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PICList Thread
'[OT] Car buying scam'
2008\01\15@093410 by Mike Hord

picon face
So, I think someone is trying to scam me out of some cash.

I've been trying to sell my car online for a few months now
(okay, 8 months) and last night I got a TTY relay call from a
(putatively) deaf person claiming interest in the car.  They
asked me to e-mail, which I did, and I got a response back
asking for my address, phone, full name, etc., and tell me
that they'll be sending a check for purchase price, plus
$200, plus the cost of "shipping", and I will pay the shipping
company and then the shipper will come pick the car up.

I'm dubious.  I'm willing to give them a little leeway, but I'm
pretty sure it's a scam.  It sounds a lot like this:
http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Scam/

I may just string them along a bit.  I could use my work
address and have them send the check here, and they
obviously already have my phone number.  I think the whole
deaf thing was just to incur sympathy, provide an explanation
for not dealing with me directly, and mask their origin phone
number (after all, I'm sure the relay organization considers
that private information that they will not share).

However, the fact of their calling and using relay means that
they are probably here in the States, if not inside Minnesota,
so if I can string this out and get them sending me a
counterfeit check, I can probably get them arrested.

I like that thought.

Mike H.

PS- anyone wanna buy a car?
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/car/534535539.html


COMPLETE TEXT OF E-MAILS FOLLOWS- just for fun.

I'm sorry, but the details of this transaction seem a little odd to me.

Can you please explain a little more exactly what you intend to happen?
As I understand it, you are proposing to send me a check for the
purchase price of the car, plus shipping and handling, and then I send
the shipping and handling fee to a third party who will come get the
car.  I would prefer it if you would pay the shipper directly, but I would
be willing to remit to the shipper upon pickup provided you allow my
bank sufficient time to verify the means of payment.

Please let me know how you would like to proceed.  Thanks!

Mike

On Jan 14, 2008 6:20 PM, Scam Buyer <spam_OUTscammerTakeThisOuTspamnigeria.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\01\15@095122 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam.....mit.edu] On
Behalf
{Quote hidden}

This is a grade A, 100% pure SCAM.  Do not touch it.

This is now one of the most frequent scams perpetrated on high value
items such as cars, and unfortunately many people have fallen for this.
The check will be fraudulent and (almost unbelievably in this day and
age) it will appear to clear only to bounce some time later.  You will
find the seller is in a big hurry to complete the transaction after
sending you the check.

Regards

Mike

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2008\01\15@100513 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> and tell me that they'll be sending a check

Why can't modern country get rid of that check thing? It is the source
of many problems in financial transactions...

My reaction would be the same as yours: OK, but only after I've got my
*money* (which is definitely not the same as 'when I get your check').
Untill then I'll send you a check that reads 'good for one used car'.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2008\01\15@102704 by peter green

flavicon
face

> This is now one of the most frequent scams perpetrated on high value
> items such as cars, and unfortunately many people have fallen for this.
> The check will be fraudulent and (almost unbelievably in this day and
> age) it will appear to clear only to bounce some time later.  You will
> find the seller is in a big hurry to complete the transaction after
> sending you the check.
>  
Looks like the real problem is the banks don't tell people (or at least
hide in the fine print) that they will be held responsible if the
cashiers check is found to be fraudulent and that the check may only be
found to be fraudulent some time after it appears to have cleared.


2008\01\15@104600 by Harold Hallikainen

face
flavicon
face

{Quote hidden}

I had the same thing happen when advertising a used car on Craigs List.
The "buyer" said she wanted to buy it for her brother, and don't worry
about shipping, she'll cover it. The phone number she gave was for
Maryland, and I'm in California. I replied that it was not really
practical to ship a $1,000 car to Maryland. Never heard from her again. I
did sell the car to someone local who found it in the local newspaper. The
car was advertised on Craigs List, ZZ-Star (a local commercial site), and
the newspaper. The old low tech newspaper is what came through.

Harold

--
FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com - Advertising
opportunities available!

2008\01\15@111622 by Mike Hord

picon face
> This is now one of the most frequent scams perpetrated on high value
> items such as cars, and unfortunately many people have fallen for this.
> The check will be fraudulent and (almost unbelievably in this day and
> age) it will appear to clear only to bounce some time later.

Funny story about that here:
www.goodthink.com/writing/view_stories.cfm?id=11
It turns out in this case that the bank is the one to get hosed.  You'd
think after something like this, they'd reform the system.  However,
they have no real reason to, as it allows them to stick their customers
with huge fees (for example, if I did this, and the check bounced, I'd be
charged for depositing a bad check, charged for overdrafting my account,
charged for any OTHER overdrafts that go through after they "adjust" for
the disappearing check, AND I'd still be responsible for the money I was
defrauded of.  That's a potential of several hundred dollars in income for
the bank- pretty hard to turn down just for "good will" with one customer!)

Mike H.

