Searching \ for '[OT] Crimp headers and flat ribbon cable. Trick Qu' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=crimp+headers+flat
Search entire site for: 'Crimp headers and flat ribbon cable. Trick Qu'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[OT] Crimp headers and flat ribbon cable. Trick Qu'
1999\07\08@045433 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
an [OT] subject, but eventually will be on topic. (dt106.html 87x
programmer and emulator)

You get a strip of 40 wire .05" flat ribbon cable and you crimp a 40 pin
(2 by 20) IDC female header to one end, and a 40 pin male .6" header,
the type that fits into a 40 pin socket, the other end.

(I hope I explained that in a reasonable fashion)

The question:
Will pin 1 of each 40 pin crimped connector match up with each other, or
will they do a pin 1 to 2 reversal?

My sources say they do a reversal, my own research tells me the ones I
have access to, do a reversal as well.

Are there types that match up, or should I make it a reversal?

Sorry if this ends up as a "me too" quiz show, but I really would like
to know. :-)

Don McKenzie  spam_OUTdonTakeThisOuTspamdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

1999\07\08@053834 by Jochen Feldhaar

flavicon
face
Hello all,

IMHO it is not going to work, because on a 40 pin IC socket the pins 1 and
40 will be adjacent on the ribbon cable, and in the header 1 and 2 will be
adjacent. You would have to separate the cable into two parts of 20 pins,
turn them accordingly and place them in the 40 pin male adaptor to the IC
socket pins, but you will still have the double distance between the
connectors' pins.

Greetings,

Jochen Feldhaar
DH6FAZ
.....jfKILLspamspam@spam@detektor.de

1999\07\08@054249 by Tim Hamel

picon face
Shoot me if I'm wrong, but couldn't a DMM tell you this? Also, if you don't
already know, even numbered pins are on top, and odd numbers are on the
bottom. Or maybe I didn't understand the question?

Hope MAYBE I've helped,

Tim Hamel


In a message dated 7/8/99 1:55:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
donspamKILLspamDONTRONICS.COM writes:

{Quote hidden}

1999\07\08@055116 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Jochen Feldhaar wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> IMHO it is not going to work, because on a 40 pin IC socket the pins 1 and
> 40 will be adjacent on the ribbon cable, and in the header 1 and 2 will be
> adjacent. You would have to separate the cable into two parts of 20 pins,
> turn them accordingly and place them in the 40 pin male adaptor to the IC
> socket pins, but you will still have the double distance between the
> connectors' pins.

Hmmm....
Perhaps I didn't explain it well then.

On a 40 pin male header at .1" centers, pin 1 is next to pin 3 along the
same strip. Pin 2 is in the opposite strip of 20 pins.

Pin 2 would normally line up with pin 40 of the .6" header. The pin
numbering is different for each connector type, but what I am asking is
"does Pin 1 line up with pin 1", "does pin 2 line up with pin 40"?
or is there a reversal?

Don McKenzie  .....donKILLspamspam.....dontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

1999\07\08@055947 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Tim Hamel wrote:
>
> Shoot me if I'm wrong, but couldn't a DMM tell you this? Also, if you don't
> already know, even numbered pins are on top, and odd numbers are on the
> bottom. Or maybe I didn't understand the question?
>
> Hope MAYBE I've helped,
>
> Tim Hamel

OK, I'll explain it another way.

I get a 40 pin male .6" crimp header cable, the type that plugs into a
40 pin socket.
I crimp a 40 wire flat ribbon cable on it.
I crimp a 40 pin female IDC connector the other end.

Looking at the top of this connector, where will pin 1 of the 40 pin
socket line up?

IDC connector        40 pin .6" header to DIP socket
======                ===========
| 1  2 |              | 1       40|
| 3  4 |              | 2       39|

etc.

With the connectors available to me, I have found that pin 1 of the
connector on the left mates with pin 40 on the right, so it looks like I
have to reverse the connections on my artwork on the IDC connector.

Am I getting closer to the explanation and the problem guys?

