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PICList Thread
'[OT] Cell Phone Chipset - Interfacing'
2000\05\08@131257 by Jim Dolson

picon face
Has anyone incorporated a cell-phone chipset into a project?  I would
like to give one of my projects the ability to place a cell-phone call
(to play recorded audio - not data), but I don't have the foggiest idea
where to start.

I thought of simply buying an interface cable and plugging into an
existing cell phone, but I'd rather use whatever chipset a cell-phone
uses instead of buying an existing cell-phone.

Has anyone done this before?  Anyone recall a magazine article?  Thanks!

Jim
wb8zbd

2000\05\08@135626 by Robert Rolf

picon face
Jim,

I think you'd be far better off buying a popular cellular phone and
interfacing it. You have the BIG cost advantage of "It already works".
You won't have to deal with the cost and difficulty of
designing/debugging a finicky RF section and meeting ALL the
regulatory specs. Buying a mass market product ensures that
you will have a much lower unit cost AND and an ongoing supply of
used phones to draw upon should your supplier discontinue the model.
Try replacing a chip set 3 years from now. 486/66 anyone?

By going with a mainstream supplier like Nokia (DO NOT USE ERICSSON!
I have had 3 bad KF788 phones from them, and they hose you on accessory
pricing) you may also find a uniformity of interface protocol across the
various phone technologies
(GSM, TDMA, CDMA). IOW all 61xx series -seem- to have the same interface
connector pin out and respond to the same subset of serial port
commands. Clearly if you can control the phone to send a fax,
you can just as easily control it for voice data (not considering
the all-digital mode).

What is your time worth to build/debug/get regulatory approval of
a phone module
VS
buy the phone, buy the cable, connect the leads, and start programming
the -project-?
Some things just aren't worth reinventing, or were you also looking
at designing your own microcontroller and development tools?

And if you're not fussy, you can pick up used Motorola bricks for
about a dollar at garage sales, and there is LOTS of info on the web
on controlling/hacking them.

You might also want to contact your local TV station if it uses
one of those electronic maps that show you temperatures from all
over your state in real-time. I don't recall the name of the company,
but the system uses cell phones at the remote locations, and it
calls the remotes to collect the live data during the weathercast.
Their technical people might be willing to discuss the 'gotcha's'
of their interfacing experience.

Jim Dolson wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
Robert.Rolf-AT-UAlberta.ca

2000\05\08@142714 by John Mitchell

flavicon
face
On Mon, 8 May 2000, Jim Dolson wrote:

> Has anyone incorporated a cell-phone chipset into a project?  I would
> like to give one of my projects the ability to place a cell-phone call
> (to play recorded audio - not data), but I don't have the foggiest idea
> where to start.

How about your device sending IR data to your phone.  There are multiple
Palm programs that talk to different cell and SMS phones:

       http://www.palmgear.com/

maybe some even have code.


(Another possibility: ditch the cellphone and use FRS radio phones: no
monthly charge, around $40 ea, 2mi range)

- j

2000\05\08@152546 by Roland Andrag

flavicon
face
Jim, two makes come to mind:
Wavecom and Falcom.  I would be VERY interested in hearing comments from
others on the list who have used these or other modules in projects.  I'm
currently in a stage of a project where I have to start thinking about which
module to choose - I haven't used one yet.  My interest lies in the data
side of things, but I may use DTFM tones, which would of course be voice.

Ironically these modules cost much the same as midrange cell phones (but no
one will trash your product to steal it <g>).

Cheers
Roland


{Original Message removed}

2000\05\08@152956 by Roland Andrag

flavicon
face
> I think you'd be far better off buying a popular cellular phone and
> interfacing it. You have the BIG cost advantage of "It already works".
> You won't have to deal with the cost and difficulty of
> designing/debugging a finicky RF section and meeting ALL the
> regulatory specs. Buying a mass market product ensures that
> you will have a much lower unit cost AND and an ongoing supply of
> used phones to draw upon should your supplier discontinue the model.
> Try replacing a chip set 3 years from now. 486/66 anyone?