2008\01\15@111631 by Byron Jeff

flavicon
face
On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 10:26:42AM -0500, peter green wrote:
>
> > This is now one of the most frequent scams perpetrated on high value
> > items such as cars, and unfortunately many people have fallen for this.
> > The check will be fraudulent and (almost unbelievably in this day and
> > age) it will appear to clear only to bounce some time later.  You will
> > find the seller is in a big hurry to complete the transaction after
> > sending you the check.
> >
> Looks like the real problem is the banks don't tell people (or at least
> hide in the fine print) that they will be held responsible if the
> cashiers check is found to be fraudulent and that the check may only be
> found to be fraudulent some time after it appears to have cleared.

That fine print frankly sucks. Once the cash hits your account, then the
bank should be on the hook for the transaction. Otherwise they need to hold
the check until it actually clears.

But it seems the easiest way to get rid of the riffraff is to indicate to
them that your bank institutes a 20 business day hold for any non local
transaction to ensure that the check clears completely. That should run
them off just as effectively as turning on the light on cockroaches.

Trust in today's world is a truly elusive concept.

BAJ

2008\01\15@112438 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
It's very, very likely a scam.

Tell them you will only accept a cashier's check from a nationally
recognized bank that also has a branch in your area.

They will run away faster than you can say 'boo'.

Also, keep in mind that TTY services are NOT restricted to US use.
There are internet to TTY services (free) that will allow someone
anywhere on the internet to use the US TTY service to call someone.
All funded by our taxes, of course.  They are supposed to be
restricted.  The TTY portion of the scam is very common for this type
of check fraud scam.

I have a few deaf friends, and I would not want it any other way, but
every public good can and will be abused.

-Adam

On 1/15/08, Mike Hord <@spam@mike.hordKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\01\15@122149 by Mike Hord

picon face
> Tell them you will only accept a cashier's check from a nationally
> recognized bank that also has a branch in your area.
>
> They will run away faster than you can say 'boo'.

Not necessarily.  I just spoke with a friend here who says a man
he dealt with had checks from a national bank with local branches
sent to him.  Forged, of course.

> Also, keep in mind that TTY services are NOT restricted to US use.
> There are internet to TTY services (free) that will allow someone
> anywhere on the internet to use the US TTY service to call someone.
> All funded by our taxes, of course.  They are supposed to be
> restricted.  The TTY portion of the scam is very common for this type
> of check fraud scam.

This I did NOT know.  I hope I didn't scare them away with the note I
sent back to them- this could be fun!

Mike H.

2008\01\15@124758 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
Quoting "M. Adam Davis" <spamBeGonestienmanspamBeGonespamgmail.com>:

> It's very, very likely a scam.
>
> Tell them you will only accept a cashier's check from a nationally
> recognized bank that also has a branch in your area.
>
> They will run away faster than you can say 'boo'.
>
> Also, keep in mind that TTY services are NOT restricted to US use.
> There are internet to TTY services (free) that will allow someone
> anywhere on the internet to use the US TTY service to call someone.
> All funded by our taxes, of course.  They are supposed to be
> restricted.  The TTY portion of the scam is very common for this type
> of check fraud scam.
>
> I have a few deaf friends, and I would not want it any other way, but
> every public good can and will be abused.
>
> -Adam

The English in the message is not quite idiomatic American English-- it more
resembles the wording the 409 scammers use. My guess is that the "shipper"
payment address will turn out to be a Western Union thing and that's  
where the scam is... you'd be left with the car, but out the  
"shipping" fee, which would end up (probably) in Nigeria. Why don't  
you take it the next step and see
what happens? ;-)

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
TakeThisOuTs...EraseMEspamspam_OUTinterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com


2008\01\15@132611 by Mike Hord

picon face
> Why don't
> you take it the next step and see
> what happens? ;-)
>
> Best regards,
> Spehro Pefhany

Oh, I intend to, if my response didn't put them off too much.

If at all possible, I intend to have a fake check with a fake
name on it hanging, framed, in my office.

I just have to be VERY careful not to give away any really
valuable personal information.

Mike H.

2008\01\15@171757 by alan smith

picon face
ask em if they will use paypal or some other escrow service.  Thats the only way I'd do such a large transaction.  
 
 Or create a temp bank account and have them wire the funds, then close the account.
 
 

     
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

2008\01\15@172147 by alan smith

picon face
These scammers are clever..they can counterfiet cashiers checks, money orders, etc.
 
 cash or escrow is the only way to go for something like this.
 
 I was scammed once.  It was only a few hundred dollars, he was from Canada.  He didnt think I would chase him but I did....mounties....ex-girlfriend.....landlord.  I pretty much made him pick up and move out overnight.  Didnt get my money back...but did get some satisfaction I made his life miserable for a short while.

"M. Adam Davis" <RemoveMEstienmanspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
 It's very, very likely a scam.

Tell them you will only accept a cashier's check from a nationally
recognized bank that also has a branch in your area.

They will run away faster than you can say 'boo'.

Also, keep in mind that TTY services are NOT restricted to US use.
There are internet to TTY services (free) that will allow someone
anywhere on the internet to use the US TTY service to call someone.
All funded by our taxes, of course. They are supposed to be
restricted. The TTY portion of the scam is very common for this type
of check fraud scam.

I have a few deaf friends, and I would not want it any other way, but
every public good can and will be abused.

-Adam

On 1/15/08, Mike Hord wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

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