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'[OT] - How many computers we own.'
2003\12\11@205339 by john chung

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My list of stuff.....

1) 486 MHz x1 Win 3.1
2) 100 MHz Pentium x1 FreeBSD 4.5
3) 120 MHz Pentium x1 FreeBSD 4.5
4) 300 MHz Pentium  II x1 FreeBSD 4.5
5) 500 MHz Celeron x1 Win95
6) 1GHz Pentium III x1   Win2k

in short  6 machines. Not allowed to keep anymore at home........ Only
using 4,5,6 currently.
Using a KVM switch for 5,6 ! Simply lovely. Hopefully to upgrade my new
system soon. 3GHz
with 875 mobo and 1 GB of RAM.

How about you?

John

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2003\12\11@210621 by NaB25J

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1.) Athlon XP 2100+, Win 2000 (my main computer, built from parts)
2.) Duron 850, Mandrake Linux (mine, just for playing with)
3.) Pentium I 133 Mhz, No O/S right now (our family's first PC, an AST from 1996, not in use)
4.) Pentium I MMX 233 in parts (the second PC, 1997, not in use)
5.) Athlon 450 Mhz, Win 95 (on the network as a printer server)
6.) Duron 1.3 Ghz (I think), Win XP (not in use)
7.) Athlon XP 2400+, Win XP (eMachines M5310 laptop)
8.) Athlon XP 2800+, Win XP (eMachines, dad's computer)
9.) Athlon XP 2800+, Win XP (eMachines, mom's work computer)
10.) AT clone from the early-mid 1980's. (not in use)

All the computers that are in use are up on the network consisting of 2 router/switches (1 with wireless capability, for the laptop), with the WAN being a cable modem.

Good God. How did we get so many computers in this house? It's ridiculous. Yet I love it. I'm not proud....

-Tony




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2003\12\11@210756 by Liam O'Hagan

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well I just gave away a P3 700, a P3 500 and a P3 450 for christmas presents
to various family members, and have only got a P3 850 for myself.

I have 7 other Pentium 90-200's lying around to cannabalise for further
christmas presents for family members (older people who don't need fast PCs)

Makes for a fun christmas

> {Original Message removed}

2003\12\11@213534 by Bill Couture

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On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, john chung wrote:

> My list of stuff.....
>
> 1) 486 MHz x1 Win 3.1
> 2) 100 MHz Pentium x1 FreeBSD 4.5
> 3) 120 MHz Pentium x1 FreeBSD 4.5
> 4) 300 MHz Pentium  II x1 FreeBSD 4.5
> 5) 500 MHz Celeron x1 Win95
> 6) 1GHz Pentium III x1   Win2k
>
> in short  6 machines. Not allowed to keep anymore at home........ Only
> using 4,5,6 currently.

I'm also at 6:

1) Athlon XP1600 running Win98SE, wife's email/websurfing machine
2) Athlon 1.3Ghz (older model Athlon) running Win98SE, my email/websurfing
  /programming/whatnot machine
3) Athlon XP1700 running Win2K Pro, video editing/burning
4) PII 233Mhz running Red Hat 6.2, webserver (to be retired)
5) Celeron 2.0Ghz, Debian 3.0, will be new webserver/email/DNS when I
  finish setting it up
6) Celeron 300, running Win95.  This is my "dead media" machine, were I'm
  slowly archiving the contents of old floppies (5.25" 160K on up...) and
  such.  Will be retired when I run out of readable old media.

2, 3, 4, and 5 are on a video switch.  I swap cables for #6.

Yah, I'm a geek...

Bill

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2003\12\11@214153 by D Yates

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I just have one, and it does everything I've ever wanted.  But hey, I
understand how some of you older guys still have the idea stuck in your head
that a good computer absolutely positively has to fill up at least one room
;)  And I can't deny anyone the bragging rights of 10 computers - that is
awesome.

1.)  p3, 800 mhz winxp 1024 ram


{Original Message removed}

2003\12\11@214814 by Jean-Pierre Poulin

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I used to be a big fan of lots of computers, but I've gone toward another excess -> Lots of monitors plugged to one
powerful machine!

I have:
- Main development: Dual Athlon 2.5 / SCSI raid drives / Triple 21" monitors hooked up to a Matrox Parhelia.  (Best $500
I ever spent on a video card!)
- 2nd computer: Athlon 2.5
- 3rd computer: Dell 8000 laptop

Anything more than three, and you constantly waste time maintaining them!  Far better to have *everything* on one
powerful machine!

 JP

{Original Message removed}

2003\12\11@221344 by Richard.Prosser

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OK here's my List
1. Origonal IBM PC - from memory no hard drive - working (on 5.25 floppies)
but not used
2. Origonal IBM XT with a 20Meg (?) drive.  working but not used
3. HP9828(?) desktop. Working but tapes drives need attention (cassette
tapes). Includes a thermal printer & IO & RS232 cards as well as extra
memory and a math pack
4. Pentium 133 - works but missing hard drive at the moment (lent to my
sister in law)
5. Celeron 2Gig PC running XP - The home PC. 40Gig Hard drive has "issues"
& will be replaced after the Xmas rush.
6  Various "AT clones" in disrepair - mostly stripped for parts.
7. Atari 400?. With 40Meg Drive. Works but I haven't got a mouse or any
sort of instructions wrt the operating system commands etc. (CPM??) Monitor
very useful for fixing VCRs etc.
8. 486/66 Win98 - works slowly if required. Fully doublespaced and overfull
disks - not used except to recover old utilities & games etc

And this is AFTER a cleanout!

Richard P




On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, john chung wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I'm also at 6:

1) Athlon XP1600 running Win98SE, wife's email/websurfing machine
2) Athlon 1.3Ghz (older model Athlon) running Win98SE, my email/websurfing
  /programming/whatnot machine
3) Athlon XP1700 running Win2K Pro, video editing/burning
4) PII 233Mhz running Red Hat 6.2, webserver (to be retired)
5) Celeron 2.0Ghz, Debian 3.0, will be new webserver/email/DNS when I
  finish setting it up
6) Celeron 300, running Win95.  This is my "dead media" machine, were I'm
  slowly archiving the contents of old floppies (5.25" 160K on up...) and
  such.  Will be retired when I run out of readable old media.

2, 3, 4, and 5 are on a video switch.  I swap cables for #6.

Yah, I'm a geek...

Bill

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2003\12\11@221758 by Josh Koffman

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Well, I have my computers spread over two provinces (Canada) and one
State (USA). But, where I am at the moment, I have:
1. Gateway Celeron500 win98 laptop - my main machine
2. Dell PIII Inspiron win98 laptop - kind of a backup machine
3. Dell PIII500 Latitude win2K laptop - my new secondary machine
4. Toshiba P166 Libretto win98 - my uber portable machine :)
5. Noname P233 Linux - web and mail server for my domain
6. Custom made case with Industrial SBC Celeron466 win 2k - controls my
room lighting :)
7. Old IBM industrial case with Industrial SBC Celeron 466 - backup for
6
8. Noname P233 - unused
9. IBM Ambra Cyrix 5x86 - unused
10. Compaq 486 - was what served my domain before #5 - now unused
11. Hitachi p133 win95 laptop - former main machine, now mostly unused
12. Magitronic laptop - not too happy, won't boot reliably, unused

Everything is run off a 24 port 3com Superstack II dual speed hub, with
a wireless access point for when I need freedom to roam. I also have two
printers (an HP Deskjet 1120C widecarriage inkjet, and an HP Laserjet
4P) with print servers that also live off the network. As I start to
work more with embedded ethernet, I plan on setting up a parallel
network for testing that can be connected to the main network when I
need internet access on those machines. I also have a PocketPC that
connects wirelessly, and let's not even talk about the Palms (about 3
working, 1 broken, mainly used for control of other things). I have a
20" a 17" and a 15" monitor, all with KVMs to allow access to all
machines (I run dual monitors on most of the laptops).

