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PICList Thread
'[OT] PDF versus GIF'
2000\04\06@101243 by Thomas McGahee

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Paul,

The AutoCad drawing file was 8k in size.
Many people have no way to read DWG files.

The PDF file at 600 dpi was 18k in size.
The PDF file at 150 dpi was 17k in size.
There are free readers available for all platforms.

The GIF file came to 181k. I was able to reduce it to
57k monochrome.

I also prefer the PDF files because the PDF writer
is accessible the same as a printer, and so I can
produce PDF files from ANY of my applications.

I find the quality of the PDF files superior. I
normally produce 600 dpi PDF files, as they
reproduce excellently on laser printers, and the
increase in file size is very small.

I might be able to get something readable from
an 18k GIF, but that same 18k of file space
in PDF format gives me a MUCH better result
when printed out on paper.

In general I have found the PDF files to be
smaller than the comparable quality GIF files,
plus I can incorporate word processor elements,
and in that case people can extract the text
if they desire.

I was initially suprised to find that if I
include a GIF file into a PDF document, the
resulting PDF document is often actually smaller!

Fr. Tom McGahee

{Original Message removed}

2000\04\06@122521 by Roland Andrag

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Paul,

can you tell me how you got a gif out of Autocad?  I am using Acad 2000 and
would love a way of get drawings to a bitmap format at 600 dpi (300 dpi)...

I have a fairly longwinded process which works to some extent: export from
Acad as wmf, load into PSP 5 at high resolution, save as whatever bitmapped
format after reducing colour depth.  The problem with this is that Paint
Shop Pro is unable to load the image at a resolution higher that around 250
dpi due to its memory management (says 'out of memory', although I have 256
MB, which is more than enough).

Roland

----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas McGahee <spam_OUTtom_mcgaheeTakeThisOuTspamSIGMAIS.COM>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 2:57 PM
Subject: [OT] PDF versus GIF


{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2000\04\06@164548 by Barry King

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Fr. Tom,

I agree that PDF is superior in every way except possibly the
integration with web content.

My company has standardized on PDF for all pre-set content, because
it is so efficient and works on so many platforms.

As far as the integration: Acrobat (the PDF reader) plugs into
Netscape and IE very cleanly.  You do see it load, even on fast
machines, so its using some resources, but they load quicker than
embedded Word docs.

That's my $0.02.

------------
Barry King, KA1NLH
NRG Systems "Measuring the Wind's Energy"
http://www.nrgsystems.com
Check out the accumulated (PIC) wisdom of the ages at:
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.org

2000\04\06@183922 by paulb

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part 0 3246 bytes
> The PDF file at 600 dpi was 18k in size.
> The PDF file at 150 dpi was 17k in size.
> There are free readers available for all platforms.
> The GIF file came to 181k. I was able to reduce it to 57k monochrome.

 Tom, I can't help feeling you're doing something *WRONG* here.  The
attached .GIF doesn't have all the detail of what you sent, but looks
pretty clean.  I can only suspect that the right software applied to
your original and thus avoiding interpolation, would produce a more
concise or at least equal .GIF version.  I am glad we haven't
degenerated to the point of mentioning .JPGs though!

> I also prefer the PDF files because the PDF writer is accessible the
> same as a printer, and so I can produce PDF files from ANY of my
> applications.

 That's nice, but it's a proprietary software, unlike the reader.
(This discussion has been covered on the list before.)

> I find the quality of the PDF files superior. I normally produce 600
>? dpi PDF files, as they reproduce excellently on laser printers, and
> the increase in file size is very small.

 I do agree that Acrobat prints correctly, unlike any .GIF viewer I
have used so far.  Well, unlike Netscape at least.

> I might be able to get something readable from an 18k GIF, but that
> same 18k of file space in PDF format gives me a MUCH better result
> when printed out on paper.

 How does the enclosure look?  I'll have to try it at work, but I even
suspect Netscape might print it correctly!

> In general I have found the PDF files to be smaller than the
> comparable quality GIF files,

 See my initial comment, and below.

> plus I can incorporate word processor elements, and in that case
> people can extract the text if they desire.

 True, but not for the example given.  If the file was an Acrobat
construct to begin, then I'd immediately agree that is the superior
representation and *always* prints perfectly.  I just can't quite
believe that a bitmap import will be compressed significantly better by
the Acrobat format than the .GIF format.  Thus my comment that if you're
going to post a file from another format, make it directly web-readable.

 My real gripe is probably that the plug-in as applied to Netscape, is
so badly behaved, for which reason I managed to remove the beggar at
some length...

> I was initially suprised to find that if I include a GIF file into a
> PDF document, the resulting PDF document is often actually smaller!

 I can't help thinking you used a *bad* .GIF file.  If they use a
better compression algorithm than .GIF, then why isn't it in general
use?

Roland Andrag wrote:

> can you tell me how you got a gif out of Autocad?  I am using Acad
> 2000 and would love a way of get drawings to a bitmap format at 600
> dpi (300 dpi)...

