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'[OT] Cute little oscilloscope'
2009\11\12@004445 by Bob Blick

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This is where scopes are heading:

http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/micro-digital-storage-oscilloscopedso-nano-p-512.html

I'm sure the analog stage is crap, but stuff like this is sure to push
some of the quality test equipment makers to do pocket-sized gear.

-Bob

2009\11\12@012406 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
That one is only good to 1MHz though.  Good for slow clocks and analog work.

I'm actually thinking that we'll go towards iPhone/android DSOs for
field work, but the reality is that there's not much replacement for a
large clear display with a good set of controls for bench work.

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:45 AM, Bob Blick <spam_OUTbobblickTakeThisOuTspamftml.net> wrote:
> This is where scopes are heading:
>
> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/micro-digital-storage-oscilloscopedso-nano-p-512.html
>
> I'm sure the analog stage is crap, but stuff like this is sure to push
> some of the quality test equipment makers to do pocket-sized gear.
>
> -Bob
> -

2009\11\12@021513 by SM Ling

picon face
After resisting for a month, I bought the 5M jyetech scope.  It
arrived yesterday :-)

The nano is actually an open source product, but information is in
Chinese, and the firmware can be customised.  Battery life was one of
the reasons, the designer settled for 1MHz.  It was targeting at lift
and car repairmen.

There is a somewhat similar ee-forum in China like piclist, and they
are pumping out kits and stuff like nano-scope quite frequently, some
pick up be seedstudio.

Cheers,  Ling SM

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:23 PM, M. Adam Davis <.....stienmanKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>> -

2009\11\12@040609 by John Chung

picon face
Hi SM Ling,

How is the 5M scope? Build quality and performance in it's class would like to hear your reviews. Is the scope open source too?

John



--- On Thu, 11/12/09, SM Ling <.....ipal11KILLspamspam.....singnet.com.sg> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2009\11\12@042628 by Octavio Nogueira
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>The nano is actually an open source product, but information is in
>Chinese, and the firmware can be customised.  Battery life was one of
>the reasons, the designer settled for 1MHz.  It was targeting at lift
>and car repairmen.

Do you have any link of the Nano Scope open source?

Octavio Nogueira
Tato Equipamentos Eletrônicos Ltda
Tel (11) 5506-5335


2009/11/12 SM Ling <RemoveMEipal11TakeThisOuTspamsingnet.com.sg>

{Quote hidden}

2009\11\12@051429 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
Bob Blick wrote:
> This is where scopes are heading:
>
> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/micro-digital-storage-oscilloscopedso-nano-p-512.html

That looks like a nice platform for embedded development. A pity they
show "-1" in stock :(

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\11\12@055210 by SM Ling

picon face
> How is the 5M scope? Build quality and performance in it's class would like to hear your reviews. Is the scope open source too?

Not open source as far as I know.  Have it only for a day, so I am not
qualify to do a review as yet.  Check up  youtube, there are a few
video there.  Google it, already some reviews on it.

Quick point:
1.  The build is good (bought the assembled set).  But I hope it is
not like those 1 month life-time product.  There was no such
complaints on the net yet.
2.  The various buttons and switches make operation it easy and fast.
To me, this is important as compare to navigating around the on screen
menu when I am using the tool.
3.  It is smaller and lighter than it appears to be.  About size of 2
pieces 2.5" external  HD stack together.
4. Works off 2x18650  lithium battery.  Yet to test out the battery life.
5. Basic,  useable, and it has 1-shot mode
6. No case.  Can't save to SD.

If you can wait for several more months, the chance of another open
source handheld scope (much higher sampling rate)  materializing is
quite high.  You may get it through taobao, but paying is a big
problem though.

Ling SM

2009\11\12@055954 by Tamas Rudnai

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On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 7:14 AM, SM Ling <RemoveMEipal11spamTakeThisOuTsingnet.com.sg> wrote:
> The nano is actually an open source product, but information is in
> Chinese, and the firmware can be customised.

