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'[OT] Customer Service @ CCS (was re: Bad Disk)'
1999\03\09@195500 by Wagner Lipnharski

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Sean Breheny wrote:
> What? Car prices consistently go UP,on an absolute scale,anyway. I haven't
> taken into account inflation,but my guess it that they would still have
> increased slightly. For example, my family bought a new nissan sentra in
> 1988 (the 88 model) for about $8000. The 97 model went for about $12,000.
> Perhaps I once again misread your post,but it sure seemed that you were
> saying that US car prices go down consistently.

Yes, I was talking about price/performance/technology and prices
at USA, that coincidentally an annual inflation of 4%, $8000 in 1988
means $11,384 in 1997.  The actual marketing and advertisement cost
is much more aggressive today than 10 years ago, and if they kept the
price somehow stable, it means that the production cost was reduced.
If you open the hood of an actual car, you almost can't see the
engine anymore, zillions of cables, tubes, electronics, servos,
there is an incalculable cost attached here. If you compare with
the simple carburetor, coil and distributor used 10 years ago, we
did a long progress without increased the price at the same rate.
Technically it means a reduction in the price/(performance+confort).
--------------------------------------------------------
Wagner Lipnharski - UST Research Inc. - Orlando, Florida
Forum and microcontroller web site:   http:/http://www.ustr.net
Microcontrollers Survey:  http://www.ustr.net/tellme.htm

1999\03\10@082739 by Andy Kunz

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>If you open the hood of an actual car, you almost can't see the
>engine anymore, zillions of cables, tubes, electronics, servos,
>there is an incalculable cost attached here. If you compare with
>the simple carburetor, coil and distributor used 10 years ago, we
>did a long progress without increased the price at the same rate.
>Technically it means a reduction in the price/(performance+confort).

Unfortunately, nobody can really work on their own car any more.

I still drive a 1981 VW Rabbit, have close to 300,000 miles on it, and it
looks like I'm not halfway through the service life yet.  And I can fix
everything myself.  I only gave up my 1976 Honda Civic when the body had
more holes than steel and wouldn't pass inspection for safety reasons.
(Actually, it looked like a typical NYC vehicle <G>).

Unfortunately, New Jersey thinks that "old is bad" even though I get better
mileage than most vehicles on the road.

Andy
  \-----------------/
   \     /---\     /
    \    |   |    /          Andy Kunz
     \   /---\   /           Montana Design
/---------+   +---------\     http://www.montanadesign.com
| /  |----|___|----|  \ |
\/___|      *      |___\/     Go fast, turn right,
                              and keep the wet side down!

1999\03\10@123235 by David W. Duley

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In a message dated 3/10/99 5:27:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, spam_OUTmtdesignTakeThisOuTspamFAST.NET
writes:

<<
Unfortunately, New Jersey thinks that "old is bad" even though I get better
mileage than most vehicles on the road.

Andy >>
Hi Andy,
At least your state didn't pass a law stating that a certain number of cars
sold after a certain date WILL be electric!  How the hell do you enforce that?
"I'm sorry ma'am you are the 8th customer we've had today so you'll have to by
an electric moped....Its the law!" <G>

Dave Duley

1999\03\11@102500 by Reginald Neale

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At 08:11 AM 3/10/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>If you open the hood of an actual car, you almost can't see the
>>engine anymore, zillions of cables, tubes, electronics, servos,
>>there is an incalculable cost attached here. If you compare with
>>the simple carburetor, coil and distributor used 10 years ago, we
>>did a long progress without increased the price at the same rate.
>>Technically it means a reduction in the price/(performance+confort).
>
>Unfortunately, nobody can really work on their own car any more.
>

 And isn't it ironic that we and our industry are the source of
 many of the anonymous little modules that make this so
 difficult?

 Reg Neale

1999\03\11@120201 by Andy Kunz

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>>Unfortunately, nobody can really work on their own car any more.
>>
>
>  And isn't it ironic that we and our industry are the source of
>  many of the anonymous little modules that make this so
>  difficult?

Which exactly why the only computers in my Rabbit are the FI and may laptop.

Andy

  \-----------------/
   \     /---\     /
    \    |   |    /          Andy Kunz
     \   /---\   /           Montana Design
/---------+   +---------\     http://www.montanadesign.com
| /  |----|___|----|  \ |
\/___|      *      |___\/     Go fast, turn right,
                              and keep the wet side down!

