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'[OT] Banking: US vs Europe'
2005\11\16@202828 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Nov 16, 2005, at 11:02 AM, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

> When I get a bank transfer from a public person I get his bank number,
> as part of the transaction information. This is the normal practice in
> my country, and AFAIK in most of western europe...

Yes, I've noticed that there seems to be quite a difference between
europe and the US in this respect.  Along with a difference in the
frequency of use of direct transfers vs checks or credit cards.
I'm not sure I understand it; As someone pointed out, sending someone
a check gives them the same numbers (in the US), but we don't usually
worry about that.  What additional info gives someone in europe the
ability to withdraw vs deposit into accounts?

I think part of the issue is that in the US, it's very rare for there
to be personal transfers into or out of bank accounts - if someone is
going to withdraw funds directly from your account, they tend to be
a big institution rather than another individual.  The US tends to
be either cash oriented or credit oriented, with EFT not even on the
playing board.  most of the time, anyway.  Sort of.

A clear application for public key cryptography.  Sort of.  I wonder
why it hasn't caught on (aside from the keys generally being terribly
unwieldy for human use...)

BillW

2005\11\16@205453 by Padu

picon face
> On Nov 16, 2005, at 11:02 AM, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>
>> When I get a bank transfer from a public person I get his bank number,
>> as part of the transaction information. This is the normal practice in
>> my country, and AFAIK in most of western europe...

Common practice in Brazil too.

One think that I noticed when I moved to the US (5 years ago) is that there
are lots of small local banks here. In Brazil there are no local banks (that
I am aware of), only big banks such as Itau, Bradesco, HSBC, Sudameris, etc.

You pay all your bills (the ones that are not electronically paid) in the
bank (yeah, long lines). First month I was here, I took my utility bill to
pay in the bank and the teller looked at me with the biggest question mark
in her face: "what do you want me to do with this bill?" - I said "what? I
want to pay it." hehehe

Electronics Fund Transfer (DOC how it is called there) is common practice.
Fees are very low for EFT. There is no "ATM Withdraw" fee. When you see an
ATM machine, either you can withdraw money for free or you can't withdraw at
all (not "compatible" with your bank).

Because most of the banks are very big, internet banking is common practice,
and things that I see banks doing now here in the US, is done in Brazil
years ago (at least 5 years ago).

There are really a lot of investment products for you to choose, not only
the regular stock trade options.

Well, things that are different...

Padu

2005\11\16@215854 by Paul Hutchinson

picon face
I found this article interesting.

"What Europe can teach us about identity theft"
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Banking/FinancialPrivacy/P116528.asp

Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu On Behalf Of William Chops Westfield
> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 8:29 PM
>
> Yes, I've noticed that there seems to be quite a difference between
> europe and the US in this respect.  Along with a difference in the
<snip>

2005\11\17@020701 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> What additional info gives someone in europe the
> ability to withdraw vs deposit into accounts?

A signed permission from the deposit holder. There are one-time
permissions for a fixed amount (used much like you would use a cheque),
and continuous permissions (my largest components supplier has one from
me, which saves me the hassle of paying ecah separate bill, and he gives
me 2% discount because he will get all his bills payed in time). Both
types require a special contract between the withdrawer and the central
bank clearinghouse. Fraud from the withdrawer is taken rather serious by
the clearinghouse, and might end his contract. There is only one central
clearinhouse, so this would probably put the withdrawer out of business,
so he takes it seriously too.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\11\17@020701 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> >> When I get a bank transfer from a public person I get his
> bank number,
> >> as part of the transaction information. This is the normal
> practice in
> >> my country, and AFAIK in most of western europe...

> Common practice in Brazil too.

That's probably because Brazil was a Portugese colony, no an English
one.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\11\17@045037 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 11/17/05, Wouter van Ooijen <.....wouterKILLspamspam@spam@voti.nl> wrote:
> > >> When I get a bank transfer from a public person I get his
> > bank number,
> > >> as part of the transaction information. This is the normal
> > practice in
> > >> my country, and AFAIK in most of western europe...
>
> > Common practice in Brazil too.
>
> That's probably because Brazil was a Portugese colony, no an English
> one.

