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'[OT] [EE] PC board transfer paper play'
2000\05\16@104655 by Mark Willis

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(Sorta funny one here <G>)

Found out what happens, yesterday, when you try to make a PCB by
printing on regular laser printer paper and ironing that on - I'd use
that for some big-trace boards (Heavy duty power supplies with 1/4"
traces etc., should work great!) - I will NOT recommend it, though, for
the 32-pin PLCC adapter I was making.  The paper sticks to the toner
rather thoroughly, does stick to the PCB well also.  I gave up and got
out the DynaArt paper after using acetone to clean up my little PCB
blank.

I'm always ready to try new things out, lets me problem solve - fun!
<G>  You do want to pull the plain paper off "flat" i.e. fold it over
180 degrees, then pull, after soaking for some time - seems to release
best that way.  Expect to rub off the rest of the paper fibers,
carefully, a bit at a time.  Probably, you could etch and the etchant
would eat in and only the toner would effectively resist - I didn't go
that far, maybe will next time.  The little adapter PC board I make (if
I didn't have 500 spare already!) would be a good testbed to try this
one out on, come to think of it.

(Got tired of trying to hand make little SOIC once-off's, toner does SO
much better so much easier than I can do offhand!)

Has anyone tried either spraying PVA (PolyVinyl Alchohol), or dextrin
solution, on their own paper to home-make an equivalent to the DynaArt
transfer paper?  It'd be quite convenient for me, to be able to make
quick once-offs more regularly (the DynaArt paper $3ish/sheet bill sure
adds up.  Less price per page would be nice - that thinking spawned the
"plain paper" try <G>)

I'm thinking you could roll or spray the PVA or Dextrin onto glass then
drop the paper onto that & clamp it (to keep it FLAT!), as one
possibility.  A little food coloring mixed into the PVA or Dextrin would
tell you which side to print onto.

Yes, I know, there are other "alternate print media" <G>  So little
time, so many mad science experiments <G>

 Mark

2000\05\16@120750 by Randy A.

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Mark:

Try buying some laser or inkjet labels ( I use the 3.5 floppy labels), peel
off the labels and print the PC trace onto the shiny backing paper the labels
were on with you laser printer.  Then you can iron them onto the copper clad
board with a common household iron.  Of course make certain that your board
is very very clean and also put another piece of paper over the top of the
backing sheet to put your iron on.  Preheat the board with the iron for about
30 seconds to 1 minute before you actually iron on the transfer.  Then place
the trace printout on the board, put the blank paper sheet on the backing and
place the iron on it.  Keep the iron with moderate pressure on there and move
it around slowly for about 2 minutes.  You may have to experiment with the
heat settings on the iron to get the proper results as irons all differ
somewhat.  I would start with the lowest and go until I had the setting you
need.

Carefully peel off the label backing material and hopefully you will have
your resist trace intact and ready for etching.

You might want to check out Al Williams web site as he has the detailed
instructions for doing PCBs this way.

Regards and hope this helps,
Randy A.

2000\05\16@131403 by Mark Willis

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That's been on my Try list, just haven't gotten to it yet <G>  I've
wondered if you can re-use the backing paper repeatedly, or is it
one-use only?  I can get shipping labels and use those to generate shiny
paper, will probably try the Glossy Magazine heavy stock first though.

 Mark

Randy A. wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\05\16@141306 by M. Adam Davis

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Many of the paper's properties are destroyed when heated and soaked...

-Adam

Mark Willis wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\05\16@143936 by Alice Campbell

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however, watercolorists wet paper repeatedly, and scrub at
it, even.  plain office paper is pretty pathetic, however
there are lots of paper types around, and im beginning to
think about kitchen waxed paper and shiny butcher paper,
stuck to thicker stock with a gluestick for a carrier through
the machine....
alice


{Quote hidden}

2000\05\16@153321 by Kris Wilk

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<x-flowed>A brief word of warning:

Laser printer fusers get very hot. The hot fuser can have all sorts of
interesting effects on various materials being fed against it. I would be
very leery about feeding some of the things I've heard suggested here and
elsewhere. Certainly anything waxy may have a tendency to gob melted goo
all over the insides of your printer if it can't take the heat. I remember
a guy telling me a story about someone who fed the wrong brand of
transparency through his laserjet and ended up with a mass of solid plastic
in the paper path...instant junker.

Of course some of the methods mentioned might work just dandy. It will
depend on the printer's fuser temperature a lot. Just because another guy
gets something to work doesn't mean it won't kill a different machine.