 Sorry, can't give you a generic, guaranteed method, but this *was*
covered the previous time round on the list and a capture software
recommended.  Because this particular file fits on my display, I used
PrintScreen to capture it, Paint to crop it and Adobe (must be smart
guys, these) PhotoDeluxe to convert to .GIF.
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.
Attachment converted: growth:ccsource.gif (GIFf/JVWR) (0000DA0B)

2000\04\06@195107 by Sebastian Garcia

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Tom,

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas McGahee <tom_mcgaheespamKILLspamSIGMAIS.COM>


...
|I also prefer the PDF files because the PDF writer
|is accessible the same as a printer, and so I can
|produce PDF files from ANY of my applications.


What PDF writer are You using? Adobe's?

Regards,

S.-

2000\04\07@082101 by Op

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I use ps and pdf files alot and put together this info sheet to help others
get up to speed on how to start using it. Any program that outputs to a
printer can be used. this is also how to convert ps files to pdf. Here is
the text from it.

For anyone interested,

This is how I create PDF files

1) Create the document in whatever program you can print out on in windows
ie: Corel Draw, PageMaker, Ilustrator, PhotoShop. PDF really shows its
strength when dealing with structured drawing programs. Like a schematic
layout or even PCB layout program.

2) You need to install a printer driver from a generic HP PostScript
printer, I use the one from the win95 install disks, but there are others
available online as well. 1. Goto control panel 2. Printers 3. Add printer
4. Select Post Script Printer.  5. Select "Print to File"
3) Goto http://www.ghostscript.com and download both ghost script, and ghost view
you will only be using ghost view, but it is merely a GUI to ghostScript.

4) After the printer driver is working correctly, choose print setup in the
program you used to create the file. Choose the PostScript printer. It will
ask for you to give it a file name, anyname.ps is the format you type in.

5) Open the document you just saved in GhostView, now choose, Print, then
choose print to file, and pdfwrite.

6) to check your work you can open that file you printed to pdfwrite in
acrobats reader








{Original Message removed}

2000\04\07@094547 by Thomas McGahee

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Paul,
Often it is just a matter of convenience. Take the circuit that
you converted into a GIF. I originally saw a post asking about
how to go about designing a constant current source for
charging 15 capacitors to drive 15 solenoids.

I have a five minute break between class periods. (I am an
educator, teach electronics and computer technology). In
between two class periods I clicked on AutoCad, drew the
schematic, added in the text explaining how to calculate
various parts values, printed it as a PDF to my TEMP
directory, closed Autocad, opened my Mail program, created
a new e-mail, typed a short paragraph, attached the PDF
file, sent out the e-mail and closed the Mail program all
in time to be able to greet my next class as they came in
the door.

Converting to a GIF would have added several extra steps and
then I would have had to put off sending the e-mail for
at least another class period.

I have several choices:

1) Don't answer the post for help at all.

2) Answer the post just with a couple of paragaraphs and hope the
  person understands the text.

3) Attempt to use dumb ascii art to give some visual idea of
  the circuit. Sometimes OK for really simple stuff, but
  too messy for most schematics.

4) Use the tools I have that I know well and can work very
  fast with. (This is what I usually choose)

5) Try to please everyone by providing the data in a half dozen
  different formats: PDF/GIF/JPG/ etc. I do this when I have
  the time, or when a person asking for help specifically
  requests a particular format such as AutoCad DWG. In that
  case the reply is sent JUST to the individual requesting
  it, and is not posted to the entire PIC list. For every
  one of my posts to the PIC list there are a half-dozen private
  replies that I send out just to the person who has requested
  help. I often tell them that if they have found it useful
  they may post my reply to the PIC list in the hope that
  it may help someone else, too.

6) Prepare a very professional presentation that takes many
  hours to prepare and which consumes a few megabytes of
  disk storage, and then post it on my website. (I do this
  for complete projects, such as my PIC based Autoranging
  Capacitance Meter)

When I have the time to convert to GIF, and *if* the GIF is
smaller in file size, then I will try to send the GIF to the
PIC list. But forgive me if I continue to use PDF files to illustrate
schematic details from time to time.

Fr. Tom McGahee

{Original Message removed}

2000\04\07@095811 by mike

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On Fri, 7 Apr 2000 05:18:52 -0700, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Look in your data CD-Rom collection - The Linear Technology 1996 CD
contains Adobe Exchange, which includes the PDF writer printer driver.
I don't know if later versions include it.

2000\04\07@134040 by mike

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>  True, but not for the example given.  If the file was an Acrobat
>construct to begin, then I'd immediately agree that is the superior
>representation and *always* prints perfectly.  I just can't quite
>believe that a bitmap import will be compressed significantly better by
>the Acrobat format than the .GIF format.  
If you print what is basically vector information (i.e line drawings
etc.) to a PDF printer driver, it appears to be retained as vector
data and not turned into a bitmap, and so is resolution-independent
and compact.

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