Searching \ for '[OT] Desiccant behavior' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=desiccant+behavior
Search entire site for: 'Desiccant behavior'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[OT] Desiccant behavior'
2007\06\02@022922 by Peter P.

picon face
What happens if one puts (submerges) such a packet in a cup of H2O ? The total
volume should not decrease but upon removing the package a sizable amount of
water should be 'missing' from the cup, no ? Also, is this not overloading the
desiccant ? Can it be regenerated after such an extreme use ?

just curious, thanks,
Peter P.


2007\06\02@030938 by Tony Smith

picon face
> What happens if one puts (submerges) such a packet in a cup
> of H2O ? The total volume should not decrease but upon
> removing the package a sizable amount of water should be
> 'missing' from the cup, no ? Also, is this not overloading
> the desiccant ? Can it be regenerated after such an extreme use ?
>
> just curious, thanks,
> Peter P.


It's not like you don't have one or two to spare for an experiment now.

I've heard it said you can dry them out by placing them in an oven for a
while, moderate temperature for an hour or so.  I'm not sure to that applies
to those you've used as a teabag, but I can't see why not.

The bags themselves might not like being dunked, being some sort of paper.
As usual, I can't find one now to try it.

Wikipedia linked to this, <http://www.desiccants.cn/products.htm>, absorbs
40% by weight, and their drying guide is a bit better than "shove in oven
for a while".

BTW, you mentioned florists use the cystals, why?

Tony

2007\06\02@054510 by Jinx

face picon face
> BTW, you mentioned florists use the cystals, why?

Would that be the "water crystals" they add to potting mix to
retain water ? Although do florists deal with potted plants ?

2007\06\02@075559 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Jinx wrote:

> Would that be the "water crystals" they add to potting mix to
> retain water ? Although do florists deal with potted plants ?

Could it be that it's been a while since you have been to a florist? :)  

At least in the places where I was, they do (although that possibly might
depend on the florist). And many plants are grown in pots before they go
into the "open".

But what are those "water crystals"? Never heard about this.

Gerhard

2007\06\02@083548 by Jinx

face picon face
> But what are those "water crystals"? Never heard about this.

You didn't get the memo ?

Best way I can describe them is let someone else do it

http://www.crystals.us/

2007\06\02@084545 by Tony Smith

picon face
> > BTW, you mentioned florists use the cystals, why?
>
> Would that be the "water crystals" they add to potting mix to
> retain water ? Although do florists deal with potted plants ?


I've seen a clear jel being used, made from crystals?.  I supposed it's
nicer to use than dirt.  I was just curious what florists want with
something that sucks up water and doesn't like giving it back.  (They also
have that dense green foam, handy if you're into casting.)

Some florists sell potted plants, it occurred to me that they could use that
in their marketing - "Our stuff it still alive after a week".  They probably
should be careful with that, might not go down too well in hospitals.

Tony

2007\06\02@151612 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 6/2/07, Jinx <spam_OUTjoecolquittTakeThisOuTspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
> > But what are those "water crystals"? Never heard about this.
>
> You didn't get the memo ?
>
> Best way I can describe them is let someone else do it
>
> http://www.crystals.us/

Voilla, another OT/POT/NOT subject.

Some researchers discovered that an ice cristal could look nice and
simetric if you
pray while it's freezing or cold look totaly nasty if you swear or
listen ugly hard rock music in the freezing time. How about that? I
know Tony likes those subjects.
:P

vasile

2007\06\02@152152 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
Added the link for the upsidedown guys.

On 6/2/07, Vasile Surducan <.....piclist9KILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/2/07, Jinx <joecolquittspamKILLspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
> > > But what are those "water crystals"? Never heard about this.
>
> Voilla, another OT/POT/NOT subject.
>
> Some researchers discovered that an ice cristal could look nice and
> simetric if you
> pray while it's freezing or cold look totaly nasty if you swear or
> listen ugly hard rock music in the freezing time.

http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm

How about that? I
> know Tony likes those subjects.
> :P
>
> vasile
>

2007\06\02@153339 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Jun 2, 2007, at 5:44 AM, Tony Smith wrote:

> I was just curious what florists want with
> something that sucks up water and doesn't like giving it back.

Silica Gel is also used for making dried flowers...

BillW

2007\06\02@181625 by Steve Baldwin

flavicon
face
On 2 Jun 2007 at 6:29, Peter P. wrote:
> What happens if one puts (submerges) such a packet in a cup of H2O ?
> The total volume should not decrease but upon removing the package a
> sizable amount of water should be 'missing' from the cup, no ? Also,
> is this not overloading the desiccant ? Can it be regenerated after
> such an extreme use ?

You can recycle Silica Gel. It's blue when it's hydrated and pink when it's
dried out.

Steve.

