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'[OT] 6 Engine Jetplane'
2005\11\22@015231 by Buehler, Martin

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I live in a region with a lot of air traffic (central europe).
usually, i see jetplanes with 2 or 4 engines, resulting in 2 or 4 vapour
trails (4 engines often seem to give only 2 trails when flying very
high).
two days ago, i've seen a very big jetplane, flying very low, giving 6
vapour trails - and yes, it had 6 engines.
i've never seen such a jetplane before.
what jetplanes do have 6 engines?
using google, i only found the an225 (as a classical jetplane with 6
engines), but there seems to exist only 1 plane of this type. are there
others?
thanx!
tino

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2005\11\22@022532 by Enrico Schuerrer

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As far as I know there are some russian (freight) jets (f.i. Iljuschin)
which have 8 jet engines, even some  Boeing and Douglas models having 3 jets
but never a model with 6 jets.

Regards
Enrico

{Original Message removed}

2005\11\22@023511 by Jinx

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> using google, i only found the an225 (as a classical jetplane
> with 6 engines), but there seems to exist only 1 plane of
> this type

However many AN225s there are, it/they get around. One's
been down to New Zealand at least once, and did a grand tour
of the city, so maybe it was the Antonov you saw. According
to Antonov, the AN225 is still in service and available for hire

http://www.antonov.com/products/air/transport/AN-225/index.xml

2005\11\22@054041 by Russell McMahon

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>> using google, i only found the an225 (as a classical jetplane
>> with 6 engines), but there seems to exist only 1 plane of
>> this type
>
> However many AN225s there are, it/they get around. One's
> been down to New Zealand at least once, and did a grand tour
> of the city, so maybe it was the Antonov you saw. According
> to Antonov, the AN225 is still in service and available for hire
>
> http://www.antonov.com/products/air/transport/AN-225/index.xml

A lament for the demise of the Soviet Union, with good reasons why,
and a comment on the AN225 (built to carry the Buran Space Shuttle).
FWIW the AN225, at 640 odd tons, is the largest man made object to
have ever left and returned to the earth's surface.

       www.geocities.com/jefferywinkler/sovietunion.html
&    http://www.geocities.com/jefferywinkler/sovietunion2.html


       RM

2005\11\22@074911 by olin piclist

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Buehler, Martin wrote:
> what jetplanes do have 6 engines?

B-52

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2005\11\22@080028 by olin piclist

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Buehler, Martin wrote:
> what jetplanes do have 6 engines?

Sorry, hit the wrong key which caused my previous message to be sent when I
was trying to edit it.  I started saying a B-52 had six engines, which of
course is wrong.  Technically it has 8 engines in 4 clusters of two each.
What I meant to say was that the 4 clusters of engines with extra pods
mounted near the wing tips can make it look like 6 "engines" from a
distance.  With the right atmospheric conditions, these pods can also cause
vapor trails.  They are caused by the sudden pressure changes of nearly
saturated air causing drops to condense when the pressure decreases, but not
evaporage immediately when the pressure goes back up.  So a B-52 can leave 6
vapor trails behind it under the right conditions.

Of course it depends a lot on what part of the world you are in.  A B-52 is
a likely answer if you're in North America, Western Europe, Diego Garcia,
South Korea, Afganistan, or Iraq.  Really unlikely if you're in central or
eastern Asia.  I think there were some Antonov designs that could leave 6
vapor trails that are better candidates for those regions.


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Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2005\11\22@080333 by Lee Jones

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>> what jetplanes do have 6 engines?

> B-52

No.  B-52's have 8 engines in 4 underwing pods.  Each engine
pair would probably merge and appear as 4 contrail streams.

B-47 (long retired) had 6 engines in 4 underwing pods.

                                               Lee Jones

2005\11\22@080502 by Jake Anderson

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there are many antinovs
theres just one thats "the biggest"
theres smaller ones on the same line

the B52 has 6 engines now i believe, it started with 8

leads on to

There's a story about the military pilot calling for a priority landing
because his single-engine jet fighter was running "a bit peaked."
Air Traffic Control told the fighter jock that he was number two, behind a
B-52 that had one engine shut down.
"Ah," the fighter pilot remarked, "The dreaded seven-engine approach."


> {Original Message removed}

2005\11\22@080558 by Alan B. Pearce

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>> what jetplanes do have 6 engines?
>
>B-52

Isn't that done as 6 pairs? I guess one wouldn't be able to tell looking at
a contrail though.

My guess would be the Anotonov, as someone else pointed out. That machine
gets everywhere, doing heavy or bulky lifts. The satellite program I am
currently involved in used it to take the satellite complete with all the
ground support equipment from Cannes to Kourou (well Cayenne actually, it
had to do the last 60 kilos by road).

2005\11\22@080704 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> > what jetplanes do have 6 engines?
> B-52

Maybe the B-52++++? Looks like 8 engines in 4 pairs to me, the outer
thingies are probably weapons pods, fuel things or radar etc.?
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/b-52_files/life-b52.jpg

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\11\22@081704 by Lee Jones

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> the B52 has 6 engines now i believe, it started with 8

B-52G models use 8 Pratt & Whitney J57-P-43WB turbojets with
11,200 lbs thrust (dry) or 13,750 lbs thrust (water injection).
Earlier models used other J57 variants from -1W, -19W, etc.

B-52H models use 8 Pratt & Whitney TF33-P-3 (or -103) turbofan
engines with 17,000 lbs thrust each.  The turbofan is more fuel
efficient.

But all B-52 models have always used 8 engines.

