too... grab  
stick with right hand, stick thumb out.  Push stick that direction,  
and that aileron should go up.  Same with left hand.  Then give the  
stick a pull and make sure the damn pin is in.  Some also advocate  
doing the "stick swish" in a big old circle to make sure you're  
"FREE" of everything.  That or just to give the guy in the other seat  
(if you have dual sticks) bruises on his legs.  Heh heh.  Spread 'em,  
dude... whack whack whack.  Good negative reinforcement/feedback for  
them not allowing their legs to clamp around your control stick!  I  
was always whacked by my instructor in the Schweitzer-233 glider,  
because the darn seat just isn't wide enough for me... I could push  
my legs against the outside walls of the aircraft and he could still  
reach one of them.  Especially on the left side where I would be  
trying not to jam up the spoiler control lever, because that test was  
definitely coming "next".   I learned to do the "seat dance" to slide  
my butt back and forth in time with the stick, both when flying and  
also when the instructor was about to whack me.  LOL!  When he was  
flying from the rear seat I got whacked a lot if he decided to  
reverse the aileron when I wasn't expecting it, so I learned to pay  
close attention to what he was doing.  Which, since I was a student,  
wasn't such a bad thing, really!)

Same with the elevator and rudder.  If you can not see the tail (like  
many commercial airliners) you'd better hope the maintenance guys  
aren't morons.  (Much harder to cross-rig, but it's happened... I  
hear.)  In fact, in US-certified aircraft if you can't see the flight  
controls, they're required to give you a flight control location  
indicator on the panel... so there's still no excuse.

And here's one people forget... and/or get in a hurry and never check...

While you have the yoke in your lap pulling back and seeing that the  
elevator came up... spin the trim tab a bit... see if it deflects the  
opposite direction to the elevator... (up trim means downward  
deflection and vice-versa).  A trim tab rigged backwards can also  
ruin your whole day right after takeoff if you're confused by it.  
You should always be able to overpower the trim tab on MOST aircraft  
at slow speeds, but it's not worth the risk to find out the hard way  
when you're busy.  You have to set it to the takeoff position anyway,  
and double-check it, so you might as well see if it's working right.  
(Many instructors don't teach anything about LOOKING at what the trim  
tab(s) are doing.  Shame.)

My instructor watched in horror recently as another instructor sent a  
pre-solo student to the aircraft by himself to do a pre-flight  
walkaround, and the instructor did NOT follow-up with one of his  
own.  Dangerous, stupid, and reckless, all in one "I need to get  
going with this flight" move.

I almost always fail the "FREE" check... my damn kneeboard is too big  
and if I slide the seat forward to where I'm comfortable, it gets hit  
during the left hand check.  I always have to screw with it to get it  
out of the way, and I usually  remove it right before landings, since  
even in "blood pressure cuff mode" (adjusted so tight it feels like a  
damn blood pressure cuff, cutting off blood flow to my right foot!)  
it slides down and gets in the way again...

(Note to self: I need to get a smaller kneeboard, or thinner thighs!  
Soon!  It was quite annoying on Friday when I really needed the  
kneeboard for some navigation logging and calculations.)

--
Nate Duehr
.....nateKILLspamspam@spam@natetech.com



2007\07\17@220115 by Nate Duehr

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On Jul 17, 2007, at 6:43 PM, David VanHorn wrote:

>>
>> - Flight controls FREE and CORRECT.
>>
>> Sounds like he didn't really give 'em a good yank during the standard
>> pre-flight.   What a moron.
>
> Happens all the time.  A friend of mine crashed a very nice model
> helicopter that way.
> His "preflight" was to wiggle all the sticks at once, and see that
> everything was moving.
> Unfortunately, two servos were in the wrong plugs.
>
> They wiggled, but his ability to hover was significantly impaired.

Hmm, I just re-read this and saw the word "model".

Well, I bet the crash was a lot less spectacular and hopefully less  
likely to hurt someone... although I suppose a model helo could still  
do some pretty severe damage to your average human not wearing  
various forms of protection!  :-)

--
Nate Duehr
natespamKILLspamnatetech.com



2007\07\18@035830 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Some also advocate doing the "stick swish" in a big old circle
>to make sure you're "FREE" of everything.  That or just to give
>the guy in the other seat (if you have dual sticks) bruises on
>his legs.

I remember doing a commercial flight in a 5/6 seater, and decided to sit
right up beside the pilot. taxiing out he gave the yoke a real good yank
back to its limits. I had all my appendages well tucked away, but I never
determined if he was looking to see what my reaction would be, or if this
was normal pre-flight check.

