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'[OT] Engineer's Creed'
2000\04\16@052115 by Russell McMahon

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I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few
iterations this is something like how it ended up -

Creed of the Engineer:

Design with Super Computer
Measure with micrometer
Mark with chalk
Cut with axe
Hammer to fit
Paint to match
Fine tune with software




     Russell McMahon
_____________________________

- http://www.easttimor.com
      Updated regularly:
      100,000 refugees STILL in  West Timor face starvation!

- http://www.sudan.com
   And you think Kosovo and Chechnya are bad!

What can one man* do?
Help the hungry at no cost to yourself!
at  http://www.thehungersite.com/

(* - or woman, child or internet enabled intelligent entity :-))


-----Original Message-----
From: Floyd, Dennis W <spam_OUTdwfloydTakeThisOuTspamSANDIA.GOV>
To: .....AROCKETKILLspamspam@spam@ITC.UCI.EDU <AROCKETspamKILLspamITC.UCI.EDU>
Date: Friday, 14 April 2000 06:18
Subject: [AR] Measurement info


>NB: Creed of the Engineer: Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut
>with axe. -- Bumper sticker
>

2000\04\16@065658 by steve

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face
> I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few
> iterations this is something like how it ended up -
>
> Creed of the Engineer:
>
> Design with Super Computer
> Measure with micrometer
> Mark with chalk
> Cut with axe
> Hammer to fit
> Paint to match
> Fine tune with software

Render useless with WinXX

Steve.

======================================================
Steve Baldwin                Electronic Product Design
TLA Microsystems Ltd         Microcontroller Specialists
PO Box 15-680, New Lynn      http://www.tla.co.nz
Auckland, New Zealand        ph  +64 9 820-2221
email: .....stevebKILLspamspam.....tla.co.nz      fax +64 9 820-1929
======================================================

2000\04\16@072159 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Russ, you forgot the parts dealing with the Full Moon, migration of
crabs, sex, lies, and video tapes. Actually, that falls under Marketing.
True Story:

  When I was working for Datricon designing 6809-based STD Bus embedded
controllers, Marketing actually took prototype boards, stuffed them in a
box, added some wire bundles, set the box on top of the elevator, took a
picture, and made a wonderful full-color brochure about our hot new
product controlling an elevator. Never mind that it didn't exist yet...

  - Tom

At 09:17 PM 4/16/00 +1200, Russell McMahon wrote:
{Quote hidden}

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

2000\04\16@122039 by Dan Michaels

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face
At 09:17 PM 4/16/00 +1200, you wrote:
>I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few
>iterations this is something like how it ended up -
>
>Creed of the Engineer:
>
>Design with Super Computer
>Measure with micrometer
>Mark with chalk
>Cut with axe
>Hammer to fit
>Paint to match
>Fine tune with software
>
>      Russell McMahon

Nicely integrated, testing phase still needed.

Tested by monkeys (???)

2000\04\16@124337 by Rob Zero

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----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Michaels <EraseMEoricomspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTLYNX.SNI.NET>
To: <PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Engineer's Creed


{Quote hidden}

tested by a tech
broken by a Phd
Ruined by bad marketing
Stolen/bought by microsoft
shelved from lack of interest

2000\04\16@130851 by Dan Michaels

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face
Rob wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Certified by committee.

2000\04\16@131515 by Dan Michaels

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>> >
>> >Creed of the Engineer:
>> >
>> >Design with Super Computer
>> >Measure with micrometer
>> >Mark with chalk
>> >Cut with axe
>> >Hammer to fit
>> >Paint to match
>> >Fine tune with software
>> >
>

Admitted to standard practice by universal acclamation
Universally acclaimed for standard practice
Accept as is
Batteries not included

2000\04\16@151314 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   Nicely integrated, testing phase still needed.
   Tested by monkeys (???)

Tested by customers.

:-(
BillW

2000\04\16@172708 by l.allen

picon face
Tom Wrote

>    Russ, you forgot the parts dealing with the Full Moon, migration of
> crabs, sex, lies, and video tapes. Actually, that falls under Marketing.
> True Story:
>
>    When I was working for Datricon designing 6809-based STD Bus embedded
> controllers, Marketing actually took prototype boards, stuffed them in a
> box, added some wire bundles, set the box on top of the elevator, took a
> picture, and made a wonderful full-color brochure about our hot new
> product controlling an elevator. Never mind that it didn't exist yet...
>
>    - Tom
>
Been there... had that inflicted on me.

