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'[OT] : A polite request .... I will survive if it '
2007\08\10@190436 by Cedric Chang

flavicon
face
I recently got in trouble for making jokes about global warming.
I plan to never talk about it again.
My request is thusly:  Since global warming and it's ramifications
and possible remedies are very much in dispute in a religious
kind of way, I request that no one refer to global warming as though
it were a fact, a fait accompli, a well thought out concept that  
everyone
is on board with.  If it is never mentioned again, I would be happy.
No one has to honor this request and I don't expect any responses
or desire any.

Best

Cedric

2007\08\10@191845 by Steve Howes

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face
> I recently got in trouble for making jokes about global warming.
> I plan to never talk about it again.

Nothing wrong with making a joke about a heated discussion ;) its  
just a load of hot air. Just make sure you give people a warming uh  
warning first.

2007\08\10@210720 by Rich

picon face
Well, Cedric you cannot expect everyone to believe that it is a mere
political agenda even though you and I might believe that.  Everyone has the
right to believe that the moon is made of green cheese if that appeals to
them.  But do not feel offended or imposed on by beliefs that are different
from your own, even when those beliefs seem absurd to you.  Think of the $M
that are being spent/earned by the global warming (fact/scam).  That might
be a positive thing.


{Original Message removed}

2007\08\11@103237 by John Ferrell

face picon face
All of us do not buy into the popular Global Warming hysteria.
My personal feelings are that the real data is being swamped with junk
science and hidden agendas.

The US affair with bottled water is finally falling to logic as the truth
emerges that most of it is bottled tap water and the cast off plastics are a
real problem.

Our local recycle program wants us to wash cans, jars, and bottles before we
throw them away. I cannot help but wonder how much water and energy is
wasted that way. Not to mention that most of the collected recycles go to
the landfill anyway!

The earth will continue the warming cycle until it naturally ends. Then
there will be a cooling cycle and perhaps record cold winters will fall upon
mankind. A much more likely disaster is that we will conduct warfare and
kill each other off well ahead of that happening.

In the meantime we can joke about whatever we each find humorous.

Some people just cannot take a joke...

John Ferrell    W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to plow
      around the stumps"
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2007\08\11@131529 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
Look, the PICList has a clear and long standing prohibition against the
discussion of religious subjects.

As the longest standing admin of this list, it has been my experience that
"religious" means "issues about which people have strong feelings without
having proof or compelling facts to back up those feelings"

In effect, religion is defined as strong beliefs that require faith, and
faith is believing strongly without demonstratible, reproducible facts.

Global warming has massive amounts of data which often contradict itself.
There is little domonstratible, reproducible facts. At the same time, people
feel very strongly about it. I certainly do.

In the past, when these sort of subjects have been discussed on the list,
the results are flame wars. People get angry, people post nasty, offensive
and otherwise annoying things that end up costing us members.

I see my job as one of preventing these things from getting out of hand by
"nipping them in the bud" based on my experience. Not that I don't sometimes
get swept up in it myself and break my own rules... We are all human.... And
I also have strong feelings about these subjects. I'm going to bite my
tongue here and not state them.

I would ask that other members of the list do the same. If you really need
to discuss this sort of thing, start a yahoo group, e.g. "PICList off topic"
and invite people to join that list.

When I see these threads starting, I email people off list and ask them to
stop. Depending on the day and how long it has been since I got any, I may
be more or less kind about it. If I was mean to Cedric, I apologize. I also
change the thread subject to a postscript of "KILL THREAD" and I hope people
understand that it is to stop a flame war.

Also, anyone who wants to decide what is ok, or not ok, on this list, please
join the admins. All I ask is that you commit to devoting a few minutes a
day doing the job that Herb, Josh and I do now; keeping the list in order,
helping people get on and off, sorting out bounced messages, and so on. You
will need to spend some time reading the manual for mailman if you aren't
already aware of how it works.

Unless you are willing to take the time to become a list admin, please don't
tell others what is, or is not, ok on this list? That seems fair, don't you
think?

Finally, if you have a problem with some other member on this list, please
post a note to ME or the other admins ( spam_OUTpiclist-ownersTakeThisOuTspammit.edu ) and do NOT
post your complaint on the list.

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
.....jamesnewtonKILLspamspam@spam@piclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com





> {Original Message removed}

2007\08\11@145307 by Tobias Gogolin

picon face
I think the title "global warming" is oversimplifying and misleading...
I guess it should be 'human induced climate change'
I do agree that we are in dire need to become conscious about our species
effect on global climate, while we are concentrating on tiny fragments of
the whole picture...