Is the doc in electronic format? If yes, is Google translation makes
any sense if you try to get it translated to English?

Thanks
Tamas
--
/* http://www.mcuhobby.com */ int main() { char *a,*s,*q; printf(s="/*
http://www.mcuhobby.com */ int main() { char *a,*s,*q; printf(s=%s%s%s,
q=%s%s%s%s,s,q,q,a=%s%s%s%s,q,q,q,a,a,q); }",
q="\"",s,q,q,a="\\",q,q,q,a,a,q); }

2009\11\12@112626 by Dwayne Reid

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At 03:13 AM 11/12/2009, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>Bob Blick wrote:
> > This is where scopes are heading:
> >
> >
> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/micro-digital-storage-oscilloscopedso-nano-p-512.html
>
>That looks like a nice platform for embedded development. A pity they
>show "-1" in stock :(

That might have been me trying to order it last week - I saw the Nano
when I was placing my order for a couple of Bus Pirates.

Seeed Studio has some neat stuff!

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <dwaynerEraseMEspam.....planet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2009\11\12@202156 by Harold Hallikainen

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> Bob Blick wrote:
>> This is where scopes are heading:
>>
>> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/micro-digital-storage-oscilloscopedso-nano-p-512.html
>
> That looks like a nice platform for embedded development. A pity they
> show "-1" in stock :(

Maybe that 0xffff or 65,535 in stock?

Harold


--
FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com - Advertising
opportunities available!

2009\11\12@203059 by Bruno L. Albrecht [GMAIL]

picon face
it says it is a 32 bits system, so 0xFFFFFFFF or 4.294.967.295 in stock?
ok ok...probably not...

 Bruno L. Albrecht
 Eng. da Computação/06
 Falker Automação Agrícola Ltda.
 http://www.falker.com.br



Harold Hallikainen escreveu:
{Quote hidden}

>

2009\11\12@210529 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
That's a pay 1 send them 1 promotion!

Anyway, that tells me that they have a vulnerable system so I would
not give them my credit card details...

Tamas


On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 1:30 AM, Bruno L. Albrecht [GMAIL]
<EraseMEbrunolalbspamgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2009\11\18@084424 by Vasile Surducan

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--0016e645ad96bd2f5e0478a56e37
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 11/12/09, Wouter van Ooijen <RemoveMEwouterEraseMEspamEraseMEvoti.nl> wrote:
> Bob Blick wrote:
> > This is where scopes are heading:
> >
> > http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/micro-digital-storage-oscilloscopedso-nano-p-512.html
>
> That looks like a nice platform for embedded development. A pity they
> show "-1" in stock :(

Chinese tools must be allways watched with some circumspection.
I've bought an UT81B  http://www.uni-trend.com/UT81b.html
for using on field and I was very dissapointed. It has low contrast,
it has a true analogic bandwith of 2MHz instead of 8MHz as it claims
and above 2Mhz its killing the edges of the analogic signal measured.
You may see how it looks a square wave of 8MHz in the image attached.
I will never buy such things.

Vasile

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2009\11\18@102930 by Dave Tweed

face
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Vasile Surducan wrote:
> Chinese tools must be allways watched with some circumspection.
> I've bought an UT81B  http://www.uni-trend.com/UT81b.html
> for using on field and I was very dissapointed. It has low contrast,
> it has a true analogic bandwith of 2MHz instead of 8MHz as it claims
> and above 2Mhz its killing the edges of the analogic signal measured.
> You may see how it looks a square wave of 8MHz in the image attached.
> I will never buy such things.

Not to be too blunt about it, but what the h*ll did you think an 8-MHz
square wave would look like on an 8-MHz scope???

