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'[OT] Cloths Driers was Muscle contraction. was: c'
1999\09\15@161056 by l.allen

picon face
> >   Most commonly tripped by (bugs in) dishwasher, other problem was with
> > moisture build-up in unused clothes-dryer heater.  I'm very surprised
> > the washing machine hasn't tripped it yet!
> > --

On a consumer advice program last night on TV here there was a BIG
serious warning about clothes driers burning houses down!!!
Turns out they are responsible for hundreds of house fires in New
Zealand alone. All makes and models. The problem doesn't appear to be
motors or electrical fires rather that the clothes get so hot that
they easily burst into flames under certain circumstances.
The warning was the clothes MUST be allowed to go through the cooling
phase at the end of the cycle, never put clothes in with flammable
residues (eg petroleum products ) on them and the wash should have
been HOT before going into the drier in the the case of petroleum
products. The lint must be cleared everytime from the filters.
Don't leave clothes in drier for hours before drying cycle as if the
clothes are dry before the drying cycle they can ... burst into
flames.
As I say this is way OT but this was a very serious warning
from the Fire Department.

This is not a wind up, joke or prank.....

_____________________________

Lance Allen
Technical Officer
Uni of Auckland
Psych Dept
New Zealand
_____________________________

1999\09\15@191408 by Mike Keitz

picon face
On Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:10:20 +1200 Lance Allen <spam_OUTl.allenTakeThisOuTspamAUCKLAND.AC.NZ>
writes:

> On a consumer advice program last night on TV here there was a BIG
> serious warning about clothes driers burning houses down!!!
> Turns out they are responsible for hundreds of house fires in New
> Zealand alone. All makes and models. The problem doesn't appear to
> be
> motors or electrical fires rather that the clothes get so hot that
> they easily burst into flames under certain circumstances.

I just obtained a surplus clothes drier and installed it at my house.  As
with everything else, I had a good look inside before using it.  I can
see several things that could go wrong and cause a fire.  If I find
another drier and a suitably long length of cable I'll have to go out in
the yard and try some of them out.

One thing that seemed odd is the high-limit thermostat is self-resetting.
If the normal thermostat fails, the heater might start to cycle on the
high limit thermostat.  A user may not notice that anything is wrong, but
the clothes would get a lot hotter than they are supposed to.  Perhaps
this is what happened to the driers in NZ that are causing fires.  If
this condition persists long enough for the high-limit thermostat to fail
too, things will get extremely hot.  They should have used a thermostat
which must be manually reset.  If the high-limit thermostat on anything
trips, there is almost certainly something wrong.

In this drier, air flows through the heater first, then into the rotating
drum, then out another opening in the drum to the lint filter, finally to
the fan and to the outlet.  The normal thermostat measures the
temperature of the air as it leaves the fan, i.e. just before it leaves
the drier.  This air may be much colder than the air inside if there is a
leak.  A prime cause of such a leak would be failing to replace the lint
filter.  Unlike most that I've seen, the fitler on this one slides into a
slot on the top of the machine rather than being inside the drum.  If it
is left out the fan will pull most of its air in through the filter
holder rather than from the drum.  Compounding this problem, the high
limit thermostat is at the bottom (inlet) end of the heater.  If there is
any airflow at all it will probably not trip, and extermely hot air from
the top of the heater will continue to go into the drum.  Under such
conditions the drying performance would be very poor but once the clothes
are dry, they could get very hot.

So overall the design of this unit doesn't seem very safe.  Once again,
appliance manufacurers are "saving a few dollars at the cost of
children's lives."  Fortunately, scary warnings about consumer products
are great for building TV news ratings.


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1999\09\15@195007 by Sean H. Breheny

face picon face
Wow! What an in-depth failure analysis. I wonder if the manufacturer did
anything coming CLOSE to this depth.

I have always heard that the main danger with dryers was that lint could
build up in the vent hose,over time,and that this could catch fire (I
suppose due to the exiting hot air).

Sean

At 07:03 PM 9/15/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
[SNIP about clothes driers]

|
| Sean Breheny
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM
| Electrical Engineering Student
\--------------=----------------
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
.....shb7KILLspamspam@spam@cornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174

1999\09\15@222031 by Dennis Plunkett

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face
At 19:03 15/09/99 -0400, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

The main problem that causes most "Modem" dryers to go up in flames is the
basic mechanics of the thing. Most dryers use a rubber band to drive the
tumbler, this is OK and often they snap, still OK (Anoying but OK) The
problem is that the same rubber band is used to drive the fan, no air,
overheat=not triped=hotspot=flames = fire etc..

Dennis

1999\09\16@022436 by Russell McMahon

picon face
>>> Turns out they are responsible for hundreds of house fires in New
>>> Zealand alone. All makes and models. The problem doesn't appear to
>>> be
>>> motors or electrical fires rather that the clothes get so hot that
>>> they easily burst into flames under certain circumstances.


I'm in NZ.
We have an old F&P dryer.
The timer is broken :-)
However, when the clothes are fully dry the temperature output begins to
rise and the door pops open and trips the door switch. Automatic self
limiting.
Don't know if this is a brilliant safety design (doubtful) or serendipitous
protection.


RM

1999\09\16@075850 by M. Adam Davis

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face
That is what I've heard as well.  Apparently you should be using stove
pipe for the dryer hose run, plastic flexible stuff should only be used
for a fott or two when necessary.