You might be better off buying a handset, granted.  Just want to point out
that both handsets and modules use AT (as in modem) style commands, which
are standard AFAIK.  Also the RF section is included in the module (i.e. you
are not buying a chipset, but a module that has a chipset and some other
circuitry incorporated).  Many even have a co-ax plug for the antenna.  And
a unit that is  soldered into your board is much neater and more
professional than a cell phone.

Roland

2000\05\08@153410 by Roland Andrag

flavicon
face
Sorry for the bandwidth.. just noticed that the original post did refer to a
cell phone chipset, which makes my previous msg look a bit silly. Don't you
just hate it when you notice a mistake 10 seconds after sending an email?

Roland

{Original Message removed}

2000\05\08@164706 by Barry King

flavicon
face
> I thought of simply buying an interface cable and plugging into an
> existing cell phone, but I'd rather use whatever chipset a cell-phone
> uses instead of buying an existing cell-phone.

Why?  That would be the hard way, and anyway the chip sets are
usually ASIC (custom) to the manufacturer.  I recommend using a
commercially available cell phone and "hacking" the handset
connection to a "brick" phone.  This is what I do, it works well.

There are some cellular phone modules designed for OEMs.  See the
CVDM-3 from Wireless Link Corp (Milpitas, CA), (no web site, oddly
enough) as an example.  Its not easy to use, but it exists.

If you only need 600 mW handset range, then plug into the interface
on a Mot. or Nokia handset phone, as if you were the handsfree kit.

It is often easier to embed a car phone, since they are designed to
have external antennae.

Barry.
------------
Barry King, KA1NLH
NRG Systems "Measuring the Wind's Energy"
http://www.nrgsystems.com
Check out the accumulated (PIC) wisdom of the ages at:
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.org

2000\05\08@172628 by Jon Hylands

flavicon
face
On Mon, 8 May 2000 13:10:09 -0400, you wrote:

> Has anyone incorporated a cell-phone chipset into a project?  I would
> like to give one of my projects the ability to place a cell-phone call
> (to play recorded audio - not data), but I don't have the foggiest idea
> where to start.

Check out
http://www.qualcomm.com/cda/technology/modules/0,1604,,00.html

Later,
Jon

2000\05\08@185232 by David Huisman

flavicon
face
There are some OEM cell phone modules available. Nokia produce one - it
plugs into PCMCIA socket on your project and you can "talk" to it via RS232.
There is another one available that is smaller but I cannot remember the
company name. If anyone knows of a physically smaller OEM cell phone module,
please advise me by email spam_OUTenquiriesTakeThisOuTspamorbitcoms.com

Regards
David Huisman

2000\05\08@191550 by andy howard

flavicon
face
> From: "Jim Dolson" <.....jdolsonKILLspamspam@spam@ISERV.NET>

> Has anyone incorporated a cell-phone chipset into a project?  I would
> like to give one of my projects the ability to place a cell-phone call
> (to play recorded audio - not data), but I don't have the foggiest
idea
> where to start.
>
> I thought of simply buying an interface cable and plugging into an
> existing cell phone, but I'd rather use whatever chipset a cell-phone
> uses instead of buying an existing cell-phone.
>
> Has anyone done this before?  Anyone recall a magazine article?
Thanks!


I don't think a chipset is where you need to start, the cost of type
approval will probably bankrupt you.

On the other hand you can buy OEM cellphone modules which are a plain
diecast metal box containing the guts of a cellphone. (I don't know
which country you are in, specs and availability obviously vary. Here in
the UK they're available for around 200USD equivalent)

TDK certainly make them, Seimens possibly, I don't recall who else - but
a search for OEM cellular and module ought to turn up a few hits.

2000\05\09@105205 by mark

flavicon
face
Hi,

> Jim,
>
> I think you'd be far better off buying a popular cellular phone and
> interfacing it. You have the BIG cost advantage of "It already works".