-- Dave Tweed

2009\11\18@103054 by Harold Hallikainen

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>
> Chinese tools must be allways watched with some circumspection.
> I've bought an UT81B  http://www.uni-trend.com/UT81b.html
> for using on field and I was very dissapointed. It has low contrast,
> it has a true analogic bandwith of 2MHz instead of 8MHz as it claims
> and above 2Mhz its killing the edges of the analogic signal measured.
> You may see how it looks a square wave of 8MHz in the image attached.
> I will never buy such things.
>
> Vasile

If the bandwidth is 8MHz, wouldn't we expect it to turn an 8MHz square
wave into a sine wave? The LPF cuts off a 8MHz, suppressing the components
at 24MHz, 40MHz, etc. Without these components, the square wave is a sine
wave. With an 8MHz bandwidth, I would not expect a reasonable square wave
image above 1.5MHz or so (which would only include the fundamental, first,
and third harmonics).

Harold


--
FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com - Advertising
opportunities available!

2009\11\18@105259 by Philip Pemberton

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Vasile Surducan wrote:
> Chinese tools must be allways watched with some circumspection.
> I've bought an UT81B  http://www.uni-trend.com/UT81b.html
> for using on field and I was very dissapointed. It has low contrast,
> it has a true analogic bandwith of 2MHz instead of 8MHz as it claims

There's an old saying: "A spectrum analyser is only worth as much as its
first local oscillator". The complement for oscilloscopes would seem to
be "An oscilloscope is only worth as much as its front-end amplifier."

As in, you can make a scope with the fastest, most accurate A/D
converter in the world, but if the front-end amp can only do 2MHz,
that's all you'll get.

Also, you're measuring the bandwidth wrong. An 8MHz square wave has tons
of frequency components above its frequency (feed one into a spectrum
analyser and see for yourself, or look at the figures here --
<http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Square_Wave.html>). To
accurately display it, you need to capture those in addition to the
fundamental frequency. Lose one or more of the harmonics, and you end up
getting closer and closer to a pure tone, i.e. a sine wave.

It's impossible to create or capture a "perfect" square wave in the real
world, because there's always a bandwidth limit somewhere. Risetime and
Falltime can never be absolutely zero, just very close to it.

In short: 2MHz (square wave) is about all you can expect from an 8MHz
bandwidth scope.

Most good bench scopes (any LeCroy, almost all Tek DSOs/DPOs, or any
Agilent DSO/DPO other than the entry-level boxes) will do sine waves up
to their specified bandwidth, and give a good representation of a square
wave at up to Bandwidth/4, i.e. about 50MHz for a good 200MHz scope.

You really need to be aware of the limitations of your tools before you
try and use them... it's really easy to get bitten in the backside and
spend all day looking for a fault that doesn't actually exist ("ghost
hunting"), or equally miss a fault that actually DOES exist because
you're not using a scope with a high enough bandwidth for your application.

--
Phil.
RemoveMEpiclistspam_OUTspamKILLspamphilpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/

2009\11\18@105717 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>With an 8MHz bandwidth, I would not expect a reasonable
>square wave image above 1.5MHz or so (which would only
>include the fundamental, first, and third harmonics).

I seem to remember a rule of thumb that a 'scope needed to have a bandwidth
of ~10x the frequency of the square wave you were attempting to look at, so
I would be cutting your figure in half ...

2009\11\18@111106 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
This is what you can expect to see if you cut a square wave off at 10
times its frequency:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sin(x)+%2B+sin(3x)%2F3+%2B+sin(5x)%2F5+%2B+sin(7x)%2F7+%2B+sin(9x)%2F9
(If the link is too long, go to http://wolframalpha.com and enter the
equation sin(x) + sin(3x)/3 + sin(5x)/5 + sin(7x)/7 + sin(9x)/9  )

This is what you can expect to see if you cut it off at 5 times its frequency:

www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sin%28x%29+%2B+sin%283x%29%2F3+%2B+sin%285x%29%2F5
(If the link is too long, go to http://wolframalpha.com and enter the
equation sin(x) + sin(3x)/3 + sin(5x)/5 )

Neither representation is ideal, and if you're trying to measure
anything important about the square wave (rise time, fall time,
ringing, phase, etc) then you're not going to be happy.

