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'[OT] Chinese swear words, was PIC There is always '
2004\10\29@044258 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I always enjoy using my Cantonese swear words (the
>Cantonese like the French are among the most rude
>people on earth so the only way to live with them
>is to adopt the same attitudes.) I may finally get
>my sample.....

had to laugh at this. Reminded me of a story told by an elderly member of
the church I grew up in.

He and his wife had been missionaries in China before the Japanese invasion
in the late 1930's. They had to get out of china ahead of the Japanese
advance, having been in areas that had been bombed by the Japanese.

Anyway in NZ at the time I was a young lad, when this incident happened,
many of the greengrocers (fresh produce stores) were run by Chinese people
who had immigrated to NZ. Sometime during the midweek, late in the day, this
gentlemen goes into the greengrocer shop to get some vegetables. There is a
young Chinese lad generally mucking around in the shop, and no other
activity at all. Elderly gentlemen looks around, and cannot see the items he
wants, so asks lad, in English, for what he wants. Lad in turn calls out
back of shop in Chinese. Elderly gentlemen then tells him in perfect
mandarin that "no he does not want those three day old vegetables, but wants
fresh ones". Lad stops does about three double takes about this wizened old
gentlemen talking to him in his native lingo, and then moves at more than
double speed to find the required produce. It was reported to be the
freshest and cheapest this family had ever bought.

Which reminds me of yet another story
At about the time I finished my apprenticeship we had a Swedish guy join the
company as an engineer in the development lab. Being Swedish, he enjoyed the
occasional sauna, something that was still relatively new in NZ at that
stage, and a sauna parlour was generally associated with other activities.
However he had found a suitable parlour, and one evening went for a sauna.
he proceeds to get undressed in the changing area, wraps a towel round
himself, and goes through to the sauna room. There are a couple of girls in
there having a sauna, so nodding a greeting to them he settles down. Various
people come in and go out in the time he is in there, and the girls natter
away between themselves in Swedish, discussing the attributes of the various
people. In due course he decides he has had long enough in the sauna room,
and as he goes out the door, says "good evening" to the girls in Swedish. He
said you have never seen two people go so red so fast :))

____________________________________________

2004\10\29@103521 by No Religion

flavicon
face
At 09.45 2004.10.29 +0100, you wrote:
>>I always enjoy using my Cantonese swear words (the
>>Cantonese like the French are among the most rude
>>people on earth so the only way to live with them
>>is to adopt the same attitudes.) I may finally get
>>my sample.....
>
>had to laugh at this. Reminded me of a story told by an elderly member of
>the church I grew up in.
>
>He and his wife had been missionaries in China before the Japanese invasion

By the way, why did the Japanese invade China?

____________________________________________

2004\10\29@111829 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 04:13 PM 10/29/2004 +0100, you wrote:
>At 09.45 2004.10.29 +0100, you wrote:
> >>I always enjoy using my Cantonese swear words (the
> >>Cantonese like the French are among the most rude
> >>people on earth so the only way to live with them
> >>is to adopt the same attitudes.) I may finally get
> >>my sample.....
> >
> >had to laugh at this. Reminded me of a story told by an elderly member of
> >the church I grew up in.
> >
> >He and his wife had been missionaries in China before the Japanese invasion
>
>By the way, why did the Japanese invade China?

We're told that it was to gain access (that could not be interrupted by
the Western powers who were becoming stronger in the Pacific) to Chinese
natural resources and to thus improve the position of their resource-poor
Empire. Thus they annexed Manchuria, and went from there.

I have no idea what Japanese (and Chinese) reports said at the time, nor
what current Japanese history records. I would not be surprised to find
the rationale to be radically different in those reports.

A quick google comes up with this page:
http://www.jref.com/culture/Japan_WWII_Asian_hegemony.shtml

"Economic and social upheaval in the 1920's led many Japanese farmers to
move to Manchuria to release tensions inside Japan, and in 1931 the nominally
independent puppet state of Manchukuo was created."
...

"Japanese people began to feel a duty to protect their Asian neighbours
from Western colonial imperialism."

Interesting.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
spam_OUTspeffTakeThisOuTspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com




____________________________________________

2004\10\29@124623 by Paul Hutchinson

picon face
> -----Original Message-----
> From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu On Behalf Of No Religion
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 11:13 AM
>
> By the way, why did the Japanese invade China?

Like the other Axis members (Germany, Italy) Japan invaded many countries
before and during WWII. I can't remember what excuses they used but, the
real reason was to own China.