And all this in a room about 15' by 10'.

It's a little crowded...I built stands, so most things are stacked, for
example, monitors on top of laptops.

Oh yeah, I know I'm a geek.

Josh
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2003\12\11@223247 by Jim Korman

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john chung wrote:

> My list of stuff.....
>
> <snip>
> in short  6 machines. Not allowed to keep anymore at home........ Only
> using 4,5,6 currently.
> Using a KVM switch for 5,6 ! Simply lovely. Hopefully to upgrade my new
> system soon. 3GHz
> with 875 mobo and 1 GB of RAM.
>
> How about you?
>
> John

1.5G P4, 512M WinXp (Mine)
700M P3 Laptop WinME (Mine)
1.0G P3 WinXp(Hers)
(450M P3)x2 for the kids (Got these cheap!! at CompUSA!)
1.0G Anthlon Mandrake 9.0
a P133 SBC I use to hook up to "STUFF", If it dies, I don't cry!
Z8Encore eval board I'm playing with
and at the trailing edge of technology..............

Tandy Model 4P with 128K ram (CP/M 2.2 and TRSDOS 6)
purchased the second week of December 1983! The Radio Shack I kept
in business gave me $400 for my Model III, I had to come up with the
other $1400! But I was in heaven when I got that machine.

Jim

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2003\12\11@223248 by John J. McDonough

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OK, I gotta join in ...

1) 2.4G P4 - Windows XP. Arguably the "main machine", but mostly used for
IRC and logging
2) 800 MHz IBM T21 laptop - this is the one that gets used the most - XP
3) 700 MHz Duron - wife's - Win98oe
4) 700 MHz Via chipset - Red hat 7.2 - firewall
5) 150 MHz P-Pro (!) RH7 - database & file server
6) 75 MHz IBM 701 CS, W95  kind of dormant at the moment
7) IBM 730T looking for a project
8) IBM Original AT - collecting dust
9) OSI Challenger II - UCSD Pascal on 8" floppies!
10) Homebrew 8008 with 128 bytes, I/O complement 8 LEDs and 8 switches

72/73 de WB8RCR    http://www.qsl.net/wb8rcr
didileydadidah     QRP-L #1446 Code Warriors #35

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2003\12\11@232133 by William Chops Westfield

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On Thursday, Dec 11, 2003, at 17:58 US/Pacific, john chung wrote:

> in short  6 machines.

What a wimp.  You just don't have access to the right trash cans.
Counting the laptop from work, we have 7 machines that are used
regularly, another 5 that were recently used, and perhaps a dozen
dumpster-picks and ancient machines kept for possible embedded
projects and/or nostalgia.  The oldest machine is a 10MHz 80286
PC/AT clone with 40M hard disk from ~1987...

Interestingly, I'm finding the mid-range machines (like the 90MHz
pentium) less interesting than the older boxes (386sx based, or
the mac IIcis, for instance.)  I think it's a packaging issue; once
your big desktop system is old, it's pretty unattractive, while
the more compact systems still attractive for those "possible
embedded uses"

BillW

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2003\12\11@232959 by Neil Cherry

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William Chops Westfield wrote:
> On Thursday, Dec 11, 2003, at 17:58 US/Pacific, john chung wrote:
>
>> in short  6 machines.
>
>
> What a wimp.  You just don't have access to the right trash cans.

At work I am the collector of all that is Ancient and I'd wish they'd
stop giving me more machines. At home things are a little more sane.
First We've stoop counting, The oldest is my Z80 starter kit, then
my first computer the Atari 800XL, then the Vaxen, etc, etc, etc.
I'm running 4 at my desktop now (KVM). I have lots of uControllers
(8051's, EZ80's, AVR, and of course PIC's ;-).

Oh I did turn down an AT&T 3B15 from Princeton U. I don't need the
heat that bad. :-)

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2003\12\11@234658 by Herbert Graf

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> My list of stuff.....
>
> 1) 486 MHz x1 Win 3.1
> 2) 100 MHz Pentium x1 FreeBSD 4.5
> 3) 120 MHz Pentium x1 FreeBSD 4.5
> 4) 300 MHz Pentium  II x1 FreeBSD 4.5
> 5) 500 MHz Celeron x1 Win95
> 6) 1GHz Pentium III x1   Win2k
>
> in short  6 machines. Not allowed to keep anymore at home........ Only
> using 4,5,6 currently.
> Using a KVM switch for 5,6 ! Simply lovely. Hopefully to upgrade my new
> system soon. 3GHz
> with 875 mobo and 1 GB of RAM.
>
> How about you?

       Hehe, the number varies, at the moment, the systems that are actually used
(i.e. powered on and connected to my network, and ignoring lots of bits and
pieces of other systems lying around):

1) AMD1200 Win2k/Redhat 9.0 dual boot - main machine
2) P233MMX - Redhat 9.0 - main server (file, web, etc.)
3) P100 - Redhat 9.0 - secondary server (mostly web devel)
4) 486SLC2 66 - Win95 - house server, third web server
5) P200MMX Laptop - WinMe - when I'm on the road and need more then my PDA,
at home it's my printer server
6) PII-366 Laptop - when my brother is on the road, or when the P200 is on
the road the printer server
7) P200MMX - Win95 - Car MP3 player

As I said, the number varies, I came VERY close to getting another PC a few
days ago (very special deal with Dell through my ISP) but I just couldn't
give myself enough reason to get it.

I'm currently waiting on an upgrade of my AMD1200, once PCI Express comes
out I'll be upgrading (and converting the AMD to an X server). TTYL

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2003\12\11@234907 by Herbert Graf

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> I'm also at 6:
>
> 1) Athlon XP1600 running Win98SE, wife's email/websurfing machine
> 2) Athlon 1.3Ghz (older model Athlon) running Win98SE, my email/websurfing
>    /programming/whatnot machine
> 3) Athlon XP1700 running Win2K Pro, video editing/burning
> 4) PII 233Mhz running Red Hat 6.2, webserver (to be retired)
> 5) Celeron 2.0Ghz, Debian 3.0, will be new webserver/email/DNS when I
>    finish setting it up
> 6) Celeron 300, running Win95.  This is my "dead media" machine, were I'm
>    slowly archiving the contents of old floppies (5.25" 160K on up...) and
>    such.  Will be retired when I run out of readable old media.
>
> 2, 3, 4, and 5 are on a video switch.  I swap cables for #6.

       Every consider VNC? I don't even own a KVM switch, I do everything over the
network from my main machine, either doing it through ssh/X (with a Linux
machine) or just VNC (with windows and linux machines). TTYL

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2003\12\11@234909 by Herbert Graf

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> I used to be a big fan of lots of computers, but I've gone toward
> another excess -> Lots of monitors plugged to one
> powerful machine!
>
> I have:
> - Main development: Dual Athlon 2.5 / SCSI raid drives / Triple
> 21" monitors hooked up to a Matrox Parhelia.  (Best $500
> I ever spent on a video card!)
> - 2nd computer: Athlon 2.5
> - 3rd computer: Dell 8000 laptop
>
> Anything more than three, and you constantly waste time
> maintaining them!

