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'[OT] Boston mistakes LED lights in the shape of ac'
2007\02\01@144927 by Jeff Findley

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"Mike Hord" <spam_OUTmike.hordTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:.....88eca9220702011120u23f2356bi46c92063e8566e1cKILLspamspam@spam@mail.gmail.com...> > The way the authorities are dealing with this INFURIARATES me.  It
> wasn't a demonstration of how good they are at reacting to possible
> threats, it was a demonstration of how poor the judgement skills of
> the establishment have become.
>
> 1.  These things were in place for days or weeks before this whole
> debacle occured.  No terrorist group in their right mind would leave
> bombs visible for weeks before detonating them.
> 2.  No terrorist group would leave bombs in highly visible locations
> with animated cartoon characters on them.
> 3.  This obviously was NOT a hoax, and yet the authorities insist
> on repeatedly publicly referring to it as one.  I heard this morning
> that at least two people have been arrested related to it.
>
> This is a demonstration of how mass hysteria over "terrorism" has
> completely replaced common sense.  I didn't think things had
> gotten this bad, but I guess they have.

We truly are losing the battle against the terrorists if we continue to live
in a state of terror.  Both the overreaction of law enforcement and of news
agencies like CNN just makes the public more upset over what should have
been a non-event.

Jeff
--
   "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
    little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
    safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)



2007\02\01@151621 by Martin Klingensmith

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"BRB" I'm going to buy some LEDs.
--
Martin K

James Newtons Massmind wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\02\01@155711 by Paul Anderson

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On 2/1/07, Jinx <joecolquittspamKILLspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
>
> Just look at the language they use here and the dented pride/egos
> behind it - "bomblike" "hoax" "outrageous" "corporate greed"
>
They arrested the fellows who did it, too.  The overreaction is astounding.


--
Paul Anderson
VE3HOP
.....wackyvorlonKILLspamspam.....gmail.com
http://www.oldschoolhacker.com
"May the electromotive force be with you."

2007\02\01@162455 by Herbert Graf

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On Fri, 2007-02-02 at 09:36 +1300, Jinx wrote:
> > We truly are losing the battle against the terrorists if we continue to
> > live in a state of terror
>
> If you can't show a cartoon character (from a program I never
> understood) flipping the bird, the terrorists have won

Absolutely.

> The authorities are beating this up so they don't look so slack
>
> Just look at the language they use here and the dented pride/egos
> behind it - "bomblike" "hoax" "outrageous" "corporate greed"

The authorities overreacted (again), and instead of admitting this they
come up with excuse after excuse to make their actions seem warranted.
Then they start blaming OTHERS for their overreaction. The worst part is
it lengthens the line of what overreaction means.

I can't wait for the day that a subway station or something is closed
because a child drew a bird on a wall with some sidewalk chalk.

Common people are living in fear, for no real reason, that to me means
the terrorists have achieved what they want.

TTYL

2007\02\01@185407 by Marc Nicholas

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On 2/1/07, Jinx <EraseMEjoecolquittspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTclear.net.nz> wrote:
>
>
> > Good job they didn't do that in Canada. I hear those guys make the
> > Americans look like tree-hugging Liberals!
>
> Well the Mounties did root out that cell led by Gordy Bin Laden eh
>
>

Well, he was wearing a tuque**!!!!!!

** Translation for those outside of North America:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toque_%28Canadian%29

-marc

2007\02\01@190152 by Cedric Chang

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This is insanely stupid
I would walk up and play with the box.
( As if a terrorist would make such a device )
The city of boston should apologize to these guys
I sent a letter to the Boston Mayor suggesting prosecuting anyone
for a felony is asinine.

cedric


On 2007-Feb 01, at 13:12hrs PM, Martin Klingensmith wrote:

"BRB" I'm going to buy some LEDs.
--
Martin K

James Newtons Massmind wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\02\01@190629 by Jinx

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> Exactly my point.  The whole point of a bomb is to kill people and
> destroy property.  If it is obvious, someone will notice it, people will
> run, and the bomb squad will wreck your hard work

If you're a terrorist though you don't necessarily have to have a bomb,
only make people think you have or might have

