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'[OT] 240V in USA, TV in GB [way, way OT]'
1998\07\23@185002 by paulb

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Nigel Goodwin wrote:

> Considering they have now added a 5th channel

 Let's check this.  You mean GB has only recently "upgraded" to five
total TV channel allocations as against, say, here where we have twelve
VHF channels and dozens on UHF?

 (OK, I know we only have five "networks" anyway!)

--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1998\07\23@200135 by Timothy D. Gray

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and let's add the fact that we are going to change to HDTV with another
wierd set of rules.. I say let's get with GB! turn your tv on it's side
and call it done! here in the states we have usually 8-10 channels of
broadcast crap and another 600 on cable not worth watching. I usually end
up watching the BBC or old BBC re-runs for entertainment. now as a wierd
topic for this.. is it possible for a PIC to intercept the SYNC out of a
video signal and re-generate it? or should I stick with standard ic's for
doing this?


On Fri, 24 Jul 1998, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1998\07\24@084032 by Peter L. Peres

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On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Timothy D. Gray wrote:

> and let's add the fact that we are going to change to HDTV with another
> wierd set of rules.. I say let's get with GB! turn your tv on it's side
> and call it done! here in the states we have usually 8-10 channels of
> broadcast crap and another 600 on cable not worth watching. I usually end
> up watching the BBC or old BBC re-runs for entertainment. now as a wierd
> topic for this.. is it possible for a PIC to intercept the SYNC out of a
> video signal and re-generate it? or should I stick with standard ic's for
> doing this?

You would be surprised if you knew how many small pay-tv systems use PICs
for security. The PIC can and will do that, but making the PLL work right
to remove H jitter from the output signal is not for beginners. For 1-offs
stick with a 4046 for the PLL and do the rest with the PIC ;)

Peter

1998\07\24@093345 by Andy Kunz

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>video signal and re-generate it? or should I stick with standard ic's for
>doing this?

Yes, not a problem.

best to use a multiple of the dot clock frequency, or very high frequency
PIC to grab it.

You will probably want want a delay line as well, because in regenerating
it things will get skewed.

Andy


==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\07\24@134913 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <spam_OUT35B7BD7E.45FCTakeThisOuTspammidcoast.com.au>, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC
<.....paulbKILLspamspam@spam@MIDCOAST.COM.AU> writes
>Nigel Goodwin wrote:
>
>> Considering they have now added a 5th channel
>
>  Let's check this.  You mean GB has only recently "upgraded" to five
>total TV channel allocations as against, say, here where we have twelve
>VHF channels and dozens on UHF?
>
>  (OK, I know we only have five "networks" anyway!)

Yes, that's correct, there are only 5 terrestrial channels in the UK:-

BBC1
ITV
BBC2
Channel 4
Channel 5

(The last two have particularly clever names!).

Channel 5 also only has partial coverage, due to lack of available
channels it isn't possible to give as wide a coverage as the previous 4
channels. Basically they have just utilised the large main transmitters,
and relays that feed large population centers.

Don't forget, Great Britain is a small country, it isn't possible to get
more than the existing 4.5 channels in the available UHF channel space
without causing interference to lots of viewers.

I presume to use 12 VHF and dozens of UHF transmitters there must be
large areas that don't have coverage, otherwise they would be lots of
places where two transmitters on the same channel would cause too much
interference with each other to provide viewable signals.
--

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
       | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : nigelgspamKILLspamlpilsley.demon.co.uk     |
       | Lower Pilsley   | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.demon.co.uk |
       | Chesterfield    |                                            |
       | England         |                                            |
       \--------------------------------------------------------------/

1998\07\24@150455 by Timothy D. Gray

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Ahh! I'm trying to seperate the H&V sync to drive a camcorder viewfinder
from a standard NTSC signal, while trying to keep the parts count down.
thanks for the 4046 tip, this is still easier than the old video
processing chips.

> You would be surprised if you knew how many small pay-tv systems use PICs
> for security. The PIC can and will do that, but making the PLL work right
> to remove H jitter from the output signal is not for beginners. For 1-offs
> stick with a 4046 for the PLL and do the rest with the PIC ;)
>
> Peter
>

1998\07\24@151323 by Andy Kunz

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>I presume to use 12 VHF and dozens of UHF transmitters there must be
>large areas that don't have coverage, otherwise they would be lots of
>places where two transmitters on the same channel would cause too much
>interference with each other to provide viewable signals.

There are usually only 6-8 VHF channels available to any one area, and the
transmitters are (most of the time) kept far enough apart so as to avoid
one locale receiving two signals, although atmospheric conditions and hills
sometimes _do_ permit this.

Yes, America is over-saturated with TV signals.

