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'[OT] CCS IDE Annoyance. Any ideas?'
2009\03\07@223030 by solarwind

picon face
Whenever I use the CCS C compiler's IDE and hit the build button for
my project, that stupid popup window comes up and stays there a few
seconds after the compile process is done, just to show the RAM and
ROM usage, even though it is printed out to the status text box. It's
really annoying. Is there any way to get rid of it or to make it stay
for a shorter period of time?

--
solarwind

2009\03\08@032232 by Rikard Bosnjakovic

picon face
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 04:30, solarwind <spam_OUTx.solarwind.xTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:

> Is there any way to get rid of it or to make it stay
> for a shorter period of time?

Crack the code by removing the call to ShowMessagebox().


--
- Rikard - http://bos.hack.org/cv/

2009\03\08@043034 by solarwind

picon face
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 2:22 AM, Rikard Bosnjakovic
<.....rikard.bosnjakovicKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 04:30, solarwind <x.solarwind.xspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there any way to get rid of it or to make it stay
>> for a shorter period of time?
>
> Crack the code by removing the call to ShowMessagebox().

Are you being serious or are you mocking me?


--
solarwind

2009\03\08@043153 by solarwind

picon face
And by the way, it's not called "ShowMessagebox()" because the code is
protected and there are no names/debugging symbols. Also, the function
would probably take some arguments.

2009\03\08@130111 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 8:31 AM, solarwind <.....x.solarwind.xKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:

> And by the way, it's not called "ShowMessagebox()" because the code is
> protected and there are no names/debugging symbols. Also, the function
> would probably take some arguments.
>

That's correct, however, you could find out which function is calling the
MessageBoxA Windows API (from USER32.DLL). There are few very well written
disassemblers for that. Probably one of the most powerful one is the IDA
Pro.

However, I doubt if that is the correct (and definitely not legal) way, I
mean it should have been done without cracking the software for sure.

Tamas
--
Rudonix DoubleSaver
http://www.rudonix.com

2009\03\08@132844 by solarwind

picon face
It also takes hours for me to crack something - I'm not a
professional, lol. Is there some config file or option in the IDE or
something?

2009\03\08@160458 by Rikard Bosnjakovic

picon face
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 09:30, solarwind <EraseMEx.solarwind.xspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:

>> Crack the code by removing the call to ShowMessagebox().
> Are you being serious or are you mocking me?

I'm serious.


--
- Rikard - http://bos.hack.org/cv/

2009\03\08@164849 by John Hansen

flavicon
face
I'm not sure whether you are aware of this or not, but the CCS compiler
interfaces seamlessly with MPLAB.  You don't really even notice that its
there and while there is a quick splashscreen when it compiles it is only on
for a fraction of a second.  The MPLAB debugger also works extremely well
with C.  You do have to download a software shim from the CCS site, but they
work and play together very well.


On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 12:28 PM, solarwind <x.solarwind.xspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:

> It also takes hours for me to crack something - I'm not a
> professional, lol. Is there some config file or option in the IDE or
> something?
> -

2009\03\08@165830 by solarwind

picon face
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 3:48 PM, John Hansen <@spam@johnKILLspamspamhansen.net> wrote:
> I'm not sure whether you are aware of this or not, but the CCS compiler
> interfaces seamlessly with MPLAB.  You don't really even notice that its
> there and while there is a quick splashscreen when it compiles it is only on
> for a fraction of a second.  The MPLAB debugger also works extremely well
> with C.  You do have to download a software shim from the CCS site, but they
> work and play together very well.

Even the project wizard works with MPLAB? I'm still new to the way CCS
does things and I rely on the project wizard to set up my project for
me.

2009\03\08@180738 by John Hansen

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face
There is indeed a project wizard in MPLAB.  I'm not sure it's identical to
the CCS IDE, but it allows you to specify the type of PIC, specify where to
put the project, give it a name and add existing files to it.

I started out with CCS when I started with PICs about 10 years ago and found
it to be quite easy to use.  I've never really understood why people pay
extra for the CCS IDE when the integration with MPLAB is so good.  There was
some justification for it 10 years ago when MPLAB was a lot less polished,
but not any more.