Don McKenzie  EraseMEdonspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

1999\07\08@062511 by Tim Hamel

picon face
Ok Don,

I finally got it! You're right in assuming pins 1 & 2 will be reversed.
There's a company that solves this:

http://www.arieselec.com/products/products.htm

Tim H.

In a message dated 7/8/99 3:00:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
donspamspam_OUTDONTRONICS.COM writes:

{Quote hidden}

1999\07\08@062726 by roger

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

Crimp the connectors on opposite sides of the ribbon and #1... lines
up with #1... at least in the northern hemisphere...

Regards/Roger, in Bangkok
Roger N. Shane
Tel/Fax: +66 (2) 291-3826
E-mail: @spam@rogerKILLspamspamwnet.net.th
Postal: P.O. Box 11-303
        Phrakhanong, Bangkok 10110
        Thailand

1999\07\08@062927 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 18:56 8/07/99 +1000, you wrote:

They reverse! I never would have though it but that is the way it is.

I found this out the hard way. I have an eprom emulator here
with the ribbon cable split into pairs and twisted 180 degrees to
match the pins back up as I designed it _BEFORE_ actually having the
IDC header to look at.

Don't get burnt like I did.

Jim




{Quote hidden}

________________________________________
Email: RemoveMEnewfoundTakeThisOuTspampipeline.com.au
http://www.new-elect.com
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers and firmware
upgrades for many programmers.
________________________________________

1999\07\08@091423 by Bob Drzyzgula

flavicon
face
On Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 08:01:37PM +1000, Don McKenzie wrote:
>
> I get a 40 pin male .6" crimp header cable, the type that plugs into a
> 40 pin socket.

Don,

Here's a diagram, pictured from from the top, so that you are
looking down at the split IDC skewers that grab the ribbon cable
connectors; I've offset them in the way that they'll line up
with the cable:

DIP Plug:
    40
1
    39
2
    38
 ...
    21
20

IDC Female Connector:

1
     2
3
     4
5
 ...
39
    40

Obviously, if you are looking up at the holes in the IDC connector,
or the pins in the DIP plug, it is reversed from these. Thus,
via the ribbon cable, you'll get:

IDC  DIP
1 --- 40
2 ---  1
3 --- 39
4 ---  2
  ...

39 --- 21
40 --- 20

Alternatively, if you turn the DIP plug 180 degrees, you could
have

1 --- 20
2 --- 21
3 --- 19
4 --- 22
  ...
39 ---  1
40 --- 40

Caveat: I used a 14-pin DIP plug and a 10-pin IDC connector
as a reference, but I'm fairly sure that the extrapolation
is correct.

Does this help?

--Bob

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
spamBeGonebobspamBeGonespamdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

1999\07\08@092056 by Bob Drzyzgula

flavicon
face
On Thu, Jul 08, 1999 at 09:12:41AM -0400, Bob Drzyzgula wrote:
>
> ...
> looking down at the split IDC skewers that grab the ribbon cable
> connectors
 ^^^^^^^^^^
 conductors

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
TakeThisOuTbobEraseMEspamspam_OUTdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

1999\07\08@101454 by Jerry Merrill

flavicon
face
At 03:56 AM 7/8/99 , you wrote:
>
>The question:
>Will pin 1 of each 40 pin crimped connector match up with each other, or
>will they do a pin 1 to 2 reversal?
>

hmmmm....building a loader/debugger ???

Your observations are correct - you should wire them 'reversed'.  This is
by far the most standard part configurations.

We have many thousands of products in the field that use similar cables.
We wire ALL of them in the 'reversed' fashion.  In the early days, we found
a couple of sources that would provide the DIP connector in either
configuration.  However, these were not reliable sources and we could not
get ALL sizes in the 'straight through' configuration.


Jerry Merrill

RemoveMEjerrymspamTakeThisOuTtech-tools.com
http://www.tech-tools.com
FAX: (972) 494-5814
VOICE:(972) 272-9392
TechTools
PO Box 462101
Garland,  TX  75046-2101

1999\07\08@151817 by Jeff Barlow

flavicon
face
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who learned this the hard way. Why is
it that the plugs always seem to be harder to get right than any of the
other parts?