2007\06\02@182032 by Peter Todd

picon face
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, Jun 03, 2007 at 10:16:02AM +1200, Steve Baldwin wrote:
> On 2 Jun 2007 at 6:29, Peter P. wrote:
> > What happens if one puts (submerges) such a packet in a cup of H2O ?
> > The total volume should not decrease but upon removing the package a
> > sizable amount of water should be 'missing' from the cup, no ? Also,
> > is this not overloading the desiccant ? Can it be regenerated after
> > such an extreme use ?
>
> You can recycle Silica Gel. It's blue when it's hydrated and pink when it's
> dried out.

This isn't strictly true... Manufacturers add marker pellets containing
a cobalt indicator. It's the indicator chemical that changes color;
silica gel itself is colorless regardless of how much water it has
absorbed. Often this cobalt indicator is left out as the cobalt is not
food safe.

- --
http://petertodd.ca
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFGYe0q3bMhDbI9xWQRAqRdAJ9n0FGkSRuhmFrNrfieqaPFcUZRmgCgm26t
HI6ZyUFvOQe9bDj8cncQu8E=
=NQiY
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2007\06\02@182207 by Peter Todd

picon face
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, Jun 02, 2007 at 06:29:01AM +0000, Peter P. wrote:
> What happens if one puts (submerges) such a packet in a cup of H2O ? The total
> volume should not decrease but upon removing the package a sizable amount of
> water should be 'missing' from the cup, no ? Also, is this not overloading the
> desiccant ? Can it be regenerated after such an extreme use ?

I can't answere your other questions... but I have tried dumping silica
gel into water before. Interestingly it actually crackles which I
presume is caused by the expansion stresses caused by absorbing so much
water. That does imply that it's volume is increasing, but by how much I
don't know.

- --
http://petertodd.ca
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFGYe2O3bMhDbI9xWQRAnbhAJ9Ur66Dxyiu8Ol6EaMsttDK1bVmMwCfc6rl
RLxUq/qEhYLtJQZcWDcjm/I=
=W9dC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2007\06\02@185731 by Jinx

face picon face
> Some researchers discovered that an ice cristal could look nice and
> simetric if you pray while it's freezing or cold look totaly nasty if you
> swear or listen ugly hard rock music in the freezing time.
>
> http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm

I'm sure he's been mentioned before, quite a while ago. I remember
those photos and, um, "Kinki Region"

Now here's your problem re water-fuelled engines. It's not being held
up by technology at all. You dissociating guys are wasting your time if
you don't get all doe-eyed and smoochy beforehand. The water knows,
you know

DR. EMOTO: "I believe that love coming from this space is optimal love,
and may even lead to an end to the wars and conflicts in the world. Kan-sha
is inherent in the substance H2O -- an essential element for life.

REIKO: So if we were to develop a car that could run on water instead of
gasoline, and return the water to the atmosphere and subsequently back
into space in this way, would that be one way of fulfilling our task?

DR. EMOTO: I think that would be a wonderful thing, and for the sake
of preserving Mother Nature it is the direction that we need to go. However,
since water is the mirror reflecting our level of consciousness, a large
percentage of the people on the planet, at least 10 percent of the people,
need to have the love and the kan-sha awareness. When they do, then
the time will come when water can be used to replace gasoline"

2007\06\03@043223 by Tony Smith

picon face
{Quote hidden}

Can't we just skip the water and run our cars on peace, love &
understanding?  Groovy.

Tony

(Early British motorcycles have always run on prayers (to the Prince of
Darkness), hope & swear words (at the Prince of Darkness).  Mainly swearing
though.)

2007\06\03@091522 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>You can recycle Silica Gel. It's blue when it's hydrated
>and pink when it's dried out.

Silica Gel on its own is white. It is only pink/blue when it has a cobalt
compound tint in it.

2007\06\03@100314 by Tony Smith

picon face

> > I was just curious what florists want with something that sucks up
> > water and doesn't like giving it back.
>
> Silica Gel is also used for making dried flowers...
>
> BillW


Ah, that would speed up the process somewhat.

Tony

2007\06\03@124839 by Peter P.

picon face
Peter Todd <pete <at> petertodd.ca> writes:

> I can't answere your other questions... but I have tried dumping silica
> gel into water before. Interestingly it actually crackles which I
> presume is caused by the expansion stresses caused by absorbing so much
> water. That does imply that it's volume is increasing, but by how much I
> don't know.

Thanks, I know that it crackles, and I assume that because of that something or
other changes in it so it is less reversible than before (loses capacity when
cycled like this or something like that). I also found a large desiccant bag
marked 'activated bentonite' in a packing carton once. I did not know that
bentonite could be used as a desiccant (only as absorbent). Imho really wet
bentonite behaves like wet clay ... or mud. In fact it *is* a kind of mud. I am
not sure what would happen if the Tyvek bag would tear with wet bentonite in it
next to a piece of equipment that is supposed to be kept dry. At least silica
gel does not become any less silica gel when wet. It's still a solid.

I was thinking about using silica gel to absorb something other than water (like
alcohol solution) to concentrate it. Would that work ?

thanks,
Peter P.