A person who lets off one unannounced bomb isn't a terrorist, but
someone who has a campaign of fear, actually realised or not, is. It
could be as simple as repeatedly phoning in hoaxes to an airline,
which ties up resources and could eventually lead to a cry-wolf
situation

That's why I feel the reaction in the Boston incident is counter-
productive. You can only scare the population so many times
before they become cynical and disbelieving

The "devices" in Boston are so 1960s Batman (admittedly with
the benefit of 20-20 hindsight) and had apparently been in plain
sight for so long that it's hard not to think of the city officers as
headless chooks, who will now have to re-build the trust of
Bostonians. Because in the future they *will* need mutual trust


2007\02\02@102747 by William Couture

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On 2/1/07, Herbert Graf <mailinglist3spamspam_OUTfarcite.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

For a humorous take on this, check out today's "Joy Of Tech" cartoon:

http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/

(http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyimages/919.gif if this isn't
Feburary 2nd, 2007)

Bill

--
Psst...  Hey, you... Buddy...  Want a kitten?  straycatblues.petfinder.org

2007\02\02@104849 by alan smith

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But...the bigger question is.....was there a PIC in there controlling the LEDs??
 
 :-)

James Newtons Massmind <@spam@jamesnewtonKILLspamspammassmind.org> wrote:
 > "BRB" I'm going to buy some LEDs.
> --
> Martin K

Going to make a box with LEDs that spell out "THIS IS NOT A BOMB"?



---
James.


2007\02\02@110943 by David VanHorn

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All this could have been prevented with a letter to the chief of police,
describing what they were doing, with pictures of the devices, and dates.

We do "foxhunts" which involve setting a transmitter and antenna somewhere,
and having guys with odd antennas driving around.  Now I HAVE been called in
as a "suspicious vehicle", but we've never had any problem with our gadgets
causing a panic.

2007\02\02@113812 by Mike Hord

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> All this could have been prevented with a letter to the chief of police,
> describing what they were doing, with pictures of the devices, and dates.

Fair enough.  Although looking at these devices, were I the one who
orchestrated the placement of them, it would never have crossed my
mind that they were in any way threatening.  I'd have expected a minor
furor over a blinking cartoon character making an obscene gesture, and
perhaps to have them taken down by prudish authorities and college kids
looking for a cool dorm room decoration, and MAYBE an outside chance
of some sort of public vulgarity or indecency citation (or vandalism or
littering or... but NOT felony terrorism hoax).  I would certainly NEVER
expect this level of chaos to result.

If I didn't know about the slippery slope logical fallacy, I'd say that this
sort of overreaction cheapens the standard of defining a terrorism hoax,
and that before you know it, some smart alec with a "Better Bin Laden
Than Bush" bumper sticker is getting arrested for it, and the First
Amendment is in the toilet.  Of course, I DO know about the logical
fallacy there.

The "cry-wolf" phenomenon here is serious, as well.  Next time this
happens, will people listen?  Probably less than they would have before
this.  "Oh, it's just another publicity stunt gone wrong."

The authorities in Boston screwed up.  I guess the biggest concern I
have is that by nailing these two poor suckers to the wall over this,
they are demonstrating that they learned NOTHING from it.  Taking
blame is (IMHO) a key element to learning from a mistake.  Rather
than assessing where the system broke down and allowed this to
become an officially sanctioned city-wide panic, they are pointing
fingers every direction but where they should be pointed.

I expect to see this thing from one person, but from an entire city?
Come on.

Mike H.

2007\02\02@125940 by Cedric Chang

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What a "slavelike" thing to do.  What if the police chief says "no" ?
Do it anyway ?
Cedric


On 2007-Feb 02, at 09:09hrs AM, David VanHorn wrote:

All this could have been prevented with a letter to the chief of police,
describing what they were doing, with pictures of the devices, and  
dates.

We do "foxhunts" which involve setting a transmitter and antenna  
somewhere,
and having guys with odd antennas driving around.  Now I HAVE been  
called in
as a "suspicious vehicle", but we've never had any problem with our  
gadgets
causing a panic.