For example our manipulation of the water cycle I think is much more
important than how much we contribute to the creation of CO2!
Also I think there where so many more trees back then...
But now our cities are sucking up and flushing the water and in comparison
to the 'without us' state we are creating new virtual deserts everywhere!

If instead of the question weather we should invest more in renewable energy
and drive less large SUV we looked at the whole systemic problem, more of
the answers would become clear!


On 8/11/07, John Ferrell <johnferrellspamKILLspamearthlink.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2007\08\11@171902 by D. Jay Newman

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face
The problem is that "global warming" is a better phrase than "human induced
climate change".

When I speak of "global warming", I do not mean to imply that it is human-
induced.

There seems to be evidence that the global climate in indeed warming. There
seems to be an agreement that this is so. Of course, the disagreement lies
in the cause.

Some hypothethese have data showing that this has happened in the far
past, and at least one hypothesthis suggests that this effect is responsible
for some of the "extinction events" in the far past. That is, well before
humans came into the picture.

One problem with the "global warming" phrase is that it is only a part of
the problem. It's the consequences of climatic shift that are the real
problem.

And yes, I agree that we are messing up the natural water cycles and this
could also have consequences. Not to mention the consequences of the
small climate changes produced by urbanization. These, I'm sure all will
agree, are man-made problems.

{Quote hidden}

--
D. Jay Newman           ! Author of: _Linux Robotics: Building Smarter Robots_
.....jayKILLspamspam.....sprucegrove.com     ! ME? I vos travelink about. Deliverink messages.
http://enerd.ws/robots  ! Causink TROUBLE. -- a female Jaeger from Girl Genius

2007\08\12@111941 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 8/11/07, D. Jay Newman <EraseMEjayspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTsprucegrove.com> wrote:
> The problem is that "global warming" is a better phrase than "human induced
> climate change".
>
> When I speak of "global warming", I do not mean to imply that it is human-
> induced.

See how easy you tell a good joke ?
:)

I bet you wasn't been born yet in 1970-1980 for example. If you where,
then should be easy to understand for your mind what is "global
warming" and who is the author.

greetings,

2007\08\12@192144 by Jinx

face picon face
I don't normally comment on such divisive topics, but consider
this

www.dailytech.com/Blogger+finds+Y2K+bug+in+NASA+Climate+Data/article8
383.htm

If true, kind of throws a spanner in a lot pf peoples' works

2007\08\12@192955 by alan smith

picon face
wow...the things I miss when I just delete an entire thread.....

John Ferrell <johnferrellspamspam_OUTearthlink.net> wrote:  All of us do not buy into the popular Global Warming hysteria.
My personal feelings are that the real data is being swamped with junk
science and hidden agendas.

The US affair with bottled water is finally falling to logic as the truth
emerges that most of it is bottled tap water and the cast off plastics are a
real problem.

Our local recycle program wants us to wash cans, jars, and bottles before we
throw them away. I cannot help but wonder how much water and energy is
wasted that way. Not to mention that most of the collected recycles go to
the landfill anyway!

The earth will continue the warming cycle until it naturally ends. Then
there will be a cooling cycle and perhaps record cold winters will fall upon
mankind. A much more likely disaster is that we will conduct warfare and
kill each other off well ahead of that happening.

In the meantime we can joke about whatever we each find humorous.

Some people just cannot take a joke...

John Ferrell W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to plow
around the stumps"
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2007\08\14@170237 by Peter P.

picon face
Vasile Surducan <piclist9 <at> gmail.com> writes:

> See how easy you tell a good joke ?
> :)
>
> I bet you wasn't been born yet in 1970-1980 for example. If you where,
> then should be easy to understand for your mind what is "global
> warming" and who is the author.

Here I'll tell you a better joke:

A mathematician, a physicist, and an engineer were traveling through Scotland
when they saw a black sheep through the window of the train. "Aha," says the
engineer, "I see that Scottish sheep are black."
"Hmm," says the physicist, "you mean that at least one Scottish sheep is black."
"No," says the mathematician, "all we can say is that there is at least half of
a black sheep in Scotland."

Everyone knows that the climate is not getting better, but assuming
responsibility for the whole of it is a little ... optimistic. of course
everything matters, but how much ? F.ex. I know from direct experience that the
vigorous fighting against field and wood fires in 'civilized' areas has caused
the sky to become very clean. As a result, there are UV danger levels never seen
before, and animals and plants cannot read and do not use sun oil. In a normal
situation there is always a little bit of smog and carbon in the air from
natural causes, and that fixes the UV problem, and likely weather too as a
whole, at least locally. Incidentally the UV problem does not exist where
natural dust and smog levels are normal (at