I have tried that last year with no luck.

>
> By going with a mainstream supplier like Nokia (DO NOT USE ERICSSON!
> I have had 3 bad KF788 phones from them, and they hose you on accessory
> pricing) you may also find a uniformity of interface protocol across the
> various phone technologies

Nokia didn't tell me NOTHING about the protocol their cell phones talk at
their interface connectors. It's a "proprietary information", they said me.

> (GSM, TDMA, CDMA). IOW all 61xx series -seem- to have the same interface
> connector pin out and respond to the same subset of serial port
> commands. Clearly if you can control the phone to send a fax,
> you can just as easily control it for voice data (not considering
> the all-digital mode).

I searched the Internet looking exactly for that information and found nothing.

Just want to manage the cell phone to dial and detect Ring to pass some
DTMF encoded bits, using the interface connector.

Any ideas ?


Marcelo Puhl
markspamKILLspamplug-in.com.br
-------------------------------------------
Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
-------------------------------------------

2000\05\09@105209 by mark

flavicon
face
> > I thought of simply buying an interface cable and plugging into an
> > existing cell phone, but I'd rather use whatever chipset a cell-phone
> > uses instead of buying an existing cell-phone.
>
> Why?  That would be the hard way, and anyway the chip sets are
> usually ASIC (custom) to the manufacturer.  I recommend using a
> commercially available cell phone and "hacking" the handset
> connection to a "brick" phone.  This is what I do, it works well.

Would you please send more details ?

>
> If you only need 600 mW handset range, then plug into the interface
> on a Mot. or Nokia handset phone, as if you were the handsfree kit.

It would be possible to dial or attend incoming calls automatically ?



Marcelo Puhl
.....markKILLspamspam.....plug-in.com.br
-------------------------------------------
Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
-------------------------------------------

2000\05\09@111507 by Barry King

flavicon
face
Roland wrote:

> Wavecom and Falcom.  I would be VERY interested in hearing comments from
> others on the list who have used these or other modules in projects.

I'm pretty sure Wavecom and Falcom are the same.  They make a GSM
modem, which looks like a box modem with AT command set on the RS-232
side, and uses GSM data mode connection to make data calls to another
modem.  These are data only, i.e., I don't think the units can make a
voice call.  And they are GSM, so they won't work in the US.
(Please kick the FCC right... there for not adopting an existing
standard.  But that's ANOTHER story.)

Another one that my customers are using on GSM is the Siemens M20.
Similar product.

-Barry.
------------
Barry King, KA1NLH
NRG Systems "Measuring the Wind's Energy"
http://www.nrgsystems.com
Check out the accumulated (PIC) wisdom of the ages at:
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.org

2000\05\09@114236 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
       There ARE cell phone available that just present you with tip and ring,
looking like a POTS line. Tellular is one manufacturer that comes to
mind. I don't find a web page for them at the moment.  Digging around on
the web I find that apparently Tellular and Motorola make these POTS
cellular phones. I recall seeing them at the National Association of
Broadcasters convention years ago, but am not coming up with much right
now...

Harold


FCC Rules Online at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules
Lighting control for theatre and television at http://www.dovesystems.com

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj.

2000\05\09@134450 by Barry King

flavicon
face
>> I recommend using a
>> commercially available cell phone and "hacking" the handset
>> connection to a "brick" phone.  This is what I do, it works well.

> Would you please send more details ?

The phone I use is an obsolete GE/Ericson car phone, with TTL serial
interface at the handset connection.  My microcontroller sends
characters to the phone to act like the handset.  I look for the hex
codes for "NOSVC" and "INUSE" lights, for example, and send the hex
codes that the handset would send for button presses.

I grab the audio (mic and earphone) lines and connect my internal
modem to them.  At the time it was designed it was the best way.
Today, it might not be.  With digital airlinks coming on, the old
plain AMPS analog service is starting to phase out.  We are going to
re-design.