1999\03\11@155034 by Gerhard Fiedler

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At 10:21 03/11/99 -0500, Reginald Neale wrote:
>  And isn't it ironic that we and our industry are the source of
>  many of the anonymous little modules that make this so
>  difficult?

maybe, maybe not. i tend to think that it's more often than not not the
mere fact that micros are used, but much more so the fact that what they do
is almost never published. you don't need that with a coolant pump to
figure out how it works, but you'd need it with a small black box.

ge

1999\03\11@180043 by rweaver8

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I am a newbie and have been monitoring this list for about a week now.
I am interested in building a small project using a pic 16F84.I have
never done any programming but hav significant electronic experiance and
began working with special purpose computers in the late sixties.
       I am now retired and raise parrots as a hobby. My project is an egg
incubator. I like to make things for my self. Then when they dont work I
can fix them for my self. I also do all of my own mechanical work. I
have had many old time mechanics tell me that I cant work on my own car
as its not possible with out all kinds of special test equipment. Well
the most complicated piece of test equipment I use is a VOM. I could
tell you how to fix your car but I dont yet know enough about the pic
microcontrollers to build my incubator. If you have a good basic
understanding of mechanics and electronics a car is easy. Of course I
dont repair the computers in cars I would just replace it. So far I have
never found one that needed replaced. Though I have been told by dealers
that my computer [still under warrenty] was bad. I declined the offer
and found the bad vacuum sensor and replaced it.
       Getting back to my incubator project, I want to build an incubatotor
that uses a micro controller that will maintain temperture with in one
degree farenhite and use a stepper motor to move the eggs every couple
of hours. I would also like to monitor relitive humidity. Would the
16f84 be a good choice of chips?

Andy Kunz wrote:
{Quote hidden}

PS: My formal education is 8th grade almost 50 years ago. I assembled my
own computer and those of my family. I can calibrate the stable platform
for missle guidance with its 3 accelerometors and rate gyros.

1999\03\12@175013 by Lawrence Lile

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-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Weaver <.....rweaver8KILLspamspam@spam@abq.com>
To: Lawrence Lile <lilelspamKILLspamtoastmaster.com>
Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Customer Service @ CCS (was re: Bad Disk)


>Thanks for your reply. I think your advice to get an led blinking is
>good. My main concern is whether or not the 16f84 can do what I want.
> As I see it there are 8 pins and 1 of them is for ground only the other
>7 can be used as desired for output or return as needed.

There are two ports on the trusty '84 - Port A and port B.  Port A has 4
digital inputs, portB has 8 digital inputs.

One of the porta inputs can also be configures as TOCKI, a timer/counter
input, which is used in the pseudo-analog input ala app note 512.

Is this
>correct? Can the 16f84 store sufficent instructions to do what I want?


The '84 has 1K of memory.  I have found this to be quite adequate for many
simple control tasks - let's see you are talking about some timing - some
stepper motor control - and some analog temperature input and output.  I
would say it is probably up to the task at first glance.


>As I understand it the chip can use instructions in any of several
>computer languages if this is true which would you recommend?

Start by learning Microchip Assembler.  It comes free with MPLAB, which you
can download anytime.  If you haven't studied assembler it is awkward at
first, more so than Basic or Fortran or other high level languages.  On the
other hand, you can't really understand wqhat any other language is doing
without an understanding of assembler.

OTOH, you could also look into a BASIC STAMP which is a pic-based part with
a basic assembler strapped on.  Might be an easier learning curve.


I live in
>Albuquerque NM. Can you recomend a good source to purchase the 16f84
>chip from?


Jameco  1-800-831-4242 or Digikey   1-800-344-4539  They are national.

> I am familure with boolen algebra and the binary number system. Used
>them in the late 60s on a special purpose computer associated with a
>missle guidance system. I have looked at the DS1620 temperture
>controller and on the surface it appears that it would be a suitable
>temperture control. Do you agree or is there something else I should
>look at?

You've got a good grounding then.  You're biting off a big project though.
I'd be comfortable trying to do this project but I've been doing PIC stuff
for several years.



> I am going to keep your address and check back with you as I progress
>and need help.
>
>Thanks
>Ralph WeaverLawrence Lile wrote:


Don't keep my address - keep the PICLIST address.  Together the PIClist is
the absolute best resource any PICster can have.  Betweeen us we can do a
lot.

1999\03\16@110958 by Alice Campbell

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hi ralph,
snip
> never done any programming but hav significant electronic experiance and
> began working with special purpose computers in the late sixties.
>         I am now retired and raise parrots as a hobby. My project is an egg
> incubator. I like to make things for my self.
snip
> the most complicated piece of test equipment I use is a VOM. I could
> tell you how to fix your car but I dont yet know enough about the pic
> microcontrollers to build my incubator. If you have a good basic
>
>         Getting back to my incubator project, I want to build an incubatotor
> that uses a micro controller that will maintain temperture with in one
> degree farenhite and use a stepper motor to move the eggs every couple
> of hours. I would also like to monitor relitive humidity. Would the
> 16f84 be a good choice of chips?

actually, this suggests 2 separate projects. one the incubator, and
the other an egg-shaped datalogger that goes beneath your good
brooder and finds out what the environment of the egg is really like.
this is a good project, too.  a pic can sample temp or rel humid or
tilt every few minutes for a week, store the results in a memory
chip, which you can read back into your computer.  a few daily
cycles, and then you build the incubator, this time an intelligent
one that can actually reproduce a daily schedule for the egg thats
just like mom.   then the other project just follows the schedule.

good luck
alice
(have had 4 cockatoos at different times)

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