At 18:56 8/07/99 +1000, you wrote:

They reverse! I never would have though it but that is the way it is.

I found this out the hard way. I have an eprom emulator here
with the ribbon cable split into pairs and twisted 180 degrees to
match the pins back up as I designed it _BEFORE_ actually having the
IDC header to look at.

Don't get burnt like I did.

Jim

1999\07\08@170920 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Jim Robertson wrote:
> They reverse! I never would have though it but that is the way it is.
> I found this out the hard way. I have an eprom emulator here
> with the ribbon cable split into pairs and twisted 180 degrees to
> match the pins back up as I designed it _BEFORE_ actually having the
> IDC header to look at.
> Don't get burnt like I did.

OK, thanks everyone for your feedback, it endorsed what I had found,
takes a little explaining doesn't it?
It really means I must reverse pins 1 and 2 relative positions on my IDC
.1" header artwork, if I wish to connect a PCB via a flat ribbon cable
to a crimp .6" socket header.

You better stick that in your "Things my Mother never taught me"
Engineering Notebook.

Don McKenzie  donEraseMEspam.....dontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

1999\07\08@171134 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Tim Hamel wrote:
>
> Ok Don,
>
> I finally got it! You're right in assuming pins 1 & 2 will be reversed.
> There's a company that solves this:
>
> http://www.arieselec.com/products/products.htm
>
> Tim H.

I clicked on the page Tim, but didn't chase through it all, I assume
they do a set of headers to overcome the problem?

Don McKenzie  EraseMEdonspamdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

1999\07\08@173432 by Tim Hamel

picon face
In a message dated 7/8/99 2:12:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
RemoveMEdonEraseMEspamEraseMEDONTRONICS.COM writes:

> I clicked on the page Tim, but didn't chase through it all, I assume
>  they do a set of headers to overcome the problem?

Don,

I'm pretty sure they do. I got the link from a friend, so I'm not absolutely
positively sure. I did browse through and find a DIP to IDC connector though..

Tim H.

1999\07\09@164217 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Don, I caught the `tail-end' of this but I would recommend doing a
1-1 crimp from the IDC to the DIP header. Adjust the pcb artwork on the
IDC side so that the DIP is correct. When you start `flipping' wires
around (ie: floppy disk cables), you will be sure to raise the cost and
probably bring up reliablity problems.

  - Tom

At 07:13 AM 7/9/99 +1000, Don McKenzie wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\07\09@182638 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Tom Handley wrote:
>
>    Don, I caught the `tail-end' of this but I would recommend doing a
> 1-1 crimp from the IDC to the DIP header. Adjust the pcb artwork on the
> IDC side so that the DIP is correct. When you start `flipping' wires
> around (ie: floppy disk cables), you will be sure to raise the cost and
> probably bring up reliablity problems.

Thanks Tom,
yes I wouldn't do anything but this.

If you missed the original post, it is the board at:
http://www.dontronics.com/dt106.html

The 40 pin edge connector will be multi purpose.
1) extend the pins out that don't appear on the Simm Bus.
2) give an alternative method of connection to the SimmStick.
3) act as a pod header for ***any*** 87x target board for load/go
operation.

Design by committee is never easy, but that's what I do when I invite
everyone to be involved in the design of a board.

After collating all the info that has been sent to us, a small group of
us sat down last night to drink as much of Don's beer as we possibly
could, and come up with a final board design.

The beer vanished to the last bottle, and I know we now have more
questions than answers, however I think we resolved the 40 pin thing.

Using an 877 footprint, we are going to make the 40 pin header and the
micro pinout to the same pattern.
You must ignore the pin numbering, as this doesn't line up, but it means
the 877 footprint appears as a .1" male header on the top edge of the
board.

Now, if you crimped a 1 for 1 ribbon cable with a 40 pin .6" header,
then you have a reversal problem, however if you solder the .1"
connector on the solder side of the board, the problem is solved.

As the board is also multi purpose, it's only when you want to use it as
a pod or emulator mode, that the connector needs to be mounted on the
solder side of the PCB.

As the PCB price is less than the price of the micro, we believe this is
the correct answer.