See Wright Patterson AFB's USAF museum site at:

   http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/bombers/b4/b4-72.htm

                                               Lee Jones

2005\11\22@135409 by Nate Duehr

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Jinx wrote:

> However many AN225s there are, it/they get around. One's
> been down to New Zealand at least once, and did a grand tour
> of the city, so maybe it was the Antonov you saw. According
> to Antonov, the AN225 is still in service and available for hire
>
> http://www.antonov.com/products/air/transport/AN-225/index.xml

There's a British company that rents them out.

Discovery Channel or History Channel over here in the U.S. had a
"World's largest aircraft" show recently, and the Antonov was on there.
 Big beast.

A cup of coffee, a free evening, and a copy of Jane's and I bet I could
find a few more six-engined aircraft.  ;-)

Nate

2005\11\22@140406 by gacrowell

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> www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/b-52_files/life-b52.jpg
>
> Wouter van Ooijen


& the last blurb I've seen about them was that there are fewer than 100
B52H models left flying (built in '60-61), but they expect some of those
to remain on duty until 2040.  freekin amazing.

GC

2005\11\22@141744 by gacrowell

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>
> But all B-52 models have always used 8 engines.
>
> See Wright Patterson AFB's USAF museum site at:
>
>     http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/bombers/b4/b4-72.htm

A 7-engine B-52:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/bombers/b4/b4-69.htm

GC

2005\11\22@170215 by Kevin

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On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 spam_OUTgacrowellTakeThisOuTspammicron.com wrote:

>
>
> > www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/b-52_files/life-b52.jpg
> >
> > Wouter van Ooijen
>
>
> & the last blurb I've seen about them was that there are fewer than 100
> B52H models left flying (built in '60-61), but they expect some of those
> to remain on duty until 2040.  freekin amazing.
>
> GC

Yes, not many (any) planes have a useful service time of
=~ 100 years.

2005\11\22@181322 by Howard Winter

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Olin,

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:01:20 -0500, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> Buehler, Martin wrote:
> > what jetplanes do have 6 engines?
>
> Sorry, hit the wrong key which caused my previous message to be sent when I
> was trying to edit it.

I was going to correct you on that, but decided to read ahead first, and I see that the World and his dog have
aready done so! :-)

>  I started saying a B-52 had six engines, which of
> course is wrong.  Technically it has 8 engines in 4 clusters of two each.
> What I meant to say was that the 4 clusters of engines with extra pods
> mounted near the wing tips can make it look like 6 "engines" from a
> distance.  

Actually they can have several mountings for weapons and other external cargo, so to the untrained eye there
can seem to be a ridiculous number of engines!

> With the right atmospheric conditions, these pods can also cause
> vapor trails.  They are caused by the sudden pressure changes of nearly
> saturated air causing drops to condense when the pressure decreases, but not
> evaporage immediately when the pressure goes back up.  So a B-52 can leave 6
> vapor trails behind it under the right conditions.

But more often than that they seem to seperate out into 4 groups of 2 trails, exactly as the engines are
arranged.

This brings to mind one of the two most memorable air traffic message I've had - I was flying a light aircraft
across the Military Air Traffic Zone (MATZ) around RAF Upper Heyford.  The MATZ controller called me with
"...traffic in your 12 o'clock, 3.5 miles, same level, a B-52" !  :-)  At that point it started a turn to the
right, and I saw its plan-form view, instantly recognisable, and even at that distance it looked huge!  
Interesting, though, that I hadn't noticed it square-on view (from behind), and I don't think it was because
my scan wasn't very good - there really isn't much to see at that angle.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\11\22@182908 by Howard Winter

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Russell,

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 23:35:32 +1300, Russell McMahon wrote:

> > However many AN225s there are, it/they get around.

I think you'll find there is only one.  I seem to remember at an air show a number of years ago, someone
unwisely left a van parked beyond the end of the main runway, a couple of hundred yards from the threshold.  
When the AN-225 opened up its engines at the start of its take-off run, it blew the van over, a couple of
complete rolls, I believe!  :-)

> > One's been down to New Zealand at least once, and did a grand tour
> > of the city, so maybe it was the Antonov you saw. According
> > to Antonov, the AN225 is still in service and available for hire

Indeed - I've seen "Mriya" at Frankfurt - even on the far side of the field it looked enormous.  There are all
sorts of statistics about it, such as that the paint on it weighs about two tonnes, it can carry six Greyhound
busses at once, and the wasted space in the tailcone has a greater volume than the cargo hold of a 747...

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2005\11\23@032056 by Russell McMahon

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> Russell McMahon wrote:
>
>> > However many AN225s there are, it/they get around.

Nope - that was Jinx that said that.

2005\11\23@085100 by Mike Hord

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> This brings to mind one of the two most memorable
> air traffic message I've had - I was flying a light aircraft
> across the Military Air Traffic Zone (MATZ) around RAF
> Upper Heyford.  The MATZ controller called me with
> "...traffic in your 12 o'clock, 3.5 miles, same level, a
> B-52" !  :-)  At that point it started a turn to the
> right, and I saw its plan-form view, instantly recognisable,
> and even at that distance it looked huge!
> Interesting, though, that I hadn't noticed it square-on
> view (from behind), and I don't think it was because
> my scan wasn't very good - there really isn't much to
> see at that angle.

As a kid I lived near Tinker AFB in Oklahoma.  I seem
to recall a LOT of B-52 traffic overhead.

A few months ago I was in Chicago for Air/Sea Day
(I think that's what it's called; the Navy and Air
Force fly their prettiest planes overhead as a
recruiting thing) and I have a pretty good pic of a
B-52 damn near knife edge quite low over Navy
Pier, taken from the Shedd Aquarium.

Mike H.

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