2007\07\18@173217 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
There's something I don't quite get here: why would you ever pull UP
on the stick? (I'm assuming that UP here means toward the canopy or
ceiling of the cockpit) Granted, it should be bolted down, but I would
not expect yanking on the stick in a direction it is NOT supposed to
move would be a normal part of preflight (just as you don't go around
yanking on everything in the cockpit to make sure it is bolted in).

Sean


On 7/17/07, Nate Duehr <.....nateKILLspamspam.....natetech.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\07\18@174916 by David VanHorn

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On 7/18/07, Sean Breheny <shb7spamspam_OUTcornell.edu> wrote:
> There's something I don't quite get here: why would you ever pull UP
> on the stick? (I'm assuming that UP here means toward the canopy or
> ceiling of the cockpit) Granted, it should be bolted down, but I would
> not expect yanking on the stick in a direction it is NOT supposed to
> move would be a normal part of preflight (just as you don't go around
> yanking on everything in the cockpit to make sure it is bolted in).

Trust, but Verify!

Seriously, if a radio isn't bolted in, it's an inconvenience, maybe a
hazard, but if the control stick isn't bolted in, you're in deep deep
kimchee.
It's worth checking.

2007\07\18@180500 by Nate Duehr

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Sean Breheny wrote:
> There's something I don't quite get here: why would you ever pull UP
> on the stick? (I'm assuming that UP here means toward the canopy or
> ceiling of the cockpit) Granted, it should be bolted down, but I would
> not expect yanking on the stick in a direction it is NOT supposed to
> move would be a normal part of preflight (just as you don't go around
> yanking on everything in the cockpit to make sure it is bolted in).
>
> Sean

Because most are held into the floor mechanism with a pin and safety
wire arrangement.  It can fail.

During pre-flight walk-around you also (should) push and pull on things
that can handle it.  One common example is the "pinch test" of the
horizonal stabilizer... put your hand right at the horizontal stab root
and pull the stab gently but firmly toward you, if there's a safe place
to tug on the leading edge, or the tip if your own personal "wingspan"
is that long.

If your hand/fingers get "pinched" (at least on the aircraft I fly - you
have to think about the underlying mechanical design), the horizontal
stabilizers through the tail spar is broken, and the thing's about to
fall off...

It's just stuff like that, that you can add to an otherwise "by the
checklist" pre-flight (these things get written ON my checklists and
added permanently to my routine) that can give you just a tiny bit more
peace of mind that everything's put together right, and in the right
places, etc.

I also make it a habit of gently, but firmly touching all the antennas I
can reach.  Had a transponder antenna fall off the belly once doing
that, as it had been replaced and wasn't re-attached properly.  Not
having a transponder isn't "life threatening" in most cases, but why not
actually touch the darn thing and make sure it's really attached to the
aircraft?  It's not on any checklist other than a generic blurb that
says, "Inspect condition of antennas and other external devices."

I've seen beginning pilots who were afraid to touch things on the
aircraft.  Sometimes it helps if someone reminds them the the antenna
they think is "fragile" puts up with 100+ MPH wind every time the bird
goes up... it can handle light pressure from your hand (in the proper
direction) during a pre-flight.

Another good test that few do, is grab either wingtip and rock the
airplane gently side to side, looking all the way across the aircraft
for any kinds of "odd" movement, like the wing isn't connected or has
internal damage unseen.  You do have to be careful of not hurting
fiberglass wingtips, but you don't have to grab those... just inboard of
those is fine... although if you're reasonably gentle, knowing the 30
year old fiberglass is still attached, is nice too.

Hmmm, another one... the "ping" test of the propeller.  Props "ring"
nicely when tapped with a finger near their tips.  If there's an
internal metal crack or other mechanical problems with a prop, you can
often times hear it if you tap the prop and it doesn't "ring"
properly... it'll sound dull or won't ring... we all slide our hands
down the leading edge of the prop (if we can reach them) and inspect
them for general condition during pre-flight, but a little "twang" with
the finger can sometimes reveal deeper problems.

What you truly hope during all of the above is that nothing shows up,
and you're ready to go flying... but little tricks like these are great,
and rarely (if ever) on "official" checklists.

I *have* seen the "pull upward on the control stick" one.  It was in an
Aviat Husky's checklist, if I remember correctly.

Plus... in all of the above... a pilot should physically engage the
brain with the aircraft.  All this touch/check routine continues into
the cockpit.  Setting changes are spoken out loud (especially in a
crew-coordination environment) and someone physically reaches out and
points at or touches the control that could/should be changed.  "Check
circuit breakers in" shouldn't be an eyeball exercise alone, it should
be an eyeball and hand exercise... push on them and make sure they're
really in.  Stuff like that.  THAT one, I've DEFINITELY found breakers
out... and then had to determine if they had popped or if the previous
pilot flying the aircraft had pulled them.