       Go Linux. Run the update program once a week and you'll be fine. TTYL

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2003\12\12@003959 by Robert Rolf

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John chung wrote:
> How about you?

What I've seen so far is kinda boring. I've been collecting junked
computers for too many decades I guess.

PC type machines, way over 30. Most still work. I
try to keep one of each generation in a 'safe' place. Wife is not
amused. Stuff may not be safe for too much longer either.

Original IBM PC. Got one.
Original IBM AT.  ditto
Original Altair. Yep, got two.
Imsai CP/M, yep.
CP/M machines. Too many
etc. etc. etc.

Original Lisa.
Original MAC, Mac 512, etc.

PDP 11/05, Lots
PDP 11/10
PDP 11/20
PDP 11/34A
PDP 11/40
PDP 11/45

PDP 8/I
PDP 8/S
PDP 8/E
PDP 8


Vax 11/780,
LSI 11/70
LSI 11/23
and lots and lots of other DEC stuff (tape drives, disk drive (RK05, RK02...).

My favourite. A Freiden Scientific calculator cira 1963.
Uses a vector based CRT display to give you 16 digits x 4 row visible stack
(RPN mode) and magnorestrictive memory delay line for display refresh
and operations (about 100' worth). All germanium TI transisors & diodes.
The ALU is 2 bits wide (result and carry), and operates
by doing serial addition with a shift register that captures the circulating
data and modifies it on the fly. I see it as an 'embedded' computer.

I trashed a Freiden electromechanical 'computer' cira 1960, a few years ago.
Think adding machine with macro capability. Very noisy while chugging out
the square root of 2 and some of the gears were sticking/stripped.

So who's got an IBM system 370 in their basement? Burrows? Sperry?
Control data? other mini's?

Hello. My name is Robert, and I am a packaholic....
Garage? That's not a garage. That's my warehouse...

R

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2003\12\12@010323 by Neil Cherry

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Robert Rolf wrote:
> John chung wrote:
>
>>How about you?

> What I've seen so far is kinda boring. I've been collecting junked
> computers for too many decades I guess.

> Original IBM PC. Got one.
> Original IBM AT.  ditto

I'm good here.
> Original Altair. Yep, got two.
> Imsai CP/M, yep.
> CP/M machines. Too many

An ATR8000 (close but not cigar, on my part)
>
> Original Lisa.
> Original MAC, Mac 512, etc.

Various MAC's, no Lisa

{Quote hidden}

Well, I just got my butt kicked. ;-) Vax 3300 (I had 2 3400's but they
are completely dead, lights on but no one is home).

> So who's got an IBM system 370 in their basement? Burrows? Sperry?
> Control data? other mini's?

I've got a 3B2 300, not even close, but it is multi user (but so is
my Sardis ST2900 6809 OS9 LI).

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2003\12\12@011150 by William Chops Westfield

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On Thursday, Dec 11, 2003, at 21:36 US/Pacific, Robert Rolf wrote:

> and lots and lots of other DEC stuff (tape drives, disk drive (RK05,
> RK02...).
>
You don't happen to have a working DECTape drive, do you?

BillW

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2003\12\12@013303 by Walter Banks

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> How about you?
>
> John

Coleco ADAM   S/N 2

S/N 1 went through a crusher

w..

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2003\12\12@020235 by Jake Anderson

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6
1) some kind of AMD type thing ~500mhz perhaps? win2k server
(router/webserver/mysql server/ irc client (terminal services))
2) AMD XP1700+ dads work PC Win2k
3) P1 266 laptop (48mb ram 4gb hdd) win2k (PIC Programmer and programming
station)
4) My Machine (BBDOD (Big Black Desktop Of Doom)) Dual Xeon 3.06 Ghz, 1Gb
Ram , 80gb ide hdd, 36gb Segate X15 15000 RPM SCSI hdd (benchmarked 76mb/s
Xfer, rated 3.6 ave seek w00t) quantum dlt 4 tape drive. gigabyte raedon
9600 pro (computer was baught for my by a company so I could process their
phone bills in < 70 hours, they wanted VB and Access, now it runs on a
celery 600 in 5 minutes under Vb and MySQL.) I've had the computer for 3
months now and i'm still drooling over it *sigh*.
5) P4 1.4G Digital PVR mandrake linux (atm)
6) Celery 600 (general plaything for learning stuff)
7-?) unknown number of computers in a small pile in the work room

> {Original Message removed}

2003\12\12@023012 by johnc

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Is there any chance you own a PDP 11. A great machine to run the ancient Unix
v7 and BSD.

John

Quoting Neil Cherry <spamBeGonencherrySTOPspamspamEraseMECOMCAST.NET>:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\12@024010 by johnc

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Quoting Herbert Graf <spamBeGonemailinglistspamKILLspamFARCITE.NET>:

{Quote hidden}

I would normally agree to VNC and telnet programs to control my remote machines.
The reasons why I bought a KVM switch.

1) I did not have a network in the beginning...... No money to invest on a good
switch and nic(3com and intel so far).
2) Started to learn network. So network went up and down. Therefore VNC and
telnet becomes useless. KVM is a great help here!
3) No room anymore in my study room. I do envy Grey Lehey
http://www.lemis.com/~grog/index.html room!
4) VNC eats up all the bandwidth I have *playing movie!*
5) Saves money. No need to buy a new monitor. Okay VNC also saves money.

John

*Who has a dual monitor setup.*

I am currently trying to justify cost and space. Please share your opinions.
Thank you.

{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\12@024219 by johnc

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Hi Robert,

 How did you get the PDP 11? I am also looking for one myself.

John

Quoting Robert Rolf <TakeThisOuTRobert.RolfKILLspamspamspamUALBERTA.CA>:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\12@024633 by johnc

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Hi Jake,

  What hardware are you using for your PVR machine. I am looking into
the PVR 250 myself.

John

Quoting Jake Anderson <spamBeGonegrooveee@spam@spamspam_OUTOPTUSHOME.COM.AU>:

{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

2003\12\12@035841 by dr. Imre Bartfai

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I could not count at first, but I try:

1.) AMD2100+, 512MB, 17" CRT running Debian/SID, DR-DOS, PTS-DOS
       my main machine for development
2.) Compaq Notebook 100: AMD K6-2/475 MHz, 96MB, running W98 (OEM),
       Debian/SID, DR-DOS
       general purpose portable machine, but a bit slow. Unfortunately
       under X has only 800x600 resolution.
3.) AMD533, 192MB, 15" LCD running Debian/SID, DR-DOS, PTS-DOS
       wife's workstation for PCB design & websurf
4.) Escom (who recalls?) notebook, 10"B&W LCD, 486/33, 4MB, 120MB HDD:
       running DR-DOS: just as serial terminal
5.) Panasonic TF-72 notebook, P4-1.8GHz, 256MB, 30GB, running W2000p,
       Debian/SID, DR-DOS, PTS-DOS; (owned by my employer, though, but I
       am designated to use it exclusively)
6.) 486DLC desktop - already retired.

All except #4 and #6 are networked.