On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 3:58 PM, solarwind <KILLspamx.solarwind.xKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\03\08@182221 by solarwind

picon face
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:07 PM, John Hansen <spamBeGonejohnspamBeGonespamhansen.net> wrote:
> There is indeed a project wizard in MPLAB.  I'm not sure it's identical to
> the CCS IDE, but it allows you to specify the type of PIC, specify where to
> put the project, give it a name and add existing files to it.
>
> I started out with CCS when I started with PICs about 10 years ago and found
> it to be quite easy to use.  I've never really understood why people pay
> extra for the CCS IDE when the integration with MPLAB is so good.  There was
> some justification for it 10 years ago when MPLAB was a lot less polished,
> but not any more.

Just tested it. It has the MPLAB standard project wizard, not the CCS
wizard which lets you select all the different options.

2009\03\08@182817 by Matt Pobursky

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On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 22:30:28 -0500, solarwind wrote:
> Whenever I use the CCS C compiler's IDE and hit the build button for my
> project, that stupid popup window comes up and stays there a few seconds
> after the compile process is done, just to show the RAM and ROM usage,
> even though it is printed out to the status text box. It's really
> annoying. Is there any way to get rid of it or to make it stay for a
> shorter period of time?

I held off answering until I had time to actually check this...

Yes, there is an option in Options | Project Options | Output Files dialog
box.

"Compile Window Up" lets you choose how long to display the compile window
for both a "No Errors" and "On Error" result of your build/compile.

I actually like it to be displayed as it gives me a snapshot of the PIC
resources my code is using.

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

2009\03\08@183651 by solarwind

picon face
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Matt Pobursky <TakeThisOuTpiclistEraseMEspamspam_OUTmps-design.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Thanks so much!

2009\03\08@184316 by Matt Pobursky

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face
On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 17:07:37 -0500, John Hansen wrote:
> There is indeed a project wizard in MPLAB.  I'm not sure it's identical
> to the CCS IDE, but it allows you to specify the type of PIC, specify
> where to put the project, give it a name and add existing files to it.
>
> I started out with CCS when I started with PICs about 10 years ago and
> found it to be quite easy to use.  I've never really understood why
> people pay extra for the CCS IDE when the integration with MPLAB is so
> good.  There was some justification for it 10 years ago when MPLAB was a
> lot less polished, but not any more.

I guess it depends what you consider highly integrated and polished. I
still find the source level debugging in CCS much better with CCS than
MPLAB. We probably spend 75% or more of our time in the debugger working on
real hardware so it is a pretty big deal to us.

I also use the CCS ICD-U40 for hardware debugging. I think it's much better
than the ICD2 and of course it works seamlessly with the CCS debugger. It's
inexpensive enough ($75) and has a (free) standalone programming
application that I supply it to all my customers and use it regularly for
production line programming.

The CCS IDE also has a lot of nice extras like integrated help with CCS C
and built-in library functions, PIC on-chip peripherals and probably a few
other things I can't remember right now.

The cost difference between the command line and IDE version is so minimal
considering you are getting an excellent debugger that I will gladly pay
for it. It only represents a few hours of my engineering time once a
year to maintain it. To me, that's pretty inexpensive.

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

2009\03\08@184905 by solarwind

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Also, don't forget code completion that CCS has and MPLAB lacks. Any
professional IDE needs code completion.

2009\03\08@205845 by Vitaliy

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face
solarwind wrote:
> Also, don't forget code completion that CCS has and MPLAB lacks. Any
> professional IDE needs code completion.

MPLAB does have code completion.

Vitaliy

2009\03\08@214658 by solarwind

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On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 8:44 PM, solarwind <RemoveMEx.solarwind.xspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Vitaliy <spamEraseMEspam.....maksimov.org> wrote:
>> MPLAB does have code completion.
>
> Seriously? I looked everywhere and I couldn't find it.
>

Ok, found one video, but no information on how to enable it.


--
solarwind

2009\03\08@233218 by Vitaliy

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face
solarwind wrote:
>>> MPLAB does have code completion.
>>
>> Seriously? I looked everywhere and I couldn't find it.
>>
>
> Ok, found one video, but no information on how to enable it.

Right click in the editor window, Properties, Tooltips.

Vitaliy

2009\03\09@011319 by solarwind

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On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Vitaliy <EraseMEspamspammaksimov.org> wrote:
> Right click in the editor window, Properties, Tooltips.
>
> Vitaliy

Thanks!

--
solarwind

2009\03\09@022429 by Rikard Bosnjakovic

picon face
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 23:49, solarwind <RemoveMEx.solarwind.xEraseMEspamEraseMEgmail.com> wrote:

> Any professional IDE needs code completion.