Paul

____________________________________________

2004\10\30@043544 by No Religion

flavicon
face
At 11.32 2004.10.29 -0400, you wrote:
>At 04:13 PM 10/29/2004 +0100, you wrote:
>>At 09.45 2004.10.29 +0100, you wrote:
>>>>I always enjoy using my Cantonese swear words (the
>>>>Cantonese like the French are among the most rude
>>>>people on earth so the only way to live with them
>>>>is to adopt the same attitudes.) I may finally get
>>>>my sample.....
>>>
>>>had to laugh at this. Reminded me of a story told by an elderly member of
>>>the church I grew up in.
>>>
>>>He and his wife had been missionaries in China before the Japanese invasion
>>
>>By the way, why did the Japanese invade China?
>
>We're told that it was to gain access (that could not be interrupted by
>the Western powers who were becoming stronger in the Pacific) to Chinese
>natural resources and to thus improve the position of their resource-poor
>Empire. Thus they annexed Manchuria, and went from there.

Well, it was a nasty act, then. Like entering the house of your neighbour,
killing his relatives, stealing his properties and make him work as a slave
for you.

Not truly nice!

The part "the Western powers who were becoming stronger in the Pacific"
shows that we aren't any less nasty!


>I have no idea what Japanese (and Chinese) reports said at the time, nor
>what current Japanese history records. I would not be surprised to find
>the rationale to be radically different in those reports.

Sure.. maybe feeling a bit ashamed of the own's dishonesty is a human
thing, after all. A trace of conscience is better than no conscience at
all..


{Quote hidden}

Yeah, justification is always interesting.. as Hitler that was defending
Germany from the threats coming from the mighty and dangerous Polish empire. :D

At least it was amusing!

But when people die for real, I think that the smile ends..



>Best regards,
>
>Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
>speffspamKILLspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
>Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
>
>
>
>
>_____________________________________________

2004\10\30@043547 by No Religion

flavicon
face
At 12.46 2004.10.29 -0400, you wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam.....mit.edu On Behalf Of No Religion
>> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 11:13 AM
>>
>> By the way, why did the Japanese invade China?
>
>Like the other Axis members (Germany, Italy) Japan invaded many countries
>before and during WWII. I can't remember what excuses they used but, the
>real reason was to own China.

In fact, the ugly colonialism. I recall the loser Mussolini when he
talked about "glory" during Italian invasion and conquer of Albania
and a couple of African deserts. *LOL* May the fucking bastard (and
our current premier Berlusconi, which is made of the same substance)
rest in hell (but I'm greatly pessimist about its existance).

Sadly, today it still happens.. the oil of Iraq, for example. The lie
this war has been based upon has already killed no less than 100,000
poor Iraqis. I guess it was for their own good, of course!! *G*

And when in the USA buses will explode almost dayly like in Israel,
I guess we'll know who to really thank.

____________________________________________

2004\10\30@082738 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>>>By the way, why did the Japanese invade China?

As with all such questions, the answer is incredibly complex, and doesn't
really exist :-)
Most such excursions come from greed and/or reaction to others greed.

>>We're told that it was to gain access (that could not be interrupted by
>>the Western powers who were becoming stronger in the Pacific) to Chinese
>>natural resources and to thus improve the position of their resource-poor
>>Empire. Thus they annexed Manchuria, and went from there.
>
> Well, it was a nasty act, then. Like entering the house of your neighbour,
> killing his relatives, stealing his properties and make him work as a
> slave
> for you.

All that. But they were also being pushed by the US and UK in the area who
didn't want to see them too dominant. This led into WW2 and Pearl Harbour.
Japan was trying to get out from under the sanctions that the US et al had
imposed on it, ostensibly as a reaction to China, but also for more complex
economic and dominance reasons. Not a nice way to react, but it made some
sort of sense.

> The part "the Western powers who were becoming stronger in the Pacific"
> shows that we aren't any less nasty!

This sort of thing has been happening since time immemorial.
Often but not always with a veneer of justification.
WW1 allegedly started with assasination of Grand prince whats-his-name (who
stupidly allowed the M. Princep a second chance after the first bomb had
rolled off the carriage roof that morning!) But it was really just the
excuse to do what Austria had been planning to do anyway. Serbia were faced
with severe and almost unmeetable demands. They met them and got invaded
anyway. That time round they were essentially the bad guys.

In WW2, leaving out the racial exterminations, the British largely started
doing the unpleasant stuff 1st and the Germans followed. The Germans sought
to have a number of activities outlawed in war prior to WW2 and the various
allies declined. eg believe it or no, aerial bombing.

At the time of the invasion of Poland the German airforce was about twice as
strong as the Polish and the planes used were rather new - but the Poles
were seen as agenuinely solid enemy. Spain had helped as a proving ground.