Regards,
Imre

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2003\12\12@041125 by dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,

I forgot to mention the oldest beast:

7.) Primo 64k - a Hungarian machine built in '80s, Z80-based, 64k RAM,
commercial cassette recorder as storage media, B/W TV receiver as CRT, and
instead of a real keyboard it has a touchpad with no moving parts.
Built-in 16k BASIC interpreter, but one could run the processor directly -
good for Pascal & assembler development. I had written a WS-like editor
for it - I could process texts up to 26kB! Attached is a plug-in cartridge
with Centronics output. Simply too sorry to dump it...

Imre

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2003\12\12@041918 by Mike Morris

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At 10:36 PM 12/11/2003 -0700, you wrote:

>So who's got an IBM system 370 in their basement? Burrows? Sperry?
>Control data? other mini's?

Not a 370, but a 390 architecture... does that count?

IBM ES/9000 9221 model 190 Mainframe with 3380 DASD, 3880 Storage director,
3745 Comm controller, 9391 RAMAC array, 3420 tape drive, 3490 tape drives,
3174 control units.  Total weight: 14,000lbs

Others to fill in the gaps:

Imsai 8080  w/ADM3A dumb terminal (the original iMac!)
SWTPC 6800 (I think this wins the prize for slowest
clock:  860khz)  w/ASR33 Teletype
Processor Technology SOL-20

Apple II (orig)
Apple II+
Apple IIe
Apple 2c+
Apple IIgs
Apple Powerbook 100
Apple Powerbook 190cs
Apple MAC II
Apple Mac Quadra 950
Apple Mac II LC
Apple Powermac 8100
Apple G4 dual proc 533Mhz
Atari 800

The boring stuff:
Fujitsu Lifebook 530
Dell Inspiron 5000
(2) Generic Pentium II 400mhz towers  (1 linux, 1 win2k)
(1) Generic PII 450Mhz (Linux)
Generic Athlon XP2400+ (Win2k)

and... they all work!

- Mike

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2003\12\12@052921 by Jake Anderson

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its still a beta atm running generic tv tuner
I am looking at http://www.dpanda.com.au/dpanda/dvbtpci.html
HD Digital
slurp lol

in australia so i'm wary of buying overseas with our odball setup here
> {Original Message removed}

2003\12\12@063848 by Lyle Hazelwood

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At Home:

Celeron 500/Win98SE (Wife)
Athlon 750/Win98SE (Daughter)
Athlon 800/Win98SE (My web & design machine)
Amiga 4000/OS3.0 (Home Automation)

Work:
P4 2 GHZ/Win2K desktop
P2 Laptop/Win98SE
P1 Laptop/Win98SE

This doesn't count the 5 "retired" Amigas I keep
for small jobs or spare parts.

Lyle

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2003\12\12@070830 by Hulatt, Jon

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1. Homebuilt Athlon XP 2100+, with 1024Mb + 180 Gb SCSI-3
2. TIME pentium 3 600 with a broken CD-ROM
3. homebuilt K6-400, modified to run silent (underclocked, passive process
cooling, low speed PSU fan, solid state disk)
4. dell inspiron latop, P4 2.5GHz, 1Gb RAM, widescreen TFT. DVD writer (very
nice bit of kit)

and my gaming collection:-

X-Box
PlayStation 2
GameCube
Gameboy Advance SP
Gameboy Advance
Gameboy Color
Gameboy pocket
Playstation 1
Playstation Net Yaroze (the programmable one, quite cool)

and the vintage collection:-

super nintendo
sega saturn
sega megadrive (genesis)
sega master system
colecovision
atari 2600
nintendo nes
various nintendo game & watches

jon

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2003\12\12@073809 by Rick C.

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How many computers do we own? Totally unknown. Greater than 65.
How many 286 and later have been mothballed? 28
How many are functioning and being used daily? 8
How many are on 24/7? 6
How many functioning computers are under the same roof? 24
How many hard drives spin 24/7 under the same roof? 8
How many are on the same local network? 37 (the network spans wi-fi to
work)
How many Win2k? Cannot divulge.
How many NT40? 1
How may Linux RH7? 2
How many Unix? 1
How many XP? 1
How many Win98? 2
How many Win3.11? 1
How many DOS only? 2 (the old 286 NEC formats floppies better)
How many laptops? 5
How many PDA's? 0
How many computers in automobile? 1
How many functioning printers? 4
I can document with pictures.
Rick C.

john chung wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\12@091538 by Dan Oelke

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Robert - you seem to have most of us beat hands down.  Now - would you
mind sharing some pictures of your ummmmm "warehouse" so that the rest
of us can use them as evidence with our "discussions" with the spouse about
keeping that one treasured piece of hardware?  <grin>

Dan

>
>Hello. My name is Robert, and I am a packaholic....
>Garage? That's not a garage. That's my warehouse...
>
>
>

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2003\12\12@091747 by D. Jay Newman

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I feel so, well, outnumbered.  :)

1. Windows XP Pro, dual processor (Dell case, other motherboard).
2. Linux server (Antec case, Dell motherboard).
3. Windows XP Pro laptop (Inspirion 8100).
4. Sharp Zaurus.
5. A couple of motherboards kept for parts.

All of these except #5 are networked.
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2003\12\12@094032 by Mike Harrison

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OK, my list is probably small, but a little more varied than many..... Is anyone else still actively
using a 6502 based computer...? (I have a customer who still uses a couple of PETs as IEEE
controllers!)

Main PC - 1GHz Pentium 3 (win98) in hacked case so the slots and drives are all on the front. Many, many cables emerging.....

Tosh Tecra 500 laptop - (Win95/DOS) used almost exclusively in DOS mode for bashing serial commands
in & out of PIC/AVR based things.

Sony Vaio Picturebook  (win98) cute baby laptop used mainly for email on holidays and CD duplication
(External SCSI CD drives).

Sony VAIO PCG-FX-201 with no battery and dead CD drive (Win2K)- used as an  internet terminal in the
living room.
2GHz Athlon system recently built to test Windoze XP Media Edition, as I build remote control
widgets to control strange UK cable boxes with it. (http://www.redremote.co.uk)

BBC Micro (6502 based), in custom rack case - comes in handy when I need to hack up some sort of
strange hardware protocol generator/analyser as you can do accurate timing loops in BASIC or ASM!

Acorn A540 (ARM based) - I designed a lot of hardware in the past for this range of machines, which
were way ahead of their time but marketed incompetently. I have still yet to find anything quicker/better than its BBC BASIC 5 for things like generating
sine/thermistor lookup tables etc. for PIC projects. Also holds some old PCB files from when I used PCB software that I wrote many years ago. Often used
as a serial port sniffer, but not much else.

Acorn Risc PC. Faster version of above - hardly ever used, and will probably be the next thing to go
when I need more room!

Ancient IBM 386 laptop, bought for peanuts for that occaison I need a second DOS machine for serial
port bashing etc.

..and of course a big box of assorted PC mainboards, cards, drives that could probably make about
two and a half PCs at a pinch!

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2003\12\12@095033 by D. Jay Newman

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> OK, my list is probably small, but a little more varied than many..... Is anyone else still actively
> using a 6502 based computer...? (I have a customer who still uses a couple of PETs as IEEE
> controllers!)

The very *first* computer I built was 6502 based. This was when the chip
was fairly new. The computer had a wooden case and a huge amount of RAM
(18k!) for the time.