> > plug into the interface
> > on a Mot. or Nokia handset phone, as if you were the handsfree kit.

> It would be possible to dial or attend incoming calls automatically ?

I think so, but I haven't done this, all mine are dial-out only.  I
think the phones use a manufacturer and product specific serial
protocol to remote the control functions to the PCCard modem add-ons,
car kits, handsfree kits, and the like.

Look at the consumer aftermarket accessories and notice that many of
them are compatible across product lines.  This suggests that you
could devise a device which used this interface to connect to any of
those handsets.

AFAIK, each manufacturer does something different, there is no
standard for these interfaces.

-Barry.
------------
Barry King, KA1NLH
NRG Systems "Measuring the Wind's Energy"
http://www.nrgsystems.com
Check out the accumulated (PIC) wisdom of the ages at:
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.org

2000\05\10@223749 by netquake

flavicon
face
I remember a project that used two cell phones , one attached to a
laptop with a control stick and the other hooked to an east-european
machine gun in a titaniun base placed in a van in order to kill the
first lady.

Contact: EraseMEbrucewillisspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuThollywood.com


Sorry I could not resist this one!

{Quote hidden}

------------------------------------
netQ <netquakespamspam_OUTinnocent.com>
http://virtuaweb.com/picprog
"Home of amateur PIC programmers..."

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2000\05\10@224756 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 11:21 PM 5/10/00 +0000, German wrote:
>I remember a project that used two cell phones , one attached to a
>laptop with a control stick and the other hooked to an east-european
>machine gun in a titaniun base placed in a van in order to kill the
>first lady.

Yeah, but all they had to do was glue them together, and make it look cool.
Very little of what you see on the screen actuallly works.
(says the guy who helped make a LAN training film where the cable
connecting the terminals was blue yarn.. It looked great on film, and the
real cable looked lousy!)
- --
Are you an ISP?  Tired of spam?
http://www.spamwhack.com  A pre-emptive strike against spam!

Where's Dave? http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?kc6ete-9

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2000\05\11@022337 by Vladimir Farushev

flavicon
face
Hi All!

I think using ordinary cell phone is much much cheaper!
Look Falcom cheapest GSM modem is about 150USD
Wavecom don't want to speak about OEM parts while not 40000units!!!
You can buy GSM modem from wavecom (not OEM part) for about 250USD
While we can buy Motorola Cell with batery and SIM card for about 80USD

Thanks,
Vlad
{Original Message removed}

2000\05\11@024640 by Roland Andrag

flavicon
face
Vladimir, thanks for the research.  About wavecom not wanting to supply OEM
is very interesting - saw them at a trade fair the other day and they seemed
very keen and helpful... mmm... Haven't tried purchasing anything yet
though..

cheers
Roland


{Original Message removed}

2000\05\11@051529 by Dr. Imre Bartfai

flavicon
face
Hi,
Ericsson supplies also their GSM module called GM12. It is good for SMS
transmission, has a voice channel, but no data connection. Use with good
experiences. Price is moderate (depends on the marketing policy of your
GSM provider).

Regards,
Imre


On Thu, 11 May 2000, Roland Andrag wrote:

> Vladimir, thanks for the research.  About wavecom not wanting to supply OEM
> is very interesting - saw them at a trade fair the other day and they seemed
> very keen and helpful... mmm... Haven't tried purchasing anything yet
> though..
>
> cheers
>  Roland
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

2000\05\13@125833 by Roland Andrag

flavicon
face
Jim, two makes come to mind:
Wavecom and Falcom.  I would be VERY interested in hearing comments from
others on the list who have used these or other modules in projects.  I'm
currently in a stage of a project where I have to start thinking about which
module to choose - I haven't used one yet.  My interest lies in the data
side of things, but I may use DTFM tones, which would of course be voice.

Ironically these modules cost much the same as midrange cell phones (but no
one will trash your product to steal it <g>).