2007\02\02@133056 by David VanHorn

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On 2/2/07, Cedric Chang <KILLspamCedricKILLspamspamnope9.com> wrote:
>
> What a "slavelike" thing to do.  What if the police chief says "no" ?
> Do it anyway ?
> Cedric


They can't really say "no".  It's entirely legal.
It's just courteous to inform them of something that could be
misinterpreted.
We've been doing it this way for a LOOOONG time, since before I got involved
in the 80's.


An ammo can, a bunch of wire, an antenna, all somewhat concealed on public
property.

2007\02\02@153746 by Jeff Findley

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"Mike Hord" <RemoveMEmike.hordTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:spamBeGone88eca9220702011453t10aa248awb0bb0d66a69d5262spamBeGonespammail.gmail.com...> >> Similarly, all you have to do is SAY you're NOT a threat, and all should
>> be fine, according to most people... How could it be a bomb, it didn't
>> have any blinky lights and no "beep beep beep"...
>
> Exactly my point.  The whole point of a bomb is to kill people and destroy
> property.  If it is obvious, someone will notice it, people will run, and
> the
> bomb squad will wreck your hard work.
>
> I would hazard a guess that your average GI, fresh back from Iraq and
> accustomed to looking for bombs all the time, would have noticed a
> thousand OTHER objects near these things (old tires, tied up plastic
> bags, a full McDonald's bag, etc.) before worrying about them.

One of the news stories I heard was that insurgents were hiding bombs in the
curb of the street and detonating them via radio.  I'm sure it takes a bit
of time and work to pour some new concrete around your bomb, but when it's
done, it's hard to spot.

Not to mention car bombs...

Jeff
--
   "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
    little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
    safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)



2007\02\02@154956 by Howard Winter

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Cedric,

(rearranging for readability)...

On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 10:55:27 -0700, Cedric Chang wrote:

> On 2007-Feb 02, at 09:09hrs AM, David VanHorn wrote:
>
>> All this could have been prevented with a letter to the chief of police,
>> describing what they were doing, with pictures of the devices, and  
>> dates.


> What a "slavelike" thing to do.  What if the police chief says "no" ?
> Do it anyway ?

Dave didn't say they asked permission, just said what they were going to do.  There's quite a difference!  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\02\02@180952 by Cedric Chang

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On 2007-Feb 02, at 13:49hrs PM, Howard Winter wrote:

Cedric,

(rearranging for readability)...

On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 10:55:27 -0700, Cedric Chang wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Dave didn't say they asked permission, just said what they were going  
to do.  There's quite a difference!  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England

Well actually, they are asking to not be hassled and arrested for a  
legal activity.
It is the police in Boston who should get some new training.  What  
idiots !
There is no one as enslaved as those who do not realize they are.

Cedric



2007\02\02@193848 by Nate Duehr

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On 2/2/07, David VanHorn <TakeThisOuTdvanhornEraseMEspamspam_OUTmicrobrix.com> wrote:

> We do "foxhunts" which involve setting a transmitter and antenna somewhere,
> and having guys with odd antennas driving around.  Now I HAVE been called in
> as a "suspicious vehicle", but we've never had any problem with our gadgets
> causing a panic.

And just like the Boston authorities, anyone who thinks a terrorist is
going to make their vehicle look like your DF truck -- and draw
attention to themselves -- is a moron.

You're no more "suspicious" than the stormchasers in Kansas, Nebraska,
Oklahoma, etc...

Whoever called you in should have been SCOLDED by their supervisor.

Until they get over their Jack Bower wanna-bee attitudes and THINK
about what kinds of panic THEIR actions will cause, there's going to
continue to be problems.

Nate

2007\02\02@214843 by Piclist

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>> Freedom of speech does mean you can shout "fire"  in a theatre.
>
>You can say anything you want, but you may have to face the
>consequences
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater
>
>"the phrase "shouting fire in a crowded theater" has since come to be
>known as synonymous with an action that the speaker believes goes
>beyond the rights guaranteed by free speech, reckless or malicious
>speech, or an action whose outcomes are blatantly obvious"
>
>You just don't tempt fate unless you're a complete wonk. Which, at
>18, this guy probably is
>
>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10422292
>


I have not been able to verify this, so do take this with a grain of
salt.  It goes along the lines with the "has a gun" at the airport.