I programmed an assembler that used two-character mneumonics because it
made the table lookups *much* easier. I hand-assembled the assembler and
entered it into the computer.
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2003\12\12@095448 by Tim ODriscoll

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I've not seen any Spectrum's mentioned on this thread... Can't believe I'm
the only one with a Spectrum 128K (with built-in tape drive!) and Kempston
joystick interface... Surely someone's got the ol' 64K rubber-key'd
version?

Tim

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2003\12\12@100445 by Mike Harrison

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On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:54:06 +0000, you wrote:

>I've not seen any Spectrum's mentioned on this thread... Can't believe I'm
>the only one with a Spectrum 128K (with built-in tape drive!) and Kempston
>joystick interface... Surely someone's got the ol' 64K rubber-key'd
>version?
>
>Tim
..but are you still using it ?

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2003\12\12@100901 by Tim ODriscoll

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On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Mike Harrison wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:54:06 +0000, you wrote:
> >I've not seen any Spectrum's mentioned on this thread... Can't believe I'm
> >the only one with a Spectrum 128K (with built-in tape drive!) and Kempston
> >joystick interface... Surely someone's got the ol' 64K rubber-key'd
> >version?
>
> ..but are you still using it ?

I use it more in the summer... When the door needs wedging open :)

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2003\12\12@130811 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 01:37 AM 12/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > How about you?
> >
> > John
>
>Coleco ADAM   S/N 2
>
>S/N 1 went through a crusher

Got a metal case "chicklet" keyboard Commodore PET. It still works.
A couple VIC-20's, a 64. Got rid of the massive Cromemco S-100 system.
Lots of other computers, only 7 in current use (for C. and myself).

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
speffspam_OUTspam@spam@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

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2003\12\12@140212 by Nate Duehr

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john chung wrote:

> My list of stuff.....

When I first read your e-mail John, I thought... why would I want to
list everything?  Then I did it and went... whoa dude... toys.  Nate's
data center!  :-)  Of course, I do system administration for a living
and keep track of about 80 machines for work also... so I have no life.
 Haha...

1) IBM R31 Laptop PIII-1 GHZ w/Win XP and Mandrake Linux
   (everyday work machine)
2) Toshiba Portege 3015 - PI MMX: rover.natetech.com
   (old personal laptop w/broken keyboard plugged into KVM)
3) Athlon 2500 w/removable hard drive tray - drives currently have
WinXP, RedHat 9.0, and Mandrake 9.2 - but get changed like underwear.
    (development/desktop home machine - edgar.natetech.com)
4) iMac DV/SE 500MHz G3
    (Mac OSX development/desktop machine - MacOnIt.natetech.com)
5) Sun Ultra 2, single 133MHz processor, Debian Linux "Unstable"
    (mail/web server - durango.natetech.com)
6) AMD K6-2 350, Running Smoothwall Firewall Express 2.0
    (Linux firewall - midair.natetech.com)
7) PII-200, Debian Linux "Unstable"
    (project web server, NFS file server - rt.natetech.com)
8) PIII-450, either Mandrake Linux or FreeBSD after this weekend
    (soon to become a free e-mail server for ham operators)
9) PI-150, Win98SE
    (this one programs PIC's - GRIN - no host name)
10) PI-150, RedHat Linux
    (Ham Radio VoIP link - irlp2.natetech.com)
11) PII-233, RedHat Linux
    (Ham Radio VoIP link - irlp1.natetech.com)
12) Compaq Prolinea 1500 PI-150, FreeBSD 4.8
    (old clunker SCSI fileserver... can't even remember hostname ha)
13) iMac 350MHz G3
    (wife's "don't touch my Mac OS9 machine with my software on it" box)

This list doesn't include the piles of broken and/or decommissioned
Pentium I's lying around that really aren't doing anything, and a couple
of project machines for ham radio club projects and/or whatever... that
aren't actually online and doing anything or are pre-built with software
and are "backups" for their working machines.  ;-)

Nate, RemoveMEnateEraseMEspamKILLspamnatetech.com

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2003\12\12@154505 by Jinx
face picon face
> The very *first* computer I built was 6502 based. This was when
> the chip was fairly new. The computer had a wooden case and a
> huge amount of RAM (18k!) for the time

My very first was an 1802. Only assembly, which was a good kick-
start for 6510 when the VIC20/C64 came out. Wonderfully friendly
User Ports. Still have them all and a Spectravideo tucked under the
house plus a heap of old machines for component stripping

===================================================

I have just two active computers now, both 2.4GHz PCs

"If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong
oxen or 1024 chickens?"

- Seymour Cray

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2003\12\12@154714 by D. Jay Newman

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> > The very *first* computer I built was 6502 based. This was when
> > the chip was fairly new. The computer had a wooden case and a
> > huge amount of RAM (18k!) for the time
>
> My very first was an 1802. Only assembly, which was a good kick-

Yes, I wanted one of those ever since the articles in Popular Electronics
came out. But I was in high-school at the time and couldn't afford it.  :(
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2003\12\12@155755 by Robert Rolf

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William Chops Westfield wrote:
>
> On Thursday, Dec 11, 2003, at 21:36 US/Pacific, Robert Rolf wrote:
>
> > and lots and lots of other DEC stuff (tape drives, disk drive (RK05,
> > RK02...).
> >
> You don't happen to have a working DECTape drive, do you?

Which flavour? A 1" PDP 8 drive still exists. You'd just have write your
own code to interface with the head data. (fairly easy now with a 40Mhz PIC).
Unfortunately I trashed the formatter years ago. I think I still have
a 1/2" MT05, but not sure about the controller for that.
Unfortunately "DECTape" refered to two different tape types, depending
on family line. Also known as 'LinkTape' on PDP 12s (IMS).

The archeologists would have a field day in my garages as they peeled layer
upon layer of old hardware off.

R

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2003\12\12@160012 by Robert Rolf

picon face
johnc@XYBASE.COM wrote:
>   How did you get the PDP 11? I am also looking for one myself.

Which one? PDP 11 is a family name. It comes in many variations over
the decade or so that they were in production.

The PDP 11/05's were picked up at auction. They were the original units
I trained on a decade before. The others by being in the right place
at the right time, and having the ability to cart them away.

I think I still have the CAPS units (cassette tape storage) for the
11/05's, and RX02 8" floppy drives. Only the 11/34, 11/70 & 11/23 use
solid state memory. The rest are core based.


R

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2003\12\12@163039 by Nate Duehr

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Herbert Graf wrote:

>>Anything more than three, and you constantly waste time
>>maintaining them!
>
>
>         Go Linux. Run the update program once a week and you'll be fine. TTYL

That's what cron and apt-get are for.  ;-)  They e-mail me if they need
"help" for whatever reason.

Nate, RemoveMEnatespam_OUTspamnatetech.com

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2003\12\12@163423 by Nate Duehr

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Neil Cherry wrote:

> I've got a 3B2 300, not even close, but it is multi user (but so is
> my Sardis ST2900 6809 OS9 LI).

Ohhh... OS/9.  I miss it.

What a nicely done multiuser/multitasking OS.

Level II was better, though.  :-)

Nate, spam_OUTnatespam_OUTspamspam_OUTnatetech.com

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2003\12\12@163627 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Friday, Dec 12, 2003, at 12:40 US/Pacific, Jinx wrote:

> My very first was an 1802.