Andy


==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\07\24@151529 by Andy Kunz

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At 03:02 PM 7/24/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Ahh! I'm trying to seperate the H&V sync to drive a camcorder viewfinder
>from a standard NTSC signal, while trying to keep the parts count down.
>thanks for the 4046 tip, this is still easier than the old video
>processing chips.

Elantec, Phillips, and others make great sync separators real cheap with
low externals count.

Andy


==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\07\24@155213 by paulb
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Nigel Goodwin wrote:

> Don't forget, Great Britain is a small country, it isn't possible to
> get more than the existing 4.5 channels in the available UHF channel
> space without causing interference to lots of viewers.

 I'm still puzzled.  A Channel is a frequency allocation, I am *not*
talking of programs or networks.  If GB is only using five UHF frequency
allocations, what on *earth* are they doing with the remainder of the
spectrum?

 I suppose in a country where they license *receivers*, absolutely
anything is possible!
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1998\07\24@163118 by Peter L. Peres

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On Sat, 25 Jul 1998, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote:

> Nigel Goodwin wrote:
>
> > Don't forget, Great Britain is a small country, it isn't possible to
> > get more than the existing 4.5 channels in the available UHF channel
> > space without causing interference to lots of viewers.
>
>   I'm still puzzled.  A Channel is a frequency allocation, I am *not*
> talking of programs or networks.  If GB is only using five UHF frequency
> allocations, what on *earth* are they doing with the remainder of the
> spectrum?

in just about every country that has a FCC equivalent, and is large
enough, UHF channels are allopcated on a 'tiling' basis, not unlike
cellular frequency slots, and for the same reason. Remember the 4-color
map problem ? It works the same, but you can't have adjacent channels or
harmonics in a tile, and the nearest tile with adjacents and/or harmonics
must be 2 away or so, more if there is diffraction on hills etc. You run
out of UHF channels very fast that way.

>   I suppose in a country where they license *receivers*, absolutely
> anything is possible!

UK is not the only place. Here too. Yearly license, for each receiver in
theory, and they have an ad running twice *every* evening at top rating
hours reminding everyone to pay their dues or else...

Ah, and you have to pay, even if only cable, and we have only TWO
channels. Also, the yearly dies are about equivalent to four month's cable
fees, which you pay too of course. So be happy wherever you are.

Peter

PS: There used to be a sig here that quoted David Frost saying (wait, I'm
getting it from the Sun):

"The creed of Inland Revenue is simple: 'If we can bring one little smile to one
little face today - then somebody's screwed up somewhere' - David Frost

(Note: The above stands valid in all countries until proven wrong)

1998\07\24@164332 by Timothy D. Gray

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This is a strong Wake up call indeed! I had completely forgotten about
that fact. Makes me glad that the reciever police cant arrest me for all
my recievers.. Just the NSA locking you up for having a touchtone keypad
in one room and a crystal osc. in another room. Although GB has users
license their recievers, here in the states we have the NSA terrorist
group chasing the residents.(NSA: National Security Administration) it is
a sad fact that my PIC programmer can be construed as an "illegal" device
if they think it would/could be used for ill-gotten gains.


{Quote hidden}

ne
> little face today - then somebody's screwed up somewhere' - David Frost
>
> (Note: The above stands valid in all countries until proven wrong)
>

1998\07\24@175200 by Peter L. Peres

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On Fri, 24 Jul 1998, Timothy D. Gray wrote:

> This is a strong Wake up call indeed! I had completely forgotten about
> that fact. Makes me glad that the reciever police cant arrest me for all
> my recievers.. Just the NSA locking you up for having a touchtone keypad
> in one room and a crystal osc. in another room.

What's the connection between these 2 items ?! Both can be used to down
black helicopters ? <g>

> Although GB has users license their recievers, here in the states we
> have the NSA terrorist group chasing the residents.(NSA: National
> Security Administration) it is a sad fact that my PIC programmer can be
> construed as an "illegal" device if they think it would/could be used
> for ill-gotten gains.

Huh ?

In fact, I suspect that the laws here are formulated loosely, such that
owning or not owning any semiconductor device, or vacuum device, can land
one in jail for life + 100 years, with the help of one of those slick
Jewish lawyers who are so famous worldwide, paid by the government (we
manufacture them locally). It does not happen often, though.

Again, be happy for being where you are, wherever that is.

Anyway, I'm not into politics at all, so I don't really care. I also don't
watch TV, I have too many computer monitors to watch and prefer a book
instead anyway when it comes to it (I rip out the ad pages beforehead ;).