There was no much difference. In Brazil where fighting in different
wars portugheze catolics with spanish catolics in the attempt of
change the indigens religion into christianity. In English colonies
the wars where taken by the english catolics against english
protestants with the same final purpose.
On the whole soup, the wigilent eye of Pape was watching...

WARNING: this is not a religion email topic but a financial one (which
is the same thing...).
If some fights will born on this subject, the topics will be killed.

cheers,
Vasile

2005\11\17@060246 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I found this article interesting.
>
>"What Europe can teach us about identity theft"
>http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Banking/FinancialPrivacy/P116528.asp

Hmm, maybe it is true in mainland Europe, but it doesn't match my UK
experience.

I haven't had my identity stolen yet - but do make pretty sure that anything
with name and address info on it is shredded and burnt, not put out in the
rubbish. many of the identity theft problems come from people putting
unwanted or unsolicited applications straight into their rubbish, and then
"dumpster divers" go through the bins when put out for collection looking
for just such things.


He says "Credit card marketers do send out some direct-mail
solicitations, Iacobuzio said, but the volume is far less
than the deluge that stuffs -- and is often stolen from
-- Americans' mailboxes"

Well if it is far less, then I hate to think how much the Americans get. I
receive probably an average of one or two unsolicited credit/debit card
application forms each week, all with my name address etc pre-printed, and
all I have to do is sign and send back to get this marvellous offer. I take
the identifying stuff out and shred it, but you can imagine how easy it
would be for someone to intercept this, and change the address, sign it,
send it back pretending to be me. This is a major problem in the UK, and
people don't know it has happened until they start being refused credit
because they are deemed to be in default on cards they don't know about.

The incidence of unsolicited, but personally addressed, mail has dropped off
since the electoral office was forced to allow people to opt out of having
their name on the electoral roll being used for anything but electoral and
other purposes allowed under legislation. This was as a result of a court
case where the electoral commission was taken to court by someone who said
they had no option but to enrol, but this did not allow the electoral office
to distribute his name to all comers who wanted it for direct mail purposes.

2005\11\17@090929 by Paul Hutchinson

picon face
> -----Original Message-----
> From: piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu On Behalf Of Alan B. Pearce
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 6:03 AM
> >
> >"What Europe can teach us about identity theft"
> >http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Banking/FinancialPrivacy/P116528.asp
>
> Hmm, maybe it is true in mainland Europe, but it doesn't match my UK
> experience.

That's what paragraph two of the article says:
"The exception is the United Kingdom, where fraud experts estimate 100,000
people, or about 0.17% of the population, fell victim last year to account
hijacking, new-account fraud or other types of identity theft."

The article says that the rest of the EU is close to 0% and the USA is
around 3.4% :-(.

> I haven't had my identity stolen yet - but do make pretty sure
<snip>
>
> He says "Credit card marketers do send out some direct-mail
> solicitations, Iacobuzio said, but the volume is far less
> than the deluge that stuffs -- and is often stolen from
> -- Americans' mailboxes"
>
> Well if it is far less, then I hate to think how much the Americans get. I
> receive probably an average of one or two unsolicited credit/debit card
> application forms each week, all with my name address etc pre-printed, and

That figure is lower than my experience and that of my family and friends.
Unsolicited credit applications and pre-printed credit checks (spend them
like cash) seem to come 3 to 4 times per week. My reading of the article led
me to believe that the UK is excluded from the statements of good things.
It's the rest of the EU that they claim doesn't have as much trouble as the
USA and UK.

Paul

> all I have to do is sign and send back to get this marvellous
<snip>

2005\11\17@091415 by rosoftwarecontrol

flavicon
face
one thing for sure USA is at behind:
Withdraw cash in Europe, you can do it charge free
from any bank. In USA and Canada, you need
pay for different bank.





{Original Message removed}

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