Why?

I have been programming for 20+ years and have never used, or had a
need for, code completion.


--
- Rikard - http://bos.hack.org/cv/

2009\03\09@075527 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Rikard Bosnjakovic wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 23:49, solarwind <RemoveMEx.solarwind.xspam_OUTspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Any professional IDE needs code completion.
>
> Why?
>
> I have been programming for 20+ years and have never used, or had a
> need for, code completion.

If someone programs in the same framework (or in no framework) for 20+
years, the usefulness of code completion is probably not that big. But
even then, if you've never used it, you can't really judge whether you'd
find it useful once you got used to it.

If you switch languages, frameworks and third-party libraries frequently
-- frameworks and libraries can easily add up to thousands of functions
or thousands of classes with tens of thousands of members --, then code
completion comes quite handy. No normal person can memorize all that as
quickly as would be needed. Also when you're working on team projects
with that same amount of internal classes, having the possible
prototypes of a function or the members of a class just pop up when
you're writing the name comes extremely handy. In a similar vein,
hovering over a variable and see its type is similarly handy. Related to
that are "jump to declaration" and "jump to definition" functionalities.

Gerhard

2009\03\09@134043 by Vitaliy

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Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I agree with Gerhard. Often I wish MPLAB's IDE was even more like Delphi's
or C#'s IDE.

Brooks was right, of course -- there is no silver bullet in software
development, but each of the little niceties make programming just a tiny
bit easier, and more enjoyable.

Vitaliy

2009\03\09@153526 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
I agree with you, Gerhard. I am also programming for more than 20+ years and
when I first saw the syntax highlight then I thought that's a stupid thing.
Then I realised it is easier to make syntactically correct code with that.
Same with the code completion: It just helps to make a code quicker and
error free.

Mostly I use vim and heavily dependent on Ctrl+P and Ctrl+[ but was also
using VisualStudio 6 for a long time and it is nice to just being lazy and
start typing something that we do not remember exactly so with code
complition it can be figure that out in seconds. That is even better than
vim Ctrl+P as it knows members of structures / objects, can tell the
function parameters, or display function headers with comments you have made
so I found it very useful - except it cannot be switched to vi compatibility
mode :-(

Tamas


On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Gerhard Fiedler <RemoveMElistsTakeThisOuTspamspamconnectionbrazil.com
{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\03\09@172421 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Tamas Rudnai wrote:

> Mostly I use vim and heavily dependent on Ctrl+P and Ctrl+[ but was
> also using VisualStudio 6 for a long time and it is nice to just
> being lazy and start typing something that we do not remember exactly
> so with code complition it can be figure that out in seconds. That is
> even better than vim Ctrl+P as it knows members of structures /
> objects, can tell the function parameters, or display function
> headers with comments you have made so I found it very useful -
> except it cannot be switched to vi compatibility mode :-(

There are add-ons that allow you to search for occurrences of
identifiers that are of the same type. So you can search for the member
.id of your struct tRecordA and it won't trigger on member .id of struct
tRecordB.

An editor that understands the language and its constructs can be much
more useful than a general-purpose text tool. Not even regexps can get
there.

This is not to say that the editor shouldn't be a superb general-purpose
text tool. But understanding the language can add much on top of that.

Gerhard

2009\03\09@175158 by Benjamin Grant

flavicon
face
I don't understand the logic of saying you've programmed for 20+ years and
not used code completion so therefor it's not useful. Maybe you should have
tried it in the last 20 years, it's not a godsend but it's certainly not
without value.

On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Gerhard Fiedler
<RemoveMElistsKILLspamspamconnectionbrazil.com>wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\03\10@023642 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I don't understand the logic of saying you've programmed for 20+ years and
> not used code completion so therefor it's not useful.

OK, can I add my vote? I have programmed for only some 15+ years, and
recently I sometimes use editors with code completion and other nifty
features like auto-placement of closing ) } etc, and they really annoy
me. Often the option to switch off such features is buried deeply inside
some specialist sub-configuration screen. Yuk!

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\10@031625 by Rikard Bosnjakovic

picon face
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 22:51, Benjamin Grant <benjamin.grantSTOPspamspamspam_OUTduke.edu> wrote:

> I don't understand the logic of saying you've programmed for 20+ years and
> not used code completion so therefor it's not useful.

I never said it wasn't useful.

Also, "not used" does not mean "not tested".