Speaking of simulators:

http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/computer_simulators.htm

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2003\12\12@164042 by Tom

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part 1 388 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Ok, I'll jump in too, if only to say I have just one.

Can't remember the manufacturer name offhand so I've included a small jpg
of it. Note the wireless mouse on the right...

Tom

(If you look closely, you'll notice the memory is fragmented and the system
probably needs a reset)

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part 2 15970 bytes content-type:image/jpeg; name="mycomputer.jpg"; (decode)


part 3 108 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


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2003\12\12@164706 by Jinx

face picon face
> > My very first was an 1802
>
> Yes, I wanted one of those ever since the articles in Popular
> Electronics came out. But I was in high-school at the time and
> couldn't afford it.  :(

The one I made was project 660 in ETI magazine (out of Australia).
Although its capabilities were fairly limited compared to today, it
was an excellent toe-in-the-water. Computers as such, ie PCs, leave
me cold and I've no great affection for them. Microcontrollers +
practical electronics has always interested me much more than
microprocessors

=================================================

http://www.cs.utc.edu/jdumas/cs460/papersfa02/rca1802/

The 1802 was designed for use as general-purpose computing or
control elements in a wide range of stored program systems or products.
It was designed with emphasis on maximum flexibility and minimum
cost, thus this chip was used in a wide range of devices.

The 1802 was the first microprocessor in space via the Defense
Meteorological Satellite Program 5D-1 spacecraft launched in 1976.
It was also included on the following spacecrafts:  OSCAR satellite,
USAT-1, USAT-2, Voyager, Viking, and Galileo. One reason for
its space use was that the 1802 was fabricated on sapphire, which
leads to radiation and static resistance, ideal for space travel

This versatile chip was also used in Chrysler electronic ignitions,
RCA and Radio Shack video games, RCA video terminals, and
ETI-660 computers. Swiss payphone manufacturer Sodeco-Sia
used it for phones in France, Austria, and third world countries
where its low power allowed the unit to work entirely from the power
of the phone line

In August & September of 1976 and also March & July of 1977,
Popular Mechanics ran a series of articles written by Joseph Weisbeckes
on how to build a hobbyist computer.  Mr. Weisbeckes called this
computer the COSMAC ELF

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2003\12\12@165536 by Marcel van Lieshout

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I'm still missing my first computer on this list: A homebuilt Nascom/2 with
8kb *static* ram.

Marcel

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2003\12\12@172931 by Herbert Graf

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> Herbert Graf wrote:
>
> >>Anything more than three, and you constantly waste time
> >>maintaining them!
> >
> >
> >         Go Linux. Run the update program once a week and you'll
> be fine. TTYL
>
> That's what cron and apt-get are for.  ;-)  They e-mail me if they need
> "help" for whatever reason.

       Call me paranoid, call it personal preference, but I NEVER let a machine
update itself, even linux machines. TTYL

----------------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

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2003\12\12@191747 by Neil Cherry

picon face
Nate Duehr wrote:
> Neil Cherry wrote:
>
>> I've got a 3B2 300, not even close, but it is multi user (but so is
>> my Sardis ST2900 6809 OS9 LI).
>
>
> Ohhh... OS/9.  I miss it.
>
> What a nicely done multiuser/multitasking OS.
>
> Level II was better, though.  :-)

I'm still very impressed by the Gimix Ghost we used to run in 1986.
We had 5 programmers, secretary and myself (2 of the programmers
were the EE's, I was debug and electronics repair). Level II was
a very nice touch. Weird the processor was only clocked at 4MHz. :-)

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2003\12\12@212150 by Brent Brown

picon face
> > > My very first was an 1802
> >
> > Yes, I wanted one of those ever since the articles in Popular
> > Electronics came out. But I was in high-school at the time and
> > couldn't afford it.  :(
>
> The one I made was project 660 in ETI magazine (out of Australia).
> Although its capabilities were fairly limited compared to today, it
> was an excellent toe-in-the-water. Computers as such, ie PCs, leave me
> cold and I've no great affection for them. Microcontrollers +
> practical electronics has always interested me much more than
> microprocessors

Hey I built one of those too, when I was about 12, and I still have it. Wrote
some programs in Basic and remember hours and hours of either tuning in
the TV used as a monitor or playing with record and playback levels trying to
load/save programs with an audio cassette deck. Didn't get into assembly
language programing until tertiaty education.

My first PC was a HP Vectra with an 8 or 10MHz processor. The hard drive
was a Seagate 40MB and it cost me NZ$1000 on its own! I still have it too,
not because I'm emotionally attached to it, just because everytime I go to
throw it away I keep thinking of the price I paid for it!

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2003\12\12@221011 by Nate Duehr

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On Friday 12 December 2003 03:28 pm, Herbert Graf wrote:

>         Call me paranoid, call it personal preference, but I NEVER let a
> machine update itself, even linux machines. TTYL

Fair enough.  I got over that fear when I had over 200 Linux boxes to maintain
at once.  I set up a schedule where non-production boxes updated
automatically a day or so before the production boxes.  If there was any
"breakage" I turned off the updates and figured out the issue.

Otherwise I'd have gone insane or maybe even been hacked.  A large number of
that 200 were on public addresses and had very large pipes to the Internet.

It was kinda the only way to get things done.  In the case of my home
machines, I'll let 'em update automatically -- and just keep an eye on them.

Of course, backups are always a good thing too.  If those are up-to-date, and
you know they work -- it's easy to get back where they were before the
update... with probably only a few e-mails lost in the process.  :-)

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2003\12\13@052315 by michael brown

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From: "D. Jay Newman"
> > My very first was an 1802. Only assembly, which was a good kick-
>
> Yes, I wanted one of those ever since the articles in Popular
Electronics
> came out. But I was in high-school at the time and couldn't afford it.
:(

You must be about my age then.  After much begging, my parents got me a
$99 kit from Netronics (anyone remember them?) for Christmas in 1978
(IIRC).  That was quite an odd CPU having no "reasonably usable" stack
ability or even call/return instructions.  No assembler, all machine
code keyed in using the spiffy hex keypad (as opposed to the original
designs 8 toggle switches).  All in all, roughly comparable in power to
a low end PIC though the 1802 does have some "awareness" of the 16 bit
world.  There's a big groupie following for them at http://www.cosmacelf.com
Some guy even coded one up in an FPGA.

michael brown

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2003\12\13@073758 by Rick C.

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I still have my Netronics system fully functioning somewhere. I was amazed
how cool it ran. I kept on touching the package waiting to see if it got
warm. I liked the lottle boot routine it had that would detect the baud rate
by sending a CR to it. It required a fraction of the code that my old Altair
needed.
Rick

michael brown wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\13@133020 by D. Jay Newman

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> From: "D. Jay Newman"
> > > My very first was an 1802. Only assembly, which was a good kick-
> >
> > Yes, I wanted one of those ever since the articles in Popular
> Electronics
> > came out. But I was in high-school at the time and couldn't afford it.
> :(

I just waited until college, and then I built my own computer with a
6502. But it was the 1802 that started my interest in low-level computing.

> You must be about my age then.  After much begging, my parents got me a

45. An impossibly old age from the point of view of my high-school self,
but there it is.  :)
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2003\12\13@151343 by William Chops Westfield

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On Friday, Dec 12, 2003, at 04:46 US/Pacific, michael brown wrote:

>  All in all, roughly comparable in power to a low end PIC

nah.   IIRC, while the 1802 ran at up to 10MHz (when powered
by 12V), it also used something like 16 (!) cycles per
instruction, compared to four for the PIC.  A weird beast
by todays standards; something like 16 pointer registers.
And of course the famous "sex" instruction.