I was at the concept development phase of a multipoint
alarm monitoring system.
The CEO asked me "Is it going to work" I foolishly said
"yes"....... 2 days latter I found I had 3 weeks to deliver
30 finished units complete with PC display graphics of
system status.
Needless to say things turned to custard, but I delivered
2 months later after having worked night and day and
endured endless grilling from the management.
I quit not long after that.

I recall "Scotty from Star Trek" stated he gained a good
reputation as an engineer by quoting that the work would
take twice as long as he really thought, and then
'apparently' delivered in half the time.


_____________________________

Lance Allen
Technical Officer
Uni of Auckland
Psych Dept
New Zealand

http://www.psych.auckland.ac.nz

_____________________________

2000\04\16@173132 by Grif\ w. keith griffith

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<x-flowed>Where's the technican to make the D*** thing work?  (We'll bring our own
bondo!)

At 09:17 PM 4/16/00 +1200, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'Grif'   N7IVS

</x-flowed>

2000\04\17@011149 by Matthew Fries

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face
At 10:19 AM 4/16/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>At 09:17 PM 4/16/00 +1200, you wrote:
>>I copied Dennis Floyd's "Engineers Creed" to the PICList and after a few
>>iterations this is something like how it ended up -
>>
>>Creed of the Engineer:
>>
>>Design with Super Computer
>>Measure with micrometer
>>Mark with chalk
>>Cut with axe
>>Hammer to fit
>>Paint to match
>>Fine tune with software

Ship via UPS

Remove the BALONEY from my email address.
-----------------------------------------------------
Matthew Fries       Minneapolis, MN    USA
spamBeGonefreezespamBeGonespambaloneyvisi.com

"Quit eating all my *STUFF*!" - The Tick

2000\04\17@014754 by Plunkett, Dennis

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face
{Quote hidden}

       Also forgot,:-
       Fold with press
       Drive in rust bucket
       Shop at K-Mart



       Dennis

2000\04\17@020041 by Russell McMahon

picon face
>Tested by monkeys (???)


no,    Politicians

                   RM


>>Creed of the Engineer:
>>
>>Design with Super Computer
>>Measure with micrometer
>>Mark with chalk
>>Cut with axe
>>Hammer to fit
>>Paint to match
>>Fine tune with software

   Tested by politicians
>>
>>      Russell McMahon
>
>Nicely integrated, testing phase still needed.
>
>

2000\04\17@103633 by jamesnewton

face picon face
I've started a beginning engineers checklist at
http://techref.massmind.org/begin
and added this to it. I'd love to hear some other sage advice that is
general for survival in this business.

---
James Newton jamesnewtonEraseMEspam.....geocities.com 1-619-652-0593
http://techref.massmind.org NEW! FINALLY A REAL NAME!
Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting)


{Original Message removed}

2000\04\17@133207 by Dan Michaels

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James Newton wrote:
>
>I've started a beginning engineers checklist at
>http://techref.massmind.org/begin
>and added this to it. I'd love to hear some other sage advice that is
>general for survival in this business.
>

Speaking of real [albeit non-engineering] classics, check out
the recent Dilbert column on how a pointy-haired "clueless" guy
deals with unwanted phonecalls. Brilliant. Starts out:

"Again? That thing rang last week, too" ....
=============

Back to "true" life drama [and deserved(??) karma]:

Several years ago, while working in aerospace, I was talking
with my manager/boss in the hall one day, when he looked at his
watch and said, "Oops, I have to go to a meeting now. Maybe you
should come along too". [note - I had no previous knowledge of
this meeting].

Well, the meeting was with the "customer", included 20-30 people,
me being the least senior, and included our division manager and
several air force colonels. The "major theme" of the meeting,
as it turned out, concerned problems with one of the subsystems
I was test engineer on at the time. Among other things they
wanted to hear a detailed history of the problem going back
several years, and all the steps we had taken along the way to
correct it. Well, needless to say, .....

Later, my [pointy-haired] boss said, "You did a pretty bad job
in there today. You should always be prepared for this kind
of thing, ....".

P.S. After that date, I was no longer on the A-List in the
department.

P.P.S. Eventually Mr. Pointy-Hairs was canned, after almost
getting himself shot, trying to barge past a marine guard at
the launch pad.

Just one of many,
- Dan Michaels

2000\04\17@135911 by jamesnewton

face picon face
So.. I translated that to:
"Always document everything you do (why did you always see engineers and
scientists with a log book?) and be ready to extract a complete history of
actions at a moments notice. I don't care how sharp you are, at some point,
while trying to solve a complex problem, you will realize that you don't
remember exactly what you already tried... which means that you are
duplicating effort, running in circles, and doomed. Also, when it really
drops in the bucket, management WILL try to make you a scapegoat and being
able to tell the customer exactly what you did may save your job (or get you
a better manager or even a new job)."