--
- Rikard - http://bos.hack.org/cv/

2009\03\10@032508 by solarwind

picon face
@Rikard Bosnjakovic

Let me put it this way:

If you don't want code completion, why bother even using an IDE? Just
stick to VIM and a Makefile and you're good to go. It's kind of like
the old farmer saying

::: "I've been chopping trees with an axe for twenty years and never
used, or had a need for a chainsaw".

Well yes, the axe + muscle method works and builds your body (makes
you memorize functions) but c'mon, get with the program. People
invented chainsaws for a reason...

2009\03\10@083238 by Rolf

face picon face
solarwind wrote:
> Well yes, the axe + muscle method works and builds your body (makes
> you memorize functions) but c'mon, get with the program. People
> invented chainsaws for a reason...
>  
Exactly, like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.... ;-)

Rolf

2009\03\10@091012 by Rikard Bosnjakovic

picon face
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 08:25, solarwind <spamBeGonex.solarwind.xSTOPspamspamEraseMEgmail.com> wrote:

> If you don't want code completion, why bother even using an IDE?

What makes you think I do?

> Just stick to VIM and a Makefile and you're good to go.

s/VIM/Emacs/

What makes you think I don't?


(The correct answer is I use both IDE and non-IDE. Depends on what
kind of project, though)


--
- Rikard - http://bos.hack.org/cv/

2009\03\10@103822 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
solarwind wrote:
> @Rikard Bosnjakovic
>
> Let me put it this way:
>
> If you don't want code completion, why bother even using an IDE?

I do like the "press a build all button, click on the first error, your
cursor will be put on the offending source line". and I don't object to
specifying the list of source files in a project pane, and having the
IDE sort out the makefile (but I'd like to have an option to intervene
when needed). and there are plenty more things I like, but NOT code
completion.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\10@110411 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Wouter van Ooijen <KILLspamwouterspamBeGonespamvoti.nl> wrote:

> > If you don't want code completion, why bother even using an IDE?
>
> I do like the "press a build all button, click on the first error, your
> cursor will be put on the offending source line". and I don't object to
> specifying the list of source files in a project pane, and having the
> IDE sort out the makefile (but I'd like to have an option to intervene
> when needed). and there are plenty more things I like, but NOT code
> completion.


You can do that with vim or emacs.

Tamas
--
Rudonix DoubleSaver
http://www.rudonix.com

2009\03\10@113425 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
Tamas Rudnai wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Wouter van Ooijen <EraseMEwouterspamEraseMEvoti.nl> wrote:
>
>>> If you don't want code completion, why bother even using an IDE?
>> I do like the "press a build all button, click on the first error, your
>> cursor will be put on the offending source line". and I don't object to
>> specifying the list of source files in a project pane, and having the
>> IDE sort out the makefile (but I'd like to have an option to intervene
>> when needed). and there are plenty more things I like, but NOT code
>> completion.
>
>
> You can do that with vim or emacs.

- my writing stated a few examples, not an exhaustive list
- who says vim or emacs (with suitable extensions) don't qualify as IDEs?
- I don't use vim or emcas in this way because (for me) the purpose of
an IDE is to shield me from such details, I am sure it is possible to do
such things but I want it to be done for me, not having to configure it
myself.


--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\10@134258 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
solarwind wrote:
> Let me put it this way:
>
> If you don't want code completion, why bother even using an IDE? Just
> stick to VIM and a Makefile and you're good to go. It's kind of like
> the old farmer saying
>
> ::: "I've been chopping trees with an axe for twenty years and never
> used, or had a need for a chainsaw".
>
> Well yes, the axe + muscle method works and builds your body (makes
> you memorize functions) but c'mon, get with the program. People
> invented chainsaws for a reason...

Your story reminds me of another story.

A big guy walks into a store, and tells the clerk that he wants to return
the chain saw, because it does not perform as advertized: "I was told it
could cut ten logs an hour, but I can only make it do five". The clerk takes
the chain saw, says "Well, let's see here", and starts the chain saw:
"Vroooooom!"  Big guy: "Wait a minute, how did you make it do that?"


2009\03\10@153621 by solarwind

picon face
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Vitaliy <@spam@spam@spam@spamspam_OUTmaksimov.org> wrote:
> Your story reminds me of another story.
>
> A big guy walks into a store, and tells the clerk that he wants to return
> the chain saw, because it does not perform as advertized: "I was told it
> could cut ten logs an hour, but I can only make it do five". The clerk takes
> the chain saw, says "Well, let's see here", and starts the chain saw:
> "Vroooooom!"  Big guy: "Wait a minute, how did you make it do that?"