BillW

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2003\12\13@152211 by Herbert Graf

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> by todays standards; something like 16 pointer registers.
> And of course the famous "sex" instruction.

       Now this peaked my interest, what "sex" instruction? Executing it would
cause the chip to get up and seek a mate? :) TTYL

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2003\12\13@163552 by Jinx

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> Now this peaked my interest, what "sex" instruction? Executing
> it would cause the chip to get up and seek a mate? :) TTYL

Yeah, you could always tell when SEX was being executed. One
of the 1802's pins was sticking out of the socket

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2003\12\13@172025 by Walter Banks

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The 1802 was an interesting little beast. Many years ago I was a Harris NJ plant
that used to be owned by RCA and was the home of the developers of the 1802. One
of the Voyagers was close to its last planetary encounter. It had already been a
few years since Voyager had been launched. At lunch one day an elder gentleman
came along and his story was that he looked forward to retirement as soon as
Voyager passed its last Planet. Seems that he had taped out the 1802 IC and NASA
needed him to be available if needed. Those were the days that processors had
real signal and power tracks in them also one of the reasons besides essentially
no power consumption that the 1802 was a favored early space computer.

w..


"Rick C." wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\13@174350 by William Chops Westfield

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On Saturday, Dec 13, 2003, at 10:24 US/Pacific, D. Jay Newman wrote:
>
> I just waited until college, and then I built my own computer with a
> 6502. But it was the 1802 that started my interest in low-level
> computing.
>
Ditto.  I had done electronic stuff: dice, lock, blinky lights, and so
on,
and I looked at the PE article and realized that it could implement
essentially every electronics project i had ever built, just by changing
the software.

For better or worse, I got distracted by mainframes, and it was quite a
long time before I got my own microcomputer (of any kind) actually
working.  My would-be CPM system that never quite worked got left in
the attic of a former employer, and I suspect it was thrown away when
they switched buildings (or it could still be there.  Somewhere.)
The first system I ever owned was an HP-150 "almost sort-of" PC clone.

BillW

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2003\12\13@190629 by Neil Cherry

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William Chops Westfield wrote:

> And of course the famous "sex" instruction.

6809 (my favorite processor :-), SEX = Signed EXchange. :-)

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2003\12\13@195517 by michael brown

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From: "William Chops Westfield"


> On Friday, Dec 12, 2003, at 04:46 US/Pacific, michael brown wrote:
>
> >  All in all, roughly comparable in power to a low end PIC
>
> nah.   IIRC, while the 1802 ran at up to 10MHz (when powered
> by 12V), it also used something like 16 (!) cycles per
> instruction, compared to four for the PIC.  A weird beast

I don't know, 10MHz sounds pretty high to me at least for a 1978 vintage
processor.  Mine ran at (3.58MHz / 2).  8 clock "ticks" per machine
cycle, most instructions taking two or three cycles.

> by todays standards; something like 16 pointer registers.
> And of course the famous "sex" instruction.

Yes, quite an interesting mnemonic.  ;-)  Did you test the "illegal"
op-code 0x68 to see what it did on your CPU?  If anyone has a spare
CDP-1861 lying around, I'd like to get my ELF going again.

michael brown

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2003\12\13@202048 by William Chops Westfield

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On Saturday, Dec 13, 2003, at 12:19 US/Pacific, Herbert Graf wrote:

>> And of course the famous "sex" instruction.
>
>         Now this peaked my interest, what "sex" instruction? Executing
> it would cause the chip to get up and seek a mate?

"SEt X"  The 1802 had 16 16-bit pointer registers, and several 4-bit
registers that selected which of the pointer registers was the PC (P),
and which was the data pointer register (X)  You could also reference
a data pointed to by a register via the instruction itself, or via the
designated PC (which gave you immediate data capability.)  There were
assorted autoincrement and decrement modes.  DMA, input, output, and
most math all went via memory pointed at by a register.  The 1802 was
pointer intensive in exactly the way that a PIC isn't. :-)

The canonical "call" procedure consisted of designating standard PC
and stack registers, and setting the PC pointer to a register that
would hold the address of code that would push the normal pc onto
the stack, grab data from the old pc (with increment to get beyond
it), move that into the standard pc register, and set the pc pointer
back to the standard one.  Short calls consisted of simply switching
which register was the PC (but you couldn't nest those...)

It was ... neat.  Wish I had gotten around to building one :-(
(I DO still have some 1802s in my junk box.  But I've sorta lost
the love of toggling in programs...)

BillW

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2003\12\13@220025 by Rick C.

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I have a box of 1800 series chips. If I have one I'll let you have it..
Rick

michael brown wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\13@230816 by michael brown

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From: "Rick C."


> I have a box of 1800 series chips. If I have one I'll let you have
it..
> Rick

You don't know how much I'd appreciate that, they're pretty rare.  :-)
They were used in RCA Studio-II and Radio Shack TV game units.  It's a
video output device that maps 256 bytes of ram to a TV type display as
32*64 monochrome, rectangular pixels.  Since the original ELF only had
256 bytes of RAM the program occupied part of the screen.  Kinda unusual
with the changing variable locations causing miscellaneous blinking
pixels.

michael brown

{Quote hidden}

vintage
{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\14@182309 by Peter L. Peres

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> You don't know how much I'd appreciate that, they're pretty rare.  :-)
> They were used in RCA Studio-II and Radio Shack TV game units.  It's a
> video output device that maps 256 bytes of ram to a TV type display as
> 32*64 monochrome, rectangular pixels.  Since the original ELF only had
> 256 bytes of RAM the program occupied part of the screen.  Kinda unusual
> with the changing variable locations causing miscellaneous blinking
> pixels.

I don't know the ELF but this sounds like the ancestor of the Sinclair
ZX80 (not 81). 1k of ram (2x2114) , tiny basic in 4k eprom including
character generator (!) and sharing display ram with program memory. All
this done with 16 (or 12) standard TTL chips using a Z80A at 3.25MHz.
Schematics and ROM image are available on the Internet. The picture would
break up when a program was 'run' (image scan and sync were provided by
the Z80 doing NOPs during scan lines and interrupts at line ends). The way
the Sinclair engineers looped the display data through the code EPROM to
get at the character generator data still hurts my mind.

Peter

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2003\12\14@195838 by Josh Koffman

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I think the ZX81 only had 4 chips, right? I have mine somewhere...I'll
have to try to dig it up.

Josh
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"Peter L. Peres" wrote:
> I don't know the ELF but this sounds like the ancestor of the Sinclair
> ZX80 (not 81). 1k of ram (2x2114) , tiny basic in 4k eprom including
> character generator (!) and sharing display ram with program memory. All
> this done with 16 (or 12) standard TTL chips using a Z80A at 3.25MHz.
> Schematics and ROM image are available on the Internet. The picture would
> break up when a program was 'run' (image scan and sync were provided by
> the Z80 doing NOPs during scan lines and interrupts at line ends). The way
> the Sinclair engineers looped the display data through the code EPROM to
> get at the character generator data still hurts my mind.

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2003\12\14@224551 by ahid Sheikh

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At home only one now. Used to have 9 server computers when I was living
in the States that kept the basement nice and toasty. Gave them all away
when I moved.