---
James Newton EraseMEjamesnewtonspamgeocities.com 1-619-652-0593
http://techref.massmind.org NEW! FINALLY A REAL NAME!
Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting)


{Original Message removed}

2000\04\17@151423 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:24:03 +1200 Lance Allen <RemoveMEl.allenEraseMEspamEraseMEAUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
writes:
{Quote hidden}

       Hmmm... I used a Datricon 6800 STD board in a transmitter control system
for broadcasters. I later designed my own 6802 board, but I think one of
the original systems is still an AM/FM station there...

Harold



FCC Rules Online at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules
Lighting control for theatre and television at http://www.dovesystems.com

________________________________________________________________
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2000\04\17@152709 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
face
James Newton wrote:
>So.. I translated that to:
>"Always document everything you do (why did you always see engineers and
>scientists with a log book?) and be ready to extract a complete history of
>actions at a moments notice. I don't care how sharp you are, at some point,
>while trying to solve a complex problem, you will realize that you don't
>remember exactly what you already tried... which means that you are
>duplicating effort, running in circles, and doomed. Also, when it really
>drops in the bucket, management WILL try to make you a scapegoat and being
>able to tell the customer exactly what you did may save your job (or get you
>a better manager or even a new job)."
>

[actually, had I "known" there was a meeting, and had I known what
it was about, and had I known I would be the primary speaker, I
could have brought the log book].

Besides abstracting the lessons, you might also have the original
parables available. Might try adding some humor to the abstractions,
too. Don't want to scare the new engineers too much. Engineering
can be fun, if you don't take the bosses too seriously. Course,
it took a few years to learn this one.
==============

Maybe call your page "Engineering Parables".

You might add pertinent titles - mine should have been called:
"As the Boy Scouts say - Be Prepared".

And you might try categorizing them. Dogbert made Dilbert
select his own "slot" a couple weeks ago. As I recall, list was:

empty suit, sadist, sycophant, factoid, prima donna, whiner.
[Dilbert chose empty suit].

I won't tell you my own personal selection, but maybe later
I'll tell you "The Story of the Sycophant and the Prima Donna".
[or "How to Make Smoke Come Out of the Ears of a Sycophant"].

best regards,
- DanM.

2000\04\17@161321 by l.allen
picon face
> > >>Creed of the Engineer:
> > >>
> > >>Design with Super Computer
> > >>Measure with micrometer
> > >>Mark with chalk
> > >>Cut with axe
> > >>Hammer to fit
> > >>Paint to match
> > >>Fine tune with software
> >
> > Ship via UPS
> >
>         Also forgot,:-
>         Fold with press
>         Drive in rust bucket
>         Shop at K-Mart
>
>
To reiterate another truth posted a while ago..

Has oscilloscope at home worth more than his car.


_____________________________

Lance Allen
Technical Officer
Uni of Auckland
Psych Dept
New Zealand

http://www.psych.auckland.ac.nz

_____________________________

2000\04\17@174717 by Erik Reikes

flavicon
face
At 07:35 AM 4/17/00 -0700, James Newton wrote:
>I've started a beginning engineers checklist at
>http://techref.massmind.org/begin
>and added this to it. I'd love to hear some other sage advice that is
>general for survival in this business.

Here's one I heard not too long ago :

1: It can be built well.
2: It can be built quickly.
3: It can be built cheaply.

Pick two of these three and start.



Erik Reikes
Senior Software Engineer
Xsilogy, Inc.

RemoveMEereikesspam_OUTspamKILLspamxsilogy.com
ph : (858) 535-5113
fax : (858) 535-5163
cell : (858) 663-1206

2000\04\18@004814 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:45:04 -0700 Erik Reikes <RemoveMEereikesTakeThisOuTspamspamXSILOGY.COM>
writes:
>
> Here's one I heard not too long ago :
>
> 1: It can be built well.
> 2: It can be built quickly.
> 3: It can be built cheaply.
>
> Pick two of these three and start.
>


       How about "The ideal design has zero parts."

Harold

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
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2000\04\18@025419 by Russell McMahon

picon face
It can be built ! :-)


     Russell McMahon
_____________________________

- http://www.easttimor.com
      Updated regularly:
      100,000 refugees STILL in  West Timor face starvation!

- http://www.sudan.com
   And you think Kosovo and Chechnya are bad!