Peter

1998\07\25@133058 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <.....35B8E54A.7C24KILLspamspam.....midcoast.com.au>, Paul B. Webster VK2BZC
<EraseMEpaulbspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMIDCOAST.COM.AU> writes
>Nigel Goodwin wrote:
>
>> Don't forget, Great Britain is a small country, it isn't possible to
>> get more than the existing 4.5 channels in the available UHF channel
>> space without causing interference to lots of viewers.
>
>  I'm still puzzled.  A Channel is a frequency allocation, I am *not*
>talking of programs or networks.  If GB is only using five UHF frequency
>allocations, what on *earth* are they doing with the remainder of the
>spectrum?

When you mentioned channels, I presumed you meant ones you could
actually receive, if you are talking possible channels there are 49 in
the UK, channels 21 - 69 on UHF.

It's quite simple why we only get 5 channels, the UK is quite hilly, and
there are many thousands of transmitters to give good coverage. There
are also many places where these transmitters overlap, so the frequency
allocations need very careful planning to avoid problems (doesn't always
work!).

Although there are only 5 channels, the ITV companies are regional, so
you get different programming in different parts of the country. I live
on a reasonable hill, and can get good pictures from 2 different ITV
regions. Also BBC do regional local news broadcasts, although most of
the other programming is identical.
--

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
       | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : nigelgspamspam_OUTlpilsley.demon.co.uk     |
       | Lower Pilsley   | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.demon.co.uk |
       | Chesterfield    |                                            |
       | England         |                                            |
       \--------------------------------------------------------------/

1998\07\25@133255 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <@spam@000C4529.CE21215KILLspamspamconsumersgas.com>, Martin Green <Martin_Gre
KILLspamenKILLspamspamCONSUMERSGAS.COM> writes
>Nigel Goodwin opined:
>     I presume to use 12 VHF and dozens of UHF transmitters there must
>     be large areas that don't have coverage, otherwise they would be
>     lots of places where two transmitters on the same channel would
>     cause too much interference with each other to provide viewable
>     signals.
>
>No, Nigel, actually with 12 VHF channels, not to mention channels 15 to 83
>on UHF, the FCC (and CRTC in Canada) ensure that no two same frequency
>transmitters are licensed within interference range. In practice, in a few
>very dense metropolitan areas, such a NYC and Toronto-Niagara Falls in
>Canada, on days (usually nights) of unusually high propogation there can
>sometimes be a bit of a problem with this "co-channel" interference, which
>is one of the reasons that cable TV took off big-time in the metro areas
>early on, even though you would have expected only the rural regions to
>need cable.

Channels 15 - 83 is interesting, UHF over here is only 21 - 69. As for
expecting cable in rural areas, the situation as I see it is exactly the
opposite - the cable companies are only interested in cabling areas with
large population densities.

At the moment in the UK cable is slowly spreading, but a couple of years
ago the franchise for Matlock (where I work!) was up for offers. I
suppose the population is 15,000 - 20,000, but there were no bids made!.

I live in a small ex-coal mining village, probably a few hundred people,
what chance do you think we have :-).

BTW, there's been an American film crew here this last week, making a
program about our local medium Rita Rodgers. It's caused great amusement
as they went down the hill and filmed upwards, and then up the hill and
filmed down :-).
--

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
       | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : RemoveMEnigelgTakeThisOuTspamlpilsley.demon.co.uk     |
       | Lower Pilsley   | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.demon.co.uk |
       | Chesterfield    |                                            |
       | England         |                                            |
       \--------------------------------------------------------------/

1998\07\25@145545 by Eric Smith

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Nigel Goodwin <spamBeGonenigelgspamBeGonespamLPILSLEY.DEMON.CO.UK> wrote:
> Channels 15 - 83 is interesting, UHF over here is only 21 - 69.

In the US, we used to have VHF channels 2 - 13, and UHF 14 - 83.  However,
the FCC never allocated 70 - 83, so they were reallocated to provide the
800 MHz cellular telephone band.

Rather than make any technical effort to design the cellular system to be safe
from eavesdropping, over here we have cleverly legislated it to be secure
(part of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986).  Therefore if you
have old televisions with continuous tuning of UHF (which can receive cellular
frequencies), it is now illegal to sell them.

> At the moment in the UK cable is slowly spreading, but a couple of years
> ago the franchise for Matlock (where I work!) was up for offers. I
> suppose the population is 15,000 - 20,000, but there were no bids made!.

Strange.  Over here Matlock was pretty popular with the older crowd; it's
even been mentioned on the Simpsons :-)

1998\07\25@145659 by Herbert Graf

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{Quote hidden}

       Actually to nitpick, UHF is from channels 14-83, although most TVs don't
go
beyond channel 69, originally UHF only went up to 69, but then they expanded
it to include up to 83, however over the air there is alot of interference
at these higher stations, at least here in Canada. TTYL

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