LOL! I LOVE IT!

--
solarwind

2009\03\10@192758 by Forrest W Christian
flavicon
face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> OK, can I add my vote? I have programmed for only some 15+ years, and
> recently I sometimes use editors with code completion and other nifty
> features like auto-placement of closing ) } etc, and they really annoy
> me. Often the option to switch off such features is buried deeply inside
> some specialist sub-configuration screen. Yuk!
>  
I agree, to some extent.    In fact, there is only one language where I
*like* autocompletion, and that's RealBasic - and that's just because it
is so highly object oriented that it is really useful for the
autocompletion tools to help you with what values are there.   Actually
I think in realbasic I like *all* of the features that we are griping about.

In anything other than realbasic, I dispise autocompletion.   About the
only features I like that are in this category are syntax coloring, and
I like a editor which allows me to indent a block (yes, I know, most
modern editors do this fine).    Oh, and occasionally some really
intelligent context-sensitive language/library help, when you can't
remember for sure what order the arguments are - that is, you can hit f1
(or another key), and see the library documentation for the function you
are on.

-forrest

2009\03\10@193627 by cdb

flavicon
face


:: n fact, there is only one language where I
:: *like* autocompletion, and that's RealBasic

I don't like their autocompletion hows yer father because once it has
started the auto complete, you can't just press the enter button - one
has to continue writing, which makes the auto thingy some what
redundant to me. MS Studio Express at leasts offers you some choices
and then you can carry on yourself or accept what it offers.

Colin
--
cdb, spamBeGonecolinspamKILLspambtech-online.co.uk on 11/03/2009

Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

Hosted by:  http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359







2009\03\11@001841 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Mar 10, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Forrest W Christian wrote:

> I think in realbasic I like *all* of the features

The thing I like about IDEs in general is that they seem to be  
consistently aimed at a PARTICULAR language/target/host.  And when you  
start talking about different targets, you run into subtle annoying  
differences.  I do too many things to trip up on gratuitous  
incompatibility.  Gimme emacs (basically compatible versions on ITS,  
TOPS20, TOPS20, VMS, UNIX, CPM, MSDOS, macos, windows, etc, etc)  (to  
be fair, other editors have also reached that degree of penetration,  
and even the default GUI "editable text panel" isn't AWFUL any more.)

Eclipse might have been the answer, but I can't even get past the fact  
that it doesn't seem to allow my preferred black background (cursors  
disappear.)  :-(

BillW

2009\03\11@021655 by Forrest W Christian

flavicon
face
William "Chops" Westfield wrote:
>
>   Gimme emacs (basically compatible versions on ITS,  
> TOPS20, TOPS20, VMS, UNIX, CPM, MSDOS, macos, windows, etc, etc)  (to  
> be fair, other editors have also reached that degree of penetration,  
> and even the default GUI "editable text panel" isn't AWFUL any more.)
>  
Yes, we could definitely turn this into a vi versus emacs war  :)...

My favorite editor is actually vi.   Or more accurately vim with syntax
highlighting enabled.   People love to complain about vi, but as a
programmer I am significantly more productive editing-wise in vi than
any other editor.   Too much reaching for the mouse with everything
else, plus it is just incredible what you can do in vi with just a few
keystrokes.

That said, I typically *do* end up using the built in editor in most
development environments, just because the lost productivity with using
an editor that isn't vi isn't enough to justify extracting the editor
out of the make environment (including error highlighting).   But if
there isn't any good reason to use the IDE, I almost always reach for vi.

-forrest

2009\03\11@022559 by Rikard Bosnjakovic

picon face
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 07:18, Forrest W Christian <.....forrestcspam_OUTspamimach.com> wrote:

> Yes, we could definitely turn this into a vi versus emacs war  :)...

So, who will be the first throwing a flame bait? ;-)


--
- Rikard - http://bos.hack.org/cv/

2009\03\11@022827 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Forrest W Christian <TakeThisOuTforrestc.....spamTakeThisOuTimach.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

No wai dooood, all t3h c00l ppl program by editing binary directly
with a parallel toggle switch plate with latch button.