Nate

2007\07\18@181854 by Nate Duehr

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David VanHorn wrote:

> Trust, but Verify!
>
> Seriously, if a radio isn't bolted in, it's an inconvenience, maybe a
> hazard, but if the control stick isn't bolted in, you're in deep deep
> kimchee.
> It's worth checking.

One of my former instructors and I did a couple of low approaches on a
nice calm day with me "flying" the aircraft with the trim wheel and
rudder only... simulating a loss of the control stick... while he stood
by on the full controls if needed.

Then I was allowed to transition to full controls during the go-around.

Generally, it sucked, but was a good training demonstration of how to
handle such an emergency.  And a reminder that you always have options.

We did a few of these, both with the elevator and ailerons "jammed"
(instructor holding the yoke tightly with no movement in a somewhat
centered position) and "sloppy"...

It changes the behavior of the trim tab... if the elevator is free to
"fly" like the control yoke is simply "disconnected", the trim tab
operates normally.  Otherwise, it acts like a teeny tiny elevator of its
own, and backwards from it's usual movement.

I learned that a landing can be done that way.  It won't be pretty, but
you'll likely survive... even if you bend the aircraft.  You also have
to plan the approach very carefully to remain within the control
deflection limits of the small trim tab, if the elevator is jammed.

Simulating jammed controls at their control travel stops, would be very
dangerous, and we didn't do any of that, of course.  People have
survived even that, but how... is mostly luck.

Nate

2007\07\18@192720 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
The aircraft goes into ground effect just before touching down. It feels
sort of like a... Small bump on a rollercoaster as the decent suddenly
stops. It's expected, so I guess he was sort of anticipating it and kind of
reacted to it by...

Ok, I have no freaking idea why he pulled up on the stick either. That was
what I heard from another pilot who we asked the question of. Our DO wasn't
in to talking about the incident very much.

And I tend to agree that it would be a very easy thing to miss on a
pre-flight since the sticks go into a sleeve at the floorboard and that
sleeve can be pretty tight. The stick would have seemed solid as a rock
unless you happened to think to try to pull it, as you say, in a direction
you would never expect it to go.

But I do seem to remember that all our pilots got into the habit of doing
just that after we started flying again. Not sure why...

---
James.



> {Original Message removed}

2007\07\18@202839 by Russell McMahon

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> Simulating jammed controls at their control travel stops, would be
> very
> dangerous, and we didn't do any of that, of course.  People have
> survived even that, but how... is mostly luck.

"Free and correct and properly designed " ?

So, as the DC8 rotated the training officer pushed the throttle on #4
engine all the way closed. Standard takeoff disaster for the trainee
to handle. Which would have been fine, except that he pushed it home
somewhat more solidly than the designers had expected anyone would
ever do, and the force made the thrust brake lever click through its
"gate" and put the engine into reverse thrust.

Officially:

       " ...very rapid rearward movement of the power level generated
an
             inertia force which caused the associated thrust brake
lever to
             rise and enter the reverse idle detent ... "

That made it a bit harder to fly than anyone expected and it promptly
stopped doing so. Two of the five people on board died. Our only ever
large aircraft crash at Jean Batten (aka Auckland) International
Airport.

       http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19660704-0&lang=en



       Russell

_______________________________________

Narrative:

At 15:50 the engines of DC-8 ZK-NZB were started in preparation for a
routine crew training flight within the Auckland terminal zone, which
was scheduled to last two hours. The aircraft taxied to runway 23 for
departure. At 15:59 the flight was cleared for take-off when ready.
The aircraft made an apparently normal take-off roll. Rotation
appeared more rapidly achieved and steeper than usual and the
aircraft's tail passed unusually close to the runway surface. Almost
immediately, the starboard wing dropped and the aircraft began turning
to starboard while still in a nose-up attitude. The aircraft lost
height by sideslipping inward and the starboard wing tip then struck a
grassed area close to the edge of the runway. The aircraft pivoted
about its nose at a fuselage-to-ground angle of about 50 degrees. Fire
broke out in the vicinity of the starboard wing root and the aircraft
rapidly began to disintegrate. Following nose impact, the entire
flight deck section broke loose and eventually came to rest inverted.

