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'[OT] Every car in US includes.... (was: Re: [AD] O'
2010\08\30@155555 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/how-to/computer-security/how-vulnerable-is-your-car-to-cyber-attack

I laughed when I read that article.

It was like saying, "If you let someone attach a device to the inside
of your computer, they can make the computer do all sorts of weird
things!"  It's less alarming than "Someone with a pair of wire cutters
and a few minutes with your car could render the brakes useless!"

On the other hand, I was doing code analysis on a tire pressure
receiver 2 years ago and found a bad, bad, bad bug in their manchester
receive code which would allow anyone with a radio transmitter to
perform a buffer overrun attack on it.

The mandated tire pressure sensor program requires that every single
new vehicle sold in the US contain a radio receiver (for tire pressure
sensing) that ultimately feeds data into the main vehicle data network
(which sits alongside the body and engine controllers).

Worrisome, no?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: RussellMc <spam_OUTapptechnzTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com>
Date: Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [AD] OBDLink WiFi
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <.....piclistKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu>


Someone just sent me this offlist.

His comment about disabling the access while driving seems wise.
The people in the "test sedan" must have had an exciting time :-).
Passworded access may be 'useful'.

     R

Ref from: You know who you are :-)

______________________________________________

Happened to find this in my new issue of Popular Mechanics:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/how-to/computer-security/how-vulnerable-is-your-car-to-cyber-attack

The test sedan was rigged up with a laptop hooked into its OBD II
diagnostic port. On the computer was a custom-coded application,
called CarShark, that analyzes and rewrites automobile software. That
laptop was linked via a wireless connection to another laptop in the
chase car. In addition to temporarily rendering the test car
brakeless, the setup also allowed the research team to remotely turn
off all the vehicle's lights (including the headlights and brake
lights), turn on the windshield wipers, honk the horn, pop the trunk,
rev the engine, disable specific cylinders, engage individual brakes
and shut down the vehicle completely while it was in motion.

If I used ODBLink, I’d be sure to unplug it before I drove the car around town.

Related:

www.halfbakery.com/idea/Voice_20of_20GOD_20on_20the_20road#1171743293
because of:

http://trifinite.org/trifinite_stuff_carwhisperer.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/592972.stm

People just need to think about what they are doing.

2010\08\31@105928 by M.L.

flavicon
face
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 3:55 PM, M. Adam Davis <stienmanspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
> The mandated tire pressure sensor program requires that every single
> new vehicle sold in the US contain a radio receiver (for tire pressure
> sensing) that ultimately feeds data into the main vehicle data network
> (which sits alongside the body and engine controllers).
>

Is it mandated to be an RF device? I thought they accumulated pulses
from the ABS sensor which is just a toothed wheel with a proximity
sensor.
If one wheel has fewer counts after a couple miles, it is smaller in
diameter and hence probably deflated.


-- Martin K

2010\08\31@113257 by Carl Denk

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face
The number of ABS counts within tolerance may vary due to thread depth on tire. My Ford bronco with 4WD including limit slip differentials front and rear, and hard gearing and chain between all wheels, with the front hubs engaged, on dry pavement, transfer case can be unlocked or locked, if the front tires are different thread depth by 1/32", the vehicle steering will  pull to the side of the less thread depth. Switch sides for the tires and pulls the other way. I don't know what the specification says, but other than cumbersome, subject to defects due to bad exposure to elements which would be wired, contacts, etc., the only other would be RF, or maybe IR (can you imagine what would happen in ice or mud).

Does anyone know how they handle the temporary spare situation?. And then there is where all my vehicles have full size matching spare tires and wheels that get rotated twice a year. Guess, I'm going to have to buy one of those devices to reset the tire computer when I get a new vehicle. :(

On 8/31/2010 10:40 AM, M.L. wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2010\08\31@113717 by Herbert Graf

picon face
On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 15:55 -0400, M. Adam Davis wrote:

> The mandated tire pressure sensor program requires that every single
> new vehicle sold in the US contain a radio receiver (for tire pressure
> sensing) that ultimately feeds data into the main vehicle data network
> (which sits alongside the body and engine controllers).

Are you sure about that? My understanding is there has to be a "flat
tire" monitor, but not that it has to specifically be a radio based
solution.

My car uses the ABS sensors to detect a different rotation speed to
alert the driver of a flat, is this solution not good enough?

TTYL

2010\08\31@120359 by Carl Denk

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face
Meant to say in my previous message. Relative to other tire's rotational speed >> revolutions per mile is based on the rolling circumference of the tire, which will be relatively constant for a given tire size/model/thread depth over a wide range of tire pressures with modern belted tire construction. This is not like a latex balloon that stretches significantly with pressure. As long as the thread is contacting the pavement with sufficient friction, not to slip, the rolling circumference is going to be closely the same, it just approaches a caterpillar like shape. Now we are not talking something approaching a near zero air pressure, or where the beads have separated from the wheel. It's when one has to make a sudden hard evasive maneuver, the trouble begins. Then the tire rolls over on the sidewall, loosing traction, and possibly pulling the bead off the rim, with instant total deflation and loss of control of the vehicle.

There is NO substitute for being an alert driver for difference in feel, noise, etc. And of course, walking up to a vehicle, a quick glance at tires for bulging sidewalls, cuts, thin thread, and under vehicle for leaking fluids, etc. can spot most of these things. But that's not taught today. :(     Another expensive fix for something that training should be required!

On 8/31/2010 11:37 AM, Herbert Graf wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>


'[OT] Every car in US includes.... (was: Re: [AD] O'
2010\09\02@005634 by M. Adam Davis
face picon face
Basing tire pressure measurements on wheel rotational speed is
referred to as an indirect system, and according to Wikipedia:

"Audi is the first car maker to attempt to comply with the U.S. TPMS
legislation using an indirect system, with the launch of the Audi A6
model year 2009. Since its introduction NHTSA has tested the system,
however an official report of conformity with a PASS/FAIL assessment
is yet to be released. There are many reservations on whether or not
this system complies with the regulation, by admission of Audi
themselves in the vehicle's owners manual there are several scenarios
in which proper performance of the indirect TPMS system is not
guaranteed (like sporty driving or winter conditions and many others),
however Audi is confident that the car is able to pass the regulation
test procedure. Unfortunately for Audi the test procedure, as stated
on the document itself, is not enough to guarantee compliancy with the
regulation, but this is up to NHTSA to assess."

The requirements of the TREAD act are fairly loose, but I didn't think
one could meet them with an indirect system.  Indirect sensors appear
to be used more widely in Europe.  Perhaps they have easier to meet
standards.

It will be interesting to see the outcome of the Audi testing.

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Herbert Graf <EraseMEhkgrafspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

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