Cheers
Roland


{Original Message removed}

2000\05\13@125836 by Roland Andrag

flavicon
face
Sorry for the bandwidth.. just noticed that the original post did refer to a
cell phone chipset, which makes my previous msg look a bit silly. Don't you
just hate it when you notice a mistake 10 seconds after sending an email?

Roland

{Original Message removed}

2000\05\14@153116 by Robert Rolf

picon face
Jim,

I think you'd be far better off buying a popular cellular phone and
interfacing it. You have the BIG cost advantage of "It already works".
You won't have to deal with the cost and difficulty of
designing/debugging a finicky RF section and meeting ALL the
regulatory specs. Buying a mass market product ensures that
you will have a much lower unit cost AND and an ongoing supply of
used phones to draw upon should your supplier discontinue the model.
Try replacing a chip set 3 years from now. 486/66 anyone?

By going with a mainstream supplier like Nokia (DO NOT USE ERICSSON!
I have had 3 bad KF788 phones from them, and they hose you on accessory
pricing) you may also find a uniformity of interface protocol across the
various phone technologies
(GSM, TDMA, CDMA). IOW all 61xx series -seem- to have the same interface
connector pin out and respond to the same subset of serial port
commands. Clearly if you can control the phone to send a fax,
you can just as easily control it for voice data (not considering
the all-digital mode).

What is your time worth to build/debug/get regulatory approval of
a phone module
VS
buy the phone, buy the cable, connect the leads, and start programming
the -project-?
Some things just aren't worth reinventing, or were you also looking
at designing your own microcontroller and development tools?

And if you're not fussy, you can pick up used Motorola bricks for
about a dollar at garage sales, and there is LOTS of info on the web
on controlling/hacking them.

You might also want to contact your local TV station if it uses
one of those electronic maps that show you temperatures from all
over your state in real-time. I don't recall the name of the company,
but the system uses cell phones at the remote locations, and it
calls the remotes to collect the live data during the weathercast.
Their technical people might be willing to discuss the 'gotcha's'
of their interfacing experience.

Jim Dolson wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
Robert.Rolf-AT-UAlberta.ca

2000\05\14@155748 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
       There ARE cell phone available that just present you with tip and ring,
looking like a POTS line. Tellular is one manufacturer that comes to
mind. I don't find a web page for them at the moment.  Digging around on
the web I find that apparently Tellular and Motorola make these POTS
cellular phones. I recall seeing them at the National Association of
Broadcasters convention years ago, but am not coming up with much right
now...

Harold


FCC Rules Online at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules
Lighting control for theatre and television at http://www.dovesystems.com

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj.

2000\05\15@093209 by mark

flavicon
face
>
> By going with a mainstream supplier like Nokia (DO NOT USE ERICSSON! I have
> had 3 bad KF788 phones from them, and they hose you on accessory pricing) you
> may also find a uniformity of interface protocol across the various phone
> technologies (GSM, TDMA, CDMA). IOW all 61xx series -seem- to have the same
> interface connector pin out and respond to the same subset of serial port
> commands. Clearly if you can control the phone to send a fax, you can just as
> easily control it for voice data (not considering the all-digital mode).
>

Where we could find that "subset of serial port commands"  ?

I asked Nokia, but they told me that is a proprietary information.
Looked on the Internet, also with no luck... :-(

Thanks.


Marcelo Puhl
@spam@markKILLspamspamplug-in.com.br
-------------------------------------------
Get paid to surf the WEB !
Ganhe dinheiro enquanto surfa na Internet !
http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=DTJ608
-------------------------------------------

2000\05\15@134615 by Robert Rolf

picon face
Marcelo Puhl wrote:
> > By going with a mainstream supplier like Nokia (DO NOT USE ERICSSON! I have
> > had 3 bad KF788 phones from them, and they hose you on accessory pricing) you
> > may also find a uniformity of interface protocol across the various phone
> > technologies (GSM, TDMA, CDMA). IOW all 61xx series -seem- to have the same
> > interface connector pin out and respond to the same subset of serial port
> > commands. Clearly if you can control the phone to send a fax, you can just as
> > easily control it for voice data (not considering the all-digital mode).
> >
>
> Where we could find that "subset of serial port commands"  ?