What can one man* do?
Help the hungry at no cost to yourself!
at  http://www.thehungersite.com/

(* - or woman, child or internet enabled intelligent entity :-))


{Original Message removed}

2000\04\18@034537 by Jinx

face picon face
From: Erik Reikes

> Here's one I heard not too long ago :
>
> 1: It can be built well.
> 2: It can be built quickly.
> 3: It can be built cheaply.
>
> Pick two of these three and start.

Eggsactly what a NASA PR-type person said when asked to comment
on the report (released at the end of last week) into the two failed Mars
missions.

If she was acting as an official spokeswoman, and appeared to be, then
it seems to be accepted at NASA that resources are being spread too thinly,
at least for those Mars missions. She did specifically say that equipment
was made too cheaply and corners were cut to save time (what's the rush ?
where's Mars going ?). Surprisingly frank hands-up admissions I thought.

2000\04\18@040651 by D Lloyd

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face
Harold M Hallikainen <EraseMEharoldhallikainenspamspamspamBeGoneJUNO.COM>
18/04/2000 05:23


Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>

To:   PICLISTSTOPspamspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Dan Lloyd/GBPTD/ABB)
Subject:  Re: [OT] Engineer's Creed

Security Level:?         Internal



On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:45:04 -0700 Erik Reikes <spamBeGoneereikesSTOPspamspamEraseMEXSILOGY.COM>
writes:
{Quote hidden}

       How about "The ideal design has zero parts."

Harold

* Or that old chestnut, "Software is free"

Dan

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
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2000\04\18@044431 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
>She did specifically say that equipment
>was made too cheaply and corners were cut to save time (what's the rush ?
>where's Mars going ?). Surprisingly frank hands-up admissions I thought.

Not a comment on the Leaders "faster cheaper smaller" creed? It strikes me as a
case of "thats what he wants, but best practise will not achieve it".

2000\04\18@065745 by Daniel C. Christadoss

picon face
   I once read a book about an engineer a long time ago and do not remember
the name of the book. It made very interesting reading.

   It had a very nice quote about an engineer

   " An engineer is someone who can build for a dollar what a fool can build
for twenty "

   Can someone tell me the name of this book and the author

   Regards

   Dan

2000\04\18@090204 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Harold, facinating! We were giving Prolog pretty good competition
at the time. The first CPU products were 6800 and 6801-based. The
6809 version became very popular. I was designing energy management
systems using their products and that's how I ended up working for
them. That and the fact that I knew the founders ;-)

  - Tom

At 11:06 AM 4/17/00 -0700, Harold M Hallikainen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

system
>for broadcasters. I later designed my own 6802 board, but I think one of
>the original systems is still an AM/FM station there...
>
>Harold


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

2000\04\18@091453 by Andrew Kunz

flavicon
face
...and NO software








Harold M Hallikainen <KILLspamharoldhallikainenspamBeGonespamJUNO.COM> on 04/18/2000 12:23:31 AM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <EraseMEPICLISTspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      @spam@PICLIST@spam@spamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [OT] Engineer's Creed








On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:45:04 -0700 Erik Reikes <spamBeGoneereikesspamKILLspamXSILOGY.COM>
writes:
{Quote hidden}

       How about "The ideal design has zero parts."

Harold

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj.

2000\04\18@165711 by rleggitt

picon face
Found on the web:

"An engineer is someone who can build for a dollar what any damn fool can
build for ten."                                - Robert A. Hienlein

-- Rich

On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Daniel C. Christadoss wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2000\04\18@185830 by Daniel Hart

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face
Dan Michaels wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I'll second that.

2000\04\18@190035 by Matthew Fries

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face
If It was Robert Heinlein who said that, the book may have been "The door
into Summer". It is one of my favorites because of all the great advances
in technology that he envisioned for the future (the future being the
1970's). Some of the cool things were...

a mechanical drafting board (we use CAD now).
a general purpose robot that could remember complex tasks (like washing
dishes) and also adapt (slightly)
analog memory devices (I think they were called Thorsen tubes)



On Tue, 18 Apr 2000 .....rleggittspamRemoveMEconcentric.net wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2000\04\18@191315 by Daniel Hart

flavicon
face
Jinx wrote:

> >
> > Pick two of these three and start.
>
> Eggsactly what a NASA PR-type person said when asked to comment
> on the report (released at the end of last week) into the two failed Mars
> missions.
> ... (what's the rush ? where's Mars going ?)

The rush isn't because MARS is moving.
The rush is to finish the stupid project before it relocates again and you have to start over with
new people;
or before congress readjusts the budget and requires yet another replan that invalidates all of the
analysis you've done for the past year.

Have a great day,
Dan

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