2009\03\11@023259 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> About the
> only features I like that are in this category are syntax coloring, and
> I like a editor which allows me to indent a block (yes, I know, most
> modern editors do this fine).    Oh, and occasionally some really
> intelligent context-sensitive language/library help, when you can't
> remember for sure what order the arguments are - that is, you can hit f1
> (or another key), and see the library documentation for the function you
> are on.

I have no problem or even like most of those features. The common factor
is that you have to take some specific action to invoke the feature,
instead of it being invoked automatically while you are typing.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\11@024216 by Vitaliy

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face
Rikard Bosnjakovic wrote:
>> Yes, we could definitely turn this into a vi versus emacs war  :)...
>
> So, who will be the first throwing a flame bait? ;-)

I don't use either vi or emacs, therefore they both suck.

Vitaliy

2009\03\11@024438 by Vitaliy

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face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>> About the
>> only features I like that are in this category are syntax coloring, and
>> I like a editor which allows me to indent a block (yes, I know, most
>> modern editors do this fine).    Oh, and occasionally some really
>> intelligent context-sensitive language/library help, when you can't
>> remember for sure what order the arguments are - that is, you can hit f1
>> (or another key), and see the library documentation for the function you
>> are on.
>
> I have no problem or even like most of those features. The common factor
> is that you have to take some specific action to invoke the feature,
> instead of it being invoked automatically while you are typing.

So what's the problem, does it cause you to stumble while typing?


2009\03\11@031053 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 6:41 AM, Vitaliy <TakeThisOuTspamKILLspamspamspammaksimov.org> wrote:

> I don't use either vi or emacs, therefore they both suck.
>

LOL!

--
Rudonix DoubleSaver
http://www.rudonix.com

2009\03\11@031345 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Wouter van Ooijen <.....wouterspamRemoveMEvoti.nl> wrote:

> I have no problem or even like most of those features. The common factor
> is that you have to take some specific action to invoke the feature,
> instead of it being invoked automatically while you are typing.
>

In most of the editor you can setup the code complition to do it
automagically or by a keystroke. I agree with you that the automagic is
annoying.

Tamas
--
Rudonix DoubleSaver
http://www.rudonix.com

2009\03\11@032002 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 6:18 AM, Forrest W Christian <RemoveMEforrestcspamspamBeGoneimach.com>wrote:

> My favorite editor is actually vi.   Or more accurately vim with syntax
> highlighting enabled.
>

Good man :-)


> That said, I typically *do* end up using the built in editor in most
> development environments, just because the lost productivity with using
> an editor that isn't vi isn't enough to justify extracting the editor
> out of the make environment (including error highlighting).   But if
> there isn't any good reason to use the IDE, I almost always reach for vi.
>

Many times I use vim to edit PIC asm and C code and then just use the MPLAB
for compiling and simulation. Works great, Alt+TAB is a great invention :-)
The only issue is when there is an error in compiling, so that I have to
jump into the source line with <num>G instead of just double clicking on the
error message.

Tamas
--
Rudonix DoubleSaver
http://www.rudonix.com

2009\03\11@062629 by Dave Tweed

face
flavicon
face
Rikard Bosnjakovic wrote:
> Forrest W Christian <spamBeGoneforrestc@spam@spamspam_OUTimach.com> wrote:
> > Yes, we could definitely turn this into a vi versus emacs war  :)...
>
> So, who will be the first throwing a flame bait? ;-)

Some oil for troubled waters: viper-mode ... the best of both worlds.

-- Dave Tweed

2009\03\11@182557 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> So what's the problem, does it cause you to stumble while typing?

no, it causes characters on the screen that I did not type.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\11@183636 by solarwind

picon face
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Wouter van Ooijen <TakeThisOuTwouterspamspamvoti.nl> wrote:
>> So what's the problem, does it cause you to stumble while typing?
>
> no, it causes characters on the screen that I did not type.

No it doesn't... They don't insert the text unless you press enter. It
merely shows a drop-down list of possible matches.

2009\03\12@022205 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
solarwind wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Wouter van Ooijen <wouterEraseMEspamvoti.nl> wrote:
>>> So what's the problem, does it cause you to stumble while typing?
>> no, it causes characters on the screen that I did not type.
>
> No it doesn't... They don't insert the text unless you press enter. It
> merely shows a drop-down list of possible matches.

I was talking about auto-placement of )}] etc in PSPad. That certainly does.

Autocompletion that does not enter anything unless I acknowledge is one
step less irritating (it steel confuses me when I see it, I look at the
screen while I type). But for obvious reasons the acknowledge must not
be a keyboard character.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

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