All I have now is a 1.9GHz Compaq Presario 2800T with 1GB of RAM, 48GB
HD and a 1600x1200 screen on it running XP home (hey! that's what it
came with.) Inside of it I am running several virtual machines (VMWare;
if you haven't tried it, download an eval. Its sweet) running all kinds
of OS. It does the job well. Though because of the heavy continuous use
I put it thru, I kill its HD ever 6 months or so.

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2003\12\23@020548 by David Koski

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On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:43:54 -0500
"D. Jay Newman" <TakeThisOuTjayspamspamRemoveMESPRUCEGROVE.COM> wrote:

> I programmed an assembler that used two-character mneumonics because it
> made the table lookups *much* easier. I hand-assembled the assembler and
> entered it into the computer.

I would have been delighted to have such a luxury.  My first computer was an 8080 that I bought from Radio Shack.  It wasn't long before I figured out that it needs more than a CPU chip!  The first version had one kilobytes (I think they were 2114 4 bit wide chips) of RAM and no ROM.  Heck, I never had a programmer to program them.  That is what I was building!  A hand assembled program entered in binary dip switches enabled a hex keypad.  It took seven tries to enter an eprom programmer routine before I had an EPROM to boot from.

For photos:

http://kosmosisland.com/island/david/comp8080/comp8080.html

Then I wrote a BIOS for generic CP/M that I bought on an 8 inch floppy for a S-100 pieced together workhorse.  Then I had an assembler for the first time.

David Koski

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2003\12\23@050741 by Tim ODriscoll

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On Mon, 22 Dec 2003, David Koski wrote:
> I would have been delighted to have such a luxury.  My first computer
> was an 8080 that I bought from Radio Shack.  It wasn't long before I
> figured out that it needs more than a CPU chip!  The first version had
> one kilobytes (I think they were 2114 4 bit wide chips) of RAM and no
> ROM.  Heck, I never had a programmer to program them.  That is what I
> was building!  A hand assembled program entered in binary dip switches
> enabled a hex keypad.  It took seven tries to enter an eprom programmer
> routine before I had an EPROM to boot from.
>
> Then I wrote a BIOS for generic CP/M that I bought on an 8 inch floppy
> for a S-100 pieced together workhorse.  Then I had an assembler for the
> first time.

And there was me feeling chuffed about my flashing LED...

Respect.

:)

Tim

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2003\12\23@063934 by Russell McMahon

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> A hand assembled program entered in binary dip switches enabled a hex
keypad.

Hex keypad!
You had a hex keypad ! ????????????

When I was a boy we only had binary switches for all input (address and
data).
The SC/MP (Nat Semi's fond nightmare)  had a convenient 'step one step and
stop while outputting address lines' mode which allowed data entry to RAM
using the cpu as an address counter. Then reset and run.

My greatest programming joy (possibly ever?) was the first time I persuaded
a D2 kit to read a block of data from an 8 track magnetic tape drive into
the 6802's buffer. Flick - 1 block read. Wasn't sure it had actually worked
until I had rewound the tape, zero'd RAM buffer and read it again and
compared the data. Had to steal the stack pointer and use it to store data
to get the loop speed fast enough to handle the tape. 1 MHz clock afair.



   Russell "uphill to school both ways, in the snow,
       without shoes, at the bottom of a lake in a
           cardboard box*" McMahon

* See archives of years gone by for explanation, if needed :-)

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2003\12\23@182637 by Howard Winter

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On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 00:38:50 +1300, Russell McMahon wrote:

>> A hand assembled program entered in binary dip switches enabled a hex keypad.
>
> Hex keypad!
> You had a hex keypad ! ????????????
>
> When I was a boy we only had binary switches for all input (address and
> data).

I had the luxury of a "terminal" device - a keyboard which sent ASCII into a serial port, and a 20 x 32 VDU
(monochrome, of course).  But I only had a 1k "Monitor" program in firmware (called MinMon, if I remember
rightly) so I had to write my programs on coding sheets, hand-assemble them and then type in the hex, but
using a QWERTY keyboard!  I never did get the Maze Mouse software finished, and sadly by the time of the
competition it would only stumble around the maze without knowing where it was.  This was using a Z80
(2.5HMHz) with 2k of RAM (in 2114s) and a ROM-like device that was actually low-power RAM with a lithium
battery to keep the contents alive, all potted in some black gunge with 24-pins sticking out of the bottom,
and a "write enable" wire.  They reckoned the battery would hold the data for 10 years, which seemed like a
lot... 22 years ago  :-)

I still have it all somewhere...

>     Russell "uphill to school both ways, in the snow,
>         without shoes, at the bottom of a lake in a
>             cardboard box*" McMahon

Cardboard Box?  You had Cardboard Box???

You tell that to kids of today - they don't believe you!

:-)

Cheers,

Howard Winter
St.Albans, England

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2003\12\23@203629 by Phillip Vogel

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Way, way, way back when, I was working on a rather complicated control
system. The company I was working for had been very low tech up to that
time, and I was forced to sneak new technology into the products behind
everyone's back.

I was thinking Z80, they were thinking relays. At some point, I decided
to stay up late and build a pretty cool state machine using eproms,
counters, timers and some other glue logic. I had to build an eprom
programmer with switches and lights (did I mention that this was a LONG
night?). Within a few days, this was working better than anything they
had done up to that point. I was still thinking Z80. Now they were
hooked on the state machine, and I had to screw around with that thing
for months tweaking, tuning and cursing.

One day when the boss was away, I brought in the TRS80 Model I. It took
a couple of hours to hook up the address & data busses in place of the
eproms, and just a few hours to write  some assembly code to make
something that worked WAY better than the best we had had up to that
point. The final product had a Z80, and the boss never looked back.

So, the Model I lives in my attic.

-----

Since I've gotten this far off topic, I might as well go a little
further. I have boxes FULL of Z80 development stuff. Emulators,
debuggers, data books, parts, software... Everything you need to do some
major Z80 projects (and I've done quite a few). This stuff is up in the
attic with the TRS80, and I'd love to find it a new home. Anyone
interested? I'd trade for pretty much anything useful. My wife wants me
to put it on ebay, but I thought I'd ask here first.

Phillip

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2003\12\23@225527 by Jim Korman

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Phillip Vogel wrote:

{Quote hidden}

You might try comp.os.tandy. The standard Z-80 stuff might not go for much
on ebay. But I've seen some real wierd things happen when people start
bidding on old* computers.
(* Its hard to think of something as "old" that was made after I
got out of High School)

Jim

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2003\12\24@000855 by Russell McMahon

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> You might try comp.os.tandy. The standard Z-80 stuff might not go for much
> on ebay. But I've seen some real wierd things happen when people start
> bidding on old* computers.
> (* Its hard to think of something as "old" that was made after I
> got out of High School)

To take this thread to the next stage that this thread usually goes to :-)

Old computers ....

If you want to read about *REALLY* old computers look for a copy of

   "Faster than thought".
   A symposium on digital computing machines.
   Edited by B V Bowden.
   Isaac Pitman, London 1953 (!!!)

My copy used to grace the shelves of IT&T's Federal Telecommunication
Laboratories until someone decided that it would be better for it to migrate
to New Zealand via an ABE Books listed bookshop.

An utterly marvellous book.



       Russell McMahon

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