The condo I just moved into had the entire run in plastic, when I
replaced it it had about 1-2" (2.5-5cm) of lint around the walls of it
(4" pipe, so some areas there was almost no room for airflow).  I'm
surprised their last dryer worked at all...

-Adam

"Sean H. Breheny" wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\09\16@103435 by Stevens, Kurt

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face
Any large appliance is prone to collecting dust underneath on components
that get hot, effectively insulating and making hotter those parts. It is a
wise practice once or twice a year to clean them out underneath,
particularly the clothes dryer. Someone said (insurance adjuster or fireman,
not sure which) that a fair percentage of appliance caused fires happen due
to this.

       Kurt Stevens

{Quote hidden}

1999\09\16@210813 by Richard Prosser

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face
How about "someone" doing a PIC based project to measure the exit ait
temperture / moisture content. When the temp rises, the moisture content
drops or the airflow ceases the dryer heater is turned off for the cold
cycle & the machine stops 10 minutes later?
Richard

> {Original Message removed}

1999\09\16@210824 by Mark Willis

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face
Stevens, Kurt wrote:
>
> Any large appliance is prone to collecting dust underneath on components
> that get hot, effectively insulating and making hotter those parts. It is a
> wise practice once or twice a year to clean them out underneath,
> particularly the clothes dryer. Someone said (insurance adjuster or fireman,
> not sure which) that a fair percentage of appliance caused fires happen due
> to this.
>
>         Kurt Stevens

Same thing happens to computers in some offices (Ages ago, one old XT
machine I was supposed to use was having problems, auto-rebooting - When
I opened the cover, there was about 3/8" of dust atop the momboard.
Machine worked better once I cleaned that off <G>)  Glad it wasn't a
Pentium-3 or something, that'd melt the PC board if covered by dust...

We're going to see problems with "vintage" PC's some day, unless they
start building in self-cleaning CPU fans, and, especially, self-cleaning
power supplies <G>

I've been told that toasters are a real problem in terms of appliance
fires, as well.  I think due to failure to release, not somehow
self-starting - one friend always unplugs his toaster after each use, I
think he's nutso <G>

 Mark

1999\09\16@224001 by l.allen

picon face
> How about "someone" doing a PIC based project to measure the exit ait
> temperture / moisture content. When the temp rises, the moisture content
> drops or the airflow ceases the dryer heater is turned off for the cold
> cycle & the machine stops 10 minutes later?
> Richard
>
And sounds an alarm if the cool-down period is bypassed or it detects
fire!
Warning... the house is on fire.. this is not a drill..
_____________________________

Lance Allen
Technical Officer
Uni of Auckland
Psych Dept
New Zealand
_____________________________

1999\09\16@230344 by Sean H. Breheny

face picon face
BTW, a WAY OT question, why do washers in Europe (at least in the UK and
Ireland) use such extremely high water temps? WHen I was in Ireland
recently, I was using a Hotpoint washer,and the cycle for colorfast fabrics
was 60 C and whites was 90 C!!!!! In the US, the washers usually (AFAIK)
get their hot water from the hot water heater for the house,so they can't
achieve temps greater than about 50 C.

Sean


At 07:49 AM 9/17/99 +1200, you wrote:
>How about "someone" doing a PIC based project to measure the exit ait
>temperture / moisture content. When the temp rises, the moisture content
>drops or the airflow ceases the dryer heater is turned off for the cold
>cycle & the machine stops 10 minutes later?
>Richard
>
>> {Original Message removed}

1999\09\17@084957 by Dan Creagan

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face
Fires due to dryers and washer/dryers seems to be mostly a problem in other
countries than the U.S.  I'm sure it happens here, but it has not happened
within my memory in my area. Conversely when I was in England (12 years
worth), there were at least six different instances of the washer/dryer or
dryer catching fire and burning things down.  These instances were within my
local area at the time.

I do know that hot water is not assured in many homes, so the washer heats
its own - a cause for concern if it cycles through the heat period when it
is supposed to be drying (clothes + runaway heater = smoke).  This could be
a thing of the past since it has been 6 years since I was over there.

Now, if you want to talk about what is under the dryer in my house ... well,
we don't talk about that. The dogs won't even look under there anymore. I
think whatever is there has become sentient.

Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: Sean H. Breheny <KILLspamshb7KILLspamspamCORNELL.EDU>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Cloths Driers was Muscle contraction. was: cats! -Repl


> BTW, a WAY OT question, why do washers in Europe (at least in the UK and
> Ireland) use such extremely high water temps? WHen I was in Ireland
> recently, I was using a Hotpoint washer,and the cycle for colorfast
fabrics
{Quote hidden}

> >> {Original Message removed}

1999\09\18@040349 by Agnes en Henk Tobbe

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face
>Stevens, Kurt wrote:
>Ages ago, one old XT
>machine I was supposed to use was having problems, auto-rebooting - When
>I opened the cover, there was about 3/8" of dust atop the momboard.

The same sort of ages ago I left open one slotplate of my old XT. After a
while the thing developed intermittent parity errors in memory.... When I
looked at it a little bit closer I involuntarily had entered the mouse-era
at a time when there were no computer mouses available yet.... The liquid
and semi-liquid excrements of our pussy evading house mouse had altered the
physical environment of my motherboard. I rinsed it under tap water en blow
dried it.... It is still functioning. Since I place mouse traps behind open
slots.
Henk VK2GWK

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