2007\06\03@200923 by Peter Todd

picon face
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, Jun 03, 2007 at 04:48:12PM +0000, Peter P. wrote:
> Thanks, I know that it crackles, and I assume that because of that something or
> other changes in it so it is less reversible than before (loses capacity when
> cycled like this or something like that). I also found a large desiccant bag
> marked 'activated bentonite' in a packing carton once. I did not know that
> bentonite could be used as a desiccant (only as absorbent). Imho really wet
> bentonite behaves like wet clay ... or mud. In fact it *is* a kind of mud. I am
> not sure what would happen if the Tyvek bag would tear with wet bentonite in it
> next to a piece of equipment that is supposed to be kept dry. At least silica
> gel does not become any less silica gel when wet. It's still a solid.

Read the wikipedia entry on bentonite... It's interesting stuff, lots of
engineering applications for it due to it's properties in slurry form.

The desiccant I got was actually tyvek bags of bentonite. If you (with great
difficulty) tear them open it's a fine powder that of course turns into a slurry
when wet. Trying to get the bentonite wet while still in the bag
though... Well I've had one sitting in a bucket of water for three hours
now and it still feels bone dry.

The tyvek bags are rated to cleanroom 100 standards so from the sounds
of it the dust inside just isn't that likely to get out, the pores of
the tyvek are just too small. If you somehow got them soaked, I'd
suspect whatever was packaged with them would be wrecked anyway.

- --
http://petertodd.ca
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFGY1gY3bMhDbI9xWQRAswMAKCxi5sPzJ2TQMmGE5oQZwzCd2RoaACfR10a
r1D2jXYO0CTWO0Isum3VTjE=
=mZge
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2007\06\04@000108 by Peter Todd

picon face
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, Jun 03, 2007 at 08:08:57PM -0400, Peter Todd wrote:

Tried a different approach to getting those bags wet... Put them under a
running tap for a few hours to force water into them. Now they feel
squishy inside, so definetely wet.

Even then I simply can not get any dirt to appear on the exterior of the
bag by kneeding it around and what not. The tyvek is very tough stuff
and a good filter to boot.

{Quote hidden}

- --
http://petertodd.ca
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFGY46E3bMhDbI9xWQRAqC8AKCf8piKY+V16KdoiZ0BwKE8DH8RrgCdFUam
G8WUFlaIlMOxL1+vkts8l1k=
=6tPU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2007\06\04@073740 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 16:48:12 +0000 (UTC), Peter P. wrote:

>...
> I also found a large desiccant bag
> marked 'activated bentonite' in a packing carton once. I did not know that
> bentonite could be used as a desiccant (only as absorbent). Imho really wet
> bentonite behaves like wet clay ... or mud. In fact it *is* a kind of mud.

I seem to remember it's used as a slurry in mining operations - perhaps as a coolant for drill bits, or to wash wanted minerals from the mining face?

> I am
> not sure what would happen if the Tyvek bag would tear with wet bentonite in it
> next to a piece of equipment that is supposed to be kept dry. At least silica
> gel does not become any less silica gel when wet. It's still a solid.

First, I think you'll find tearing Tyvek is incredibly hard to do - certainly wouldn't happen in the ordinary course of shipping and storage.  And if it was
damaged by something intruding into the packaging, I think the valuable item itself is likely to be severely damaged anyway!  :-)

Secondly, I believe Tyvek acts like Goretex - it allows water vapour to pass through it, but not actual water droplets, so even if it got wet enough to
develop a slurry I don't think it could escape if the bag wasn't compromised.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\06\04@183013 by Peter P.

picon face
Howard Winter <HDRW <at> H2Org.demon.co.uk> writes:

> First, I think you'll find tearing Tyvek is incredibly hard to do - certainly
> wouldn't happen in the ordinary course of shipping and storage.  And if it was

I think that between a 19 inch rackmount device that weighs over 20 lbs and is
full of hard edges and BNC connectors and other Tyvek-unfriendly devices, and a
Tyvek bag that contains at least 1/2 lbs of bentonite and is packed into the
same space it would be an uneven fight. But someone must have done their testing.

> Secondly, I believe Tyvek acts like Goretex - it allows water vapour to pass
> through it, but not actual water droplets, so even if it got wet enough to
> develop a slurry I don't think it could escape if the bag wasn't compromised.

This is probably true. I think that the role of a desiccant is to keep humidity
low enough that there is no condensation on the device being protected. So it's
not supposed to be used as a tea-bag. But I was curious about the tea-bag use
for other purposes as I wrote. Anyway I'd try this with silica gel or activated
charcoal (which also absorbs water in huge quantities). I wonder if I can
confirm concentration by observing the absorber's temperature while wetting it
with solution. It should go down if any concentration change happens, I think
(or: it should go down more than when absorbing the solvent alone).

Peter P.


More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2007 , 2008 only
- Today
- New search...