>>I have no idea what Japanese (and Chinese) reports said at the time, nor
>>what current Japanese history records. I would not be surprised to find
>>the rationale to be radically different in those reports.

Note the 1962 US declassified paper cited here recently seeking ways to make
Cuba appear as the provocateur. Never implemented.

The Soviets invaded Afghanistan to "meet the valid call of the appointed
government for support" etc etc. And boy were they sorry that they did :-(.

The English invaded Quebec to assist their settlers against the French. They
'just happened" to be at war with them in Europe at the time. The sole
European ally was Austria !!!! :-). How things change (and stay the same).

US in Philippines war.

US in Sth Am various

Soviets in Baltic states.

US tends to be slightly more indirect if possible.

Kissinger in Timor (for which he should be hung if anything that has ever
happened to anyone in a war crimes tribunal anywhere anytime is relevant to
the case).

Kissinger in Chile. (Overthrow of elected government.)

Kissinger everywhere :-(

England in Ireland - potato famine era.

England in almost anywhere on earth prior to that - veryu very very nasty
people those redcoats.

____________

Our problem (children of the modern age who haven't read history) is that we
think that war is something that bad people do or that good people do when
bad people do bad things. Up until the earlier 1900s war was what you did
when you got capable enough to do it. At one stage the king of England ruled
much of France as well. At one stage it was accepted that your king could
come from almost anywhere legitimately and that he was accepted if he
managed by whatever means he did. William the Conqueror as a Frenchman had
an essentially valid claim to the English throne and he pressed it by
invasion. He did this with only a few thousand men but took over all of
England. This was an entirlet acceptable thing to do BUT he got told off by
the Pope for killing more people than he had strictly needed to in pressing
his claim. You can see the location where he built a churcj (I think it was)
as pennance.

When the germans went to war in WW2 they were firmly embedded in WW1
thinking and smarting at the inequitable treatment (which it was) that they
had been subject to by the Versailles treaty arrangements. We here downunder
swa this as nasty evil men doing nasty evil things which were definitely
wrong. They largely saw themselves as doing what people do. Rommel asked
some NZ troops he captured in the African desert what they were doing half a
world away fighting someone else's war. The mindset from even as fine and
honourable a man as Rommel (who killed many thousands of people while "just
doing his job") was such that it made no sense. Our men knew why they were
there. [[As my sone says - as german, if you had met a NZ farmer who was
also a keen rugby player (as many would have been) in the Western desert
you would have hoped that he had not run out of ammunition ;-) ]][[FWIW
Rommel rated NZ soldiers as the top ones he fought against]].

> Sure.. maybe feeling a bit ashamed of the own's dishonesty is a human
> thing, after all. A trace of conscience is better than no conscience at
> all..

Often a fairly modern feeling when it comes to war.

> Yeah, justification is always interesting.. as Hitler that was defending
> Germany from the threats coming from the mighty and dangerous Polish
> empire. :D

If you want an astounding perspective find and read "Memoirs of Field
marshall Kesselring".
Not an overly nice man, although a gentleman who fought with honour. He was
involved in so many major areas of WW2 that his comments give more insight
than is liable to be available than any one other person. in charge of
Luftwaffe in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Russia. In charge of Rommel in Africa.
In charge of Italian ampaign against advancing Allies - a very very hard
fight. (Rates Nz tropps vv highly of course :-) ).
In Europe for the final pull back towards disaster. Read that book and then
look at the standard stories in a new light.

> But when people die for real, I think that the smile ends..

Afraid so.
War as it was didn't seem to worry about this.



       RM

____________________________________________

2004\10\30@115616 by John Ferrell

face picon face
In case anyone thinks the behavior inconsistent with humanity, the
Smithsonian Magazine has a nice article on Alexander.
John Ferrell
My Competition is not my enemy!
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\10\31@000924 by Rich

picon face
The fact is that there is a lot of opinion here based on some abstract
emotion and indoctrination propaganda.  I am persuaded that those who "know"
so much have a lot to learn.  It is sad and disappointing that passion in
these words overrules logic and has usurped the desired to study and acquire
an adequate frame of reference in which to examine the issues.  These are
all arbitrary judgments and in terms of valid conclusions there is no
fundamental basis.  The reason Japan invaded China has been explained by
propagandists, historians, and now by revisionists.  A measure of
objectivity is more valuable than the persuasion of passion in the pursuit
of truth.


----- Original Message -----
From: "No Religion" <EraseMEnoreligionspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTinfinito.it>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistspamspam_OUTmit.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 5:28 AM
Subject: RE: [OT] Chinese swear words, was PIC There is always a catch....


> At 12.46 2004.10.29 -0400, you wrote:
> >> {Original Message removed}

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