PROBABLE CAUSE: "The incurrance of reverse thrust during simulated
failure of no. 4 engine on takeoff. That condition arose when very
rapid rearward movement of the power level generated an inertia force
which caused the associated thrust brake lever to rise and enter the
reverse idle detent. After lift-off, the minimum control speed
essentially required to overcome the prevailing state of thrust
imbalance was never attained and an uncontrollable roll, accompanied
by some degree of yaw and sideslip in the same direction, ensued. When
the condition of reverse thrust was recognised and eliminated,
insufficient time and height were available to allow the aircraft to
recover from its precarious attitude before it struck the ground."

2007\07\18@212844 by Recon

picon face
James Newtons Massmind wrote:

>The aircraft goes into ground effect just before touching down. It feels
>sort of like a... Small bump on a rollercoaster as the decent suddenly
>stops. It's expected, so I guess he was sort of anticipating it and kind of
>reacted to it by...
>
>Ok, I have no freaking idea why he pulled up on the stick either. That was
>what I heard from another pilot who we asked the question of. Our DO wasn't
>in to talking about the incident very much.
>
>  
>
If you think about it when you move the control stick to its end of
travel (left, right, fwd or back) your energy will try to lift the
stick. Unless you try to hold it down.

If this was a military plane as I think was mentioned, the maintenance
preflight ( much more thorough then the flight crew preflight) should
have found it.  If a bolt or some other device that held the stick in
was removed then there should have been an entry in the maintenance log
to ground the acft til it was fixed.

{Quote hidden}

2007\07\19@010452 by James Newtons Massmind

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> If this was a military plane as I think was mentioned, the
> maintenance preflight ( much more thorough then the flight
> crew preflight) should have found it.  If a bolt or some
> other device that held the stick in was removed then there
> should have been an entry in the maintenance log to ground
> the acft til it was fixed.

The replacement of a switch on the stick required that the stick be removed
from the yoke which is sunk into the floorboard. The shift of the crew who
replaced the switch ended just as they were replacing the stick in the yoke.
The hand off to the next crew apparently didn't including communication of
the fact that the stick had been slipped into the yoke but had not been
secured by screws. The oncoming crew assumed that since the stick was in the
yoke, it had been secured to the yoke. Bad assumption. Then the crew lead
failed to notice that when inspecting the job on completion. And the QA
inspector failed to see it. And the plane captain missed it (he would have
known that the stick had been worked on). And the pilot and copilot missed
it.

Yeah, it was pretty freaking amazing. As I said, they stopped flying for a
few days and did a huge safety review. I don't remember anyone getting in
real trouble for it.

---
James.


2007\07\19@041356 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
> There's something I don't quite get here: why would you ever
> pull UP on the stick?

How about if you are hanging on to the stick and hit an airpocket? Sure you
should be strapped in pretty tight, but normal reaction would be to pull on
whatever you are holding - in the case of the pilot it would be the stick.

2007\07\19@193508 by Nate Duehr

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Alan B. Pearce wrote:
>> There's something I don't quite get here: why would you ever
>> pull UP on the stick?
>
> How about if you are hanging on to the stick and hit an airpocket? Sure you
> should be strapped in pretty tight, but normal reaction would be to pull on
> whatever you are holding - in the case of the pilot it would be the stick.

You train pretty hard to remove that natural instinct.  It'll kill you
in certain circumstances.

The old joke...

Push stick forward, houses get bigger.
Pull stick back, houses get smaller.
Pull stick back too far, houses get bigger, faster.

:-)

Nate

2007\07\20@035132 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>You train pretty hard to remove that natural instinct.  
>It'll kill you in certain circumstances.

Ah, OK.

>The old joke...
>
>Push stick forward, houses get bigger.
>Pull stick back, houses get smaller.
>Pull stick back too far, houses get bigger, faster.

Hmm ... ;)

2007\07\20@095957 by Russell McMahon

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>>The old joke...
>>
>>Push stick forward, houses get bigger.
>>Pull stick back, houses get smaller.
>>Pull stick back too far, houses get bigger, faster.

... and (quite possibly) going round and round and round and ... into
the bargain.



           Russell

2007\07\20@111823 by Nate Duehr

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Russell McMahon wrote:
>>> The old joke...
>>>
>>> Push stick forward, houses get bigger.
>>> Pull stick back, houses get smaller.
>>> Pull stick back too far, houses get bigger, faster.
>
> ... and (quite possibly) going round and round and round and ... into
> the bargain.

Yep.  That part's fun, when appropriate altitude and planning are
involved.

I think it's almost criminal that spin training has been replaced with
"spin awareness" in the FAA's world... if you haven't spun one and
recovered, and if your first "attempt" to do that is low and slow...
you're probably going to die, looking very surprised and confused.

Nate

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