"bomb" in Portuguese is "bomba", and "air pump" as the ones you use to
fill up a soccer ball is also called a "bomba".  Back when that plane
crash happened in Brazil last year (the mid air collision between a
legacy and an airliner), I was discussing with my cousin about the
legality of the Brazilian authorities holding the American pilots in the
country, although free to roam around and not in jail, until the
investigation showed whether they were responsible or not for the
accident.  One of his replies where "why not? A few years back they put
two Brazilian young men in jail in California because they had an air
pump in their carry on and when it went through the x-ray machine they
were asked what it was.  When one of the boys said "a bomb" not knowing
that what he really meant to say was "an air pump" they were arrested,
tried and spent one year in jail for it."

So, if this is really true, and like I said, I was not able to verify it
because my google searches did not return anything about it, depending
on where you are, not only can you not scream "fire" in the theater, but
you can't say anything that may be interpreted as "fire" in the theater.
Any descent district attorney and judge would've scolded the boys for
what they said and maybe even given them some community service as
punishment, but the court decided that the boys did indeed mean to cause
an uproar at the airport because they were questioned about their carry
on belongings.

I'm all up for security everywhere, and do not understand why the US is
the only country I've been in the world where there are not military man
holding machine guns near by airport walkways.  Everywhere I've gone,
their presence seemed to make sense to me.  But for some reason, here in
the US people want security without those things that ensure security to
be around.  Go figure.

-Mario


2007\02\03@010440 by Cedric Chang

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On 2007-Feb 02, at 19:48hrs PM, <RemoveMEpiclistspamTakeThisOuTmmendes.com>  
<piclistEraseMEspam.....mmendes.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I have not been able to verify this, so do take this with a grain of
salt.  It goes along the lines with the "has a gun" at the airport.

"bomb" in Portuguese is "bomba", and "air pump" as the ones you use to
fill up a soccer ball is also called a "bomba".  Back when that plane
crash happened in Brazil last year (the mid air collision between a
legacy and an airliner), I was discussing with my cousin about the
legality of the Brazilian authorities holding the American pilots in the
country, although free to roam around and not in jail, until the
investigation showed whether they were responsible or not for the
accident.  One of his replies where "why not? A few years back they put
two Brazilian young men in jail in California because they had an air
pump in their carry on and when it went through the x-ray machine they
were asked what it was.  When one of the boys said "a bomb" not knowing
that what he really meant to say was "an air pump" they were arrested,
tried and spent one year in jail for it."

So, if this is really true, and like I said, I was not able to verify it
because my google searches did not return anything about it, depending
on where you are, not only can you not scream "fire" in the theater, but
you can't say anything that may be interpreted as "fire" in the theater.
Any descent district attorney and judge would've scolded the boys for
what they said and maybe even given them some community service as
punishment, but the court decided that the boys did indeed mean to cause
an uproar at the airport because they were questioned about their carry
on belongings.

I'm all up for security everywhere, and do not understand why the US is
the only country I've been in the world where there are not military man
holding machine guns near by airport walkways.  Everywhere I've gone,
their presence seemed to make sense to me.  But for some reason, here in
the US people want security without those things that ensure security to
be around.  Go figure.

-Mario

Explain how military man with machine gun makes security.  I see many
military men with machine guns blown up in Iraq ( for instance )
-Cedric

2007\02\12@092113 by Alan B. Pearce

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> Except I think what he's doing is along the lines of "freedom of
> speech doesn't mean you can shout Fire ! in a theatre". Air travel is
> very safety- and terrorist- conscious and the last place you want
> bickering and a fist-fight is on a plane

<Very big laugh> I remember the bit on the TV program that used to air here
in the UK about life at Heathrow airport, with someone with a violin or
guitar case who jokingly said it had a machine gun or similar in it, and
wondered why they got hustled into a back room rather fast, and dealt with
by a bunch of cops in flack jackets holding real machine guns.

Seemed somewhat put out about it too, as I recall.

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