In a 'confidential document' that is only released under an NDA.

> I asked Nokia, but they told me that is a proprietary information.

Of course it is, although I don't see any reason for their
protectionism other than their wanting to control development of 3rd
party products.

There is a telephone directory management package that is commercially
available and NOT from Nokia, and AFAIK they reverse engineered the
protocols for that function.

> Looked on the Internet, also with no luck... :-(

Oh, it's out there. The problem is that Nokia actively searches the
web for any and all copies of their 'proprietary' software (as used
by dealers & service centers to program the phones), and hits all
page owners and their ISP's with nasty 'cease and desist' letters
claiming copywrong infringement (which it is). You just haven't found
the 'underground' sites yet.

If you can find a copy of 'Nokall' you'll can learn enough by
eavesdropping on the data conversation with the phone to be able to poke
around inside the firmware and find the command decoder tree.
The rest is relatively easy. There are also several Linux versions
under development, so the source would have much desirable info.

Happy hacking if you can't convince Nokia to release the info.

Personally, I'd really like to see someone to publicly post the 'reverse
engineered' protocols so that the NDA's would be rendered inapplicable.

Obviously I can't help further without putting myself into a conflict
situation.

> Marcelo Puhl
> KILLspammarkKILLspamspamplug-in.com.br

--
Robert.Rolf-AT-UAlberta.ca

2000\05\15@134749 by Robert Rolf

picon face
Marcelo Puhl wrote:
> > By going with a mainstream supplier like Nokia (DO NOT USE ERICSSON! I have
> > had 3 bad KF788 phones from them, and they hose you on accessory pricing) yo
u
> > may also find a uniformity of interface protocol across the various phone
> > technologies (GSM, TDMA, CDMA). IOW all 61xx series -seem- to have the same
> > interface connector pin out and respond to the same subset of serial port
> > commands. Clearly if you can control the phone to send a fax, you can just a
s
> > easily control it for voice data (not considering the all-digital mode).
> >
>
> Where we could find that "subset of serial port commands"  ?

In a 'confidential document' that is only released under an NDA.

> I asked Nokia, but they told me that is a proprietary information.

Of course it is, although I don't see any reason for their
protectionism other than their wanting to control development of 3rd
party products.

There is a telephone directory management package that is commercially
available and NOT from Nokia, and AFAIK they reverse engineered the
protocols for that function.

> Looked on the Internet, also with no luck... :-(

Oh, it's out there. The problem is that Nokia actively searches the
web for any and all copies of their 'proprietary' software (as used
by dealers & service centers to program the phones), and hits all
page owners and their ISP's with nasty 'cease and desist' letters
claiming copywrong infringement (which it is). You just haven't found
the 'underground' sites yet.

If you can find a copy of 'Nokall' you'll can learn enough by
eavesdropping on the data conversation with the phone to be able to poke
around inside the firmware and find the command decoder tree.
The rest is relatively easy. There are also several Linux versions
under development, so the source would have much desirable info.

Happy hacking if you can't convince Nokia to release the info.

Personally, I'd really like to see someone to publicly post the 'reverse
engineered' protocols so that the NDA's would be rendered inapplicable.

Obviously I can't help further without putting myself into a conflict
situation.

> Marcelo Puhl
> RemoveMEmarkTakeThisOuTspamplug-in.com.br

--
Robert.Rolf-AT-UAlberta.ca

2000\05\26@164803 by Marc

flavicon
face
>         There ARE cell phone available that just present you with tip and ring,
> looking like a POTS line. Tellular is one manufacturer that comes to
> mind. I don't find a web page for them at the moment.

The Nokia "PremiCell" is such a device for GSM.  It supports voice & fax, and
external antenna.

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