Don McKenzie  RemoveMEdonTakeThisOuTspamspamdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

1999\07\10@011541 by ShadeDemon

picon face
 Sorry for the late reply, just caught the thread.  This
may be the best way for your application, since putting the
header on the other side will make you know for sure what
you're using it for, at least if it's not 4 AM when you're
doing it.  But from hard experience, two things:  First, in
an emergency two cables connected with header pins will
reverse the sides, and are cheaper than redoing a board for
low volumes if something's swapped and the connector HAS to
be on the correct side of the board.  Second, if you have
the room, a third line of holes routed to the first line
with line two in the middle makes things easy.  Put the pins
into lines 1 and 2 for one way, 2 and 3 for the swapped
pinout.  A variation of this, you can even put a full second
connector worth of holes, shifted .05" over and .05" down,
but to do this you need tight holes, thin pads, and the thin
round header pins instead of the square pins helps too.
Link the inner pins pads and route the outers around.  Gets
hairy and twice as many holes vs 1.5 times for the other
way, but cuts the board space by whopping .05" x length of
connector.
 Good for prototypes and things you need to be able to
reverse the pinouts for, like different manufacturer's LCD
displays.

Don McKenzie wrote:
> As the board is also multi purpose, it's only when you want to use it as
> a pod or emulator mode, that the connector needs to be mounted on the
> solder side of the PCB.

1999\07\11@120801 by Richard Martin

picon face
I hope it is clear that changing the 'side' of the board
or the 'side' of the cable does NOT fix the inversion of
odd and even numbered pins that results from the unfortunate
layout of DIP to IDC headers. Do the thought experiment of
'sliding,' an IDC connector down to and around the end of the
cable, doesn't change pin-to-wire mapping.


>
> Don McKenzie wrote:
> > As the board is also multi purpose, it's only when you want to use it as
> > a pod or emulator mode, that the connector needs to be mounted on the
> > !!!!solder side!!!! of the PCB.

1999\07\11@134548 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
The swapping problem occurs 'cuz the IDC header has pin 1 at the END of
the connector, the one thing swapping PC Board sides'll do for you is
that it'll trade rows on the PCB, though.

 If your cable's numbered 1..8 sequentially, and the IDC header is
numbered to match, then if you put the IDC header in directly, you have
a 1:1 mapping.  If you put the IDC header in on the underside of the
PCB, though, you get:
 PCB   Cable
  1      2
  2      1
  3      4
  4      3
  5      6
  6      5
  7      8
  8      7

 It's harder understood than said, though <G>

 Mark

Richard Martin wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\07\12@201333 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Richard Martin wrote:
>
> I hope it is clear that changing the 'side' of the board
> or the 'side' of the cable does NOT fix the inversion of
> odd and even numbered pins that results from the unfortunate
> layout of DIP to IDC headers. Do the thought experiment of
> 'sliding,' an IDC connector down to and around the end of the
> cable, doesn't change pin-to-wire mapping.
>
> >
> > Don McKenzie wrote:
> > > As the board is also multi purpose, it's only when you want to use it as
> > > a pod or emulator mode, that the connector needs to be mounted on the
> > > !!!!solder side!!!! of the PCB.

Assumming this, did you do the thought experiment of which pin the cable
header pin 1 plugs into the top of the board, and which pin number it
plugs into on the bottom?

Sorry, missed by that much! (.01") :-)

Don McKenzie  EraseMEdonspamspamspamBeGonedontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

1999\07\16@015255 by ShadeDemon

picon face
 That's because they're converting from the linear to the
side-by-side, and the linear doesn't change by swapping from
one side of the cable.  But a dual row header is already in
side-by-side format, and putting it on the other side of the
board definitely does change things:

   1  a   2
   2  b   1

 Signal a ends up on pin 1 or 2 depending on which side of
the board the header is on.  It works quite well, and .  It
doesn't 'FIX' the dip to header mismatch, it reverses the
signals to correct for the second reversal.
Alan


Richard Martin wrote:
{Quote hidden}

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 1999 , 2000 only
- Today
- New search...