-Adam

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Alan B. Pearce
<RemoveMEAlan.B.PearceTakeThisOuTspamspamstfc.ac.uk> wrote:
>>With an 8MHz bandwidth, I would not expect a reasonable
>>square wave image above 1.5MHz or so (which would only
>>include the fundamental, first, and third harmonics).
>
> I seem to remember a rule of thumb that a 'scope needed to have a bandwidth
> of ~10x the frequency of the square wave you were attempting to look at, so
> I would be cutting your figure in half ...
>
> -

2009\11\18@112021 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 4:10 PM, M. Adam Davis <EraseMEstienmanspamspamspamBeGonegmail.com> wrote:
> Neither representation is ideal, and if you're trying to measure
> anything important about the square wave (rise time, fall time,
> ringing, phase, etc) then you're not going to be happy.

I always thought that analogue scopes are better for these (except
that you cannot store the measurements)

Tamas
--
/* http://www.mcuhobby.com */ int main() { char *a,*s,*q; printf(s="/*
http://www.mcuhobby.com */ int main() { char *a,*s,*q; printf(s=%s%s%s,
q=%s%s%s%s,s,q,q,a=%s%s%s%s,q,q,q,a,a,q); }",
q="\"",s,q,q,a="\\",q,q,q,a,a,q); }

2009\11\18@113105 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
M. Adam Davis ha scritto:
> This is what you can expect to see if you cut a square wave off at 10
> times its frequency:
>
> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sin(x)+%2B+sin(3x)%2F3+%2B+sin(5x)%2F5+%2B+sin(7x)%2F7+%2B+sin(9x)%2F9
> (If the link is too long, go to http://wolframalpha.com and enter the
> equation sin(x) + sin(3x)/3 + sin(5x)/5 + sin(7x)/7 + sin(9x)/9  )
>
> This is what you can expect to see if you cut it off at 5 times its frequency:


wow how nice! :)

thanks
Dario

2009\11\18@121838 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>This is what you can expect to see if you cut
>a square wave off at 10 times its frequency:

Umm, maybe, but that graph only has a subset of the harmonics in it. In
practice, the cut off frequency will normally be at -3db, and so there will
be some higher harmonics at a lower amplitude than they would otherwise be.
The result is that on an analogue scope you don't tend to see the ringing
except at the edges.

However I guess the device in question is using an A/D to digitise the
signal, so whatever filter is in there will have a much steeper slope with a
true filter going down to a notch, so that graph may well be closer to what
one would see.

2009\11\18@124522 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
Yes, the reality is that those waveforms assume a steep cutoff filter.
The waveforms you'll see will actually look a lot more like square
waves with rounded corners.

-Adam

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Alan B. Pearce
<RemoveMEAlan.B.PearceKILLspamspamstfc.ac.uk> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\11\18@125357 by James Holland

flavicon
face
> > Bob Blick wrote:
> > > This is where scopes are heading:
> > >
> > > www.seeedstudio.com/depot/micro-digital-storage-
> oscilloscopedso-nano-p-512.html
> >

I have an application that this would be ideal for, the signal that I am
interested in is only 25kHz maximum. I emailed them asking about them
supplying several hundred slightly modified units a year but so far I
haven't heard back from them - it doesn't seem promising.
Cheers
James

2009\11\19@024636 by cdb

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face


:: I have an application that this would be ideal for, the signal
:: that I am
:: interested in is only 25kHz maximum. I emailed them asking about
:: them
:: supplying several hundred slightly modified units a year but so
:: far I
:: haven't heard back from them - it doesn't seem promising.
:: Cheers
:: James

Well (he says,  snaffling someones thread) I'm sure my Elektor Gameboy
Oscilloscope would do the job, an dI advertised it here earlier this
year.

Colin
--
cdb, colinSTOPspamspamspam_OUTbtech-online.co.uk on 11/19/2009

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