Kris

At 04:08 AM 5/16/00, you wrote:
>however, watercolorists wet paper repeatedly, and scrub at
>it, even.  plain office paper is pretty pathetic, however
>there are lots of paper types around, and im beginning to
>think about kitchen waxed paper and shiny butcher paper,
>stuck to thicker stock with a gluestick for a carrier through
>the machine....
>alice

</x-flowed>

2000\05\16@155820 by Arthur

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A neat solution to paper feed the relese paper through the printer is to
print onto paper stock, then cut-out a piece of relese paper the size of pcb
image and fix to paper with 3M magic tape along the leading edge of the
paper going into the printer {this tape is very thin and does not jam in the
printer}

Regards Art

{Original Message removed}

2000\05\16@223601 by Randy A.

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Nope, you can't use the backing but once.  I tried and it just doesn't seem
to work very well.

Randy A.

2000\05\16@224011 by Randy A.

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Hey, the waxed paper might work.  Although I am not sure about what the wax
will do to the copper board as far as the ethant is concerned.

Randy

2000\05\16@224017 by Randy A.

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OOPS, Kris you are right, forgot about that 180 plus temp on the fuser,  wax
paper is probably out then.

Randy

2000\05\17@012709 by William Chops Westfield

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I believe that the backing of laser-compatible labels are coated with
silicone of some kind.  Teflon might work as well - perhaps some of those
teflon-coated fiberglass "cloths" used for release coatings in composite
constrution.  Hmm...

I think some of the backings for plastic "labels" are also silicone based,
and sometimes much thicker and stronger than the paper-label backing (due to
tougher adhesives and thicker plastic as well.)

BillW

2000\05\17@105055 by Brian Hopkins

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I think this quest for quick, afforable protyping, on copper-clad
fiberglass, has dogged many of us.
Midnight engineering holy grail.

Bob Blick's  excellent pages - COM84 project mentioned 'a page from TIME
magazine'.
www.bobblick.com/bob/projects/f84pgm/index.html
(Medical offices providing obvious source, plus this has a 'green'
environmental feel to it...reuse, recycle)
I had to try it. It seems to have possibilties.  . The heat level was too
high on the iron, and the iron was reclaimed by it's owner, back to a boring
life working on quilting projects. I'll have to buy my own. (any
recommendations?)
Hopefully Mr Blick can lend a hand here, and expand on his experences...

One thing I have found is to push the limit of 'darkness' on my printer
setup, to lay down as much toner as possible.

Also, for those mad scientist types, what about the qualities of different
toners?. Specifically, the amounts and types of plastic granules? Is there a
better toner we could be using to refill our own cartridges?
Any research results?

Brian

2000\05\17@130716 by Donald Brown

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Where is Al Williams web site.  http ??


--- "Randy A." <spam_OUTCnc002TakeThisOuTspamAOL.COM> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\05\17@201441 by Brian Kraut

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I would bery strongly advise not putting wax paper through your laser printer.
I don't think that a coating of melted wax on your fusion rollers would be a
very good idea, not to mention that you couldn't iron it on without just making
a waxy mess anyway.

"Randy A." wrote:

> Hey, the waxed paper might work.  Although I am not sure about what the wax
> will do to the copper board as far as the ethant is concerned.
>
> Randy

2000\05\22@204718 by marquis DeSade

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hello all,
a trick i learned was to use 60lb paper in a laser
printer, the toner has plastic in it, and heavy bond
ie. 60-120lb paper has clay in it, so you iron it to
the black PCB and then soak in water, the clay and
toner stick leaving your artwork, and the rest falss
off...
cheers, desade


--- Brian Kraut <.....engaltKILLspamspam@spam@EARTHLINK.NET> wrote:
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2000\05\22@224254 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 05:47 PM 5/22/00 -0700, you wrote:
>hello all,
> a trick i learned was to use 60lb paper in a laser
>printer, the toner has plastic in it, and heavy bond
>ie. 60-120lb paper has clay in it, so you iron it to
>the black PCB and then soak in water, the clay and
>toner stick leaving your artwork, and the rest falss
>off...
>cheers, desade

Coated paper has a clay layer (that's the paper that's
used to make "glossy" magazines).

It should be available in letter size from paper
distributors that cater to small printing companies (the
kind that are running ancient Multiliths and similar
sheet fed offset presses).

Such paper is often heavier than regular bond, but you
can buy thin coated paper as well.

It will be very cheap from such a source.

Best regards,

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2000\05\23@164800 by Sten Dahlgren

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There is a teflon coated fiber cloth used in baking bread used instead
of
"owen paper". Hopefully you understand what i mean.

/Sten

Mark Willis wrote:
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