Searching \ for '[OT] Ethical Decisions - Morton Thiokol and the Sp' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=ethical+decisions
Search entire site for: 'Ethical Decisions - Morton Thiokol and the Sp'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[OT] Ethical Decisions - Morton Thiokol and the Sp'
2005\09\23@072217 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
I may be almost two decades late with this - I've never seen it before
and I've no idea how I came to arrive at this page. (Maybe a link from
one of the two lists I'm posting this to? :-( ).

       http://onlineethics.org/essays/shuttle/#abstr

A detailed paper by a disgruntled ex Morton Thiokol employee detailing
the history as he sees it that lead up to MT making (he says) dubious
decisions that lead to the Challenger disaster. Very old hat now but
makes interesting reading and plenty of lessons to apply to other
areas.


       RM

2005\09\23@131349 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 11:15 PM 9/23/2005 +1200, you wrote:
>I may be almost two decades late with this - I've never seen it before and
>I've no idea how I came to arrive at this page. (Maybe a link from one of
>the two lists I'm posting this to? :-( ).
>
>        http://onlineethics.org/essays/shuttle/#abstr
>
>A detailed paper by a disgruntled ex Morton Thiokol employee detailing the
>history as he sees it that lead up to MT making (he says) dubious
>decisions that lead to the Challenger disaster. Very old hat now but makes
>interesting reading and plenty of lessons to apply to other areas.

I highly recommend "What Do You Care What Other People Think" by
Richard Feynman. Roughly the last half of the book is devoted to his
time on the Rogers commission investigating the Challenger disaster.
He describes his impressions of Boisjoly, Lund, and Thompson, and puts
it into perspective with a sort of 'control' investigation of the Shuttle
engines.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
spam_OUTspeffTakeThisOuTspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
->> Inexpensive test equipment & parts http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZspeff


2005\09\23@143057 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
Allow me to recommend "Obedience to Authority" by Stanley Milgram. The fact
that "humans are social animals" scares the holy hell out of me. The
repercussions of that fact are largely ignored or actively belittled by most
people.

http://techref.massmind.org/techref/other/anarchist.htm


There was an episode of CSI that touched on the fine line between a group of
people and a mob. In it, a guy was killed on a flight because his fellow
passengers failed to realize that he was sick, not crazy. Normal, nice
people who failed to observe one little fact, that he was bathed in sweat,
and killed without remorse. They altered their own perceptions of reality,
and fed it to one another, each ignoring evidence of his condition, to
justify the killing. The one person who saw was the blind man. A single
person wouldn't have killed him or would have been bothered by killing, but
the group was quite happy to.

It seems to me that in a group, one critical bit of information tends to
be... Averaged out between all the members and often falls below some
threshold which causes it to be ignored. Once the group has decided it isn't
important, no matter how hard you try, you can't get it past the group mind.
You may go back later and find that each person will confess they felt it
was important, but were not willing to challenge the collective decision.

In movies, there is often a scene where one person stands up and challenges
the group to go in a different direction. I'm always amazed that people will
such courage (or stupidity) might exist. But the real hero is the SECOND
person. The one who decides to support the nut case. That person is the one
who really makes the difference.

---
James.



> {Original Message removed}

2005\09\23@145720 by David Van Horn

picon face
> It seems to me that in a group, one critical bit of information tends
to
> be... Averaged out between all the members and often falls below some
> threshold which causes it to be ignored. Once the group has decided it
> isn't important, no matter how hard you try, you can't get it past
> the group mind.
> You may go back later and find that each person will confess they felt
it
> was important, but were not willing to challenge the collective
decision.


Isn't this how neurons work?

Interesting to think that deep brain structure could be influencing how
our conscious mind works.




2005\09\23@152221 by Denny Esterline

picon face
> I may be almost two decades late with this - I've never seen it before
> and I've no idea how I came to arrive at this page. (Maybe a link from
> one of the two lists I'm posting this to? :-( ).

Sure enough, I posted it to OT yesterday, glad you liked it.
-Denny

2005\09\24@143921 by Gus Salavatore Calabrese

face picon face
Yes people are social animals.  I was one and over the last
54 years have essentially become a hermit ( although I live
in a big city ) .  I move away from crowds larger than 5 people.
I spend every day looking at the "water" the human fish swim
in.  I am sure I am am blind to some facets of the water still.

I found it amusing that the CSI  episode centered on the fact
the individual was "sick" rather than crazy.  In one instance, it
was okay to kill the guy ?  In the other, it wasn't.  I believe that
actions are all that matters and I don't care what the cause is.
If someone is a persistent danger to me, off they go.
( i emphasize persistent )

Feynman was a great guy.  It is hard to get out on the edge
because people will kill you.  Especially if you wear a towel
on your head.


Augustus Gustavius Salvatore Calabrese 720.222.1309    AGSC
http://www.omegadogs.com   Denver, CO

and now the small print:

Disclaimer: The above statements are not intended as an endorsement  
of any kind and any inference of having any verifiable knowledge  
about anything referenced above is purely coincidental. ( it is  
hoped ! )  If any statement above might get the author into trouble,  
it was not supported by the author but passed along from some mal-
content as an educational experience.  Alignment is with authority  
figures at all time; especially those with large police forces.  
PLEASE DON'T HURT ME !  I AM ON THE GROUND AND SUBMISSIVE.

If you are not part of the solution, you are precipitate.

ALL ORIGINAL COMMENTS / IDEAS / TEXT IN THIS MISSIVE ARE PUBLIC  
DOMAIN.  USE THEM AS YOU WILL.



2005\09\26@070828 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>There was an episode of CSI that touched on the
>fine line between a group of people and a mob.
>In it, a guy was killed on a flight because his
>fellow passengers failed to realize that he was
>sick, not crazy. Normal, nice people who failed
>to observe one little fact, that he was bathed
>in sweat, and killed without remorse.

Seen that episode a couple of times, and I think you are simplifying the
scenario too much. The guy was behaving in a manner that had the potential
to endanger everyone's life, by crashing the plane, and they behaved in a
pack to protect themselves IIRC. I seem to recall the outcome was that
no-one on the plane had the needed knowledge to identify the problem the guy
had, and defended themselves the best they knew how, in the circumstances.
If they had not been in an enclosed space on the plane with suitable routes
of escape, then the outcome would have been very different.

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2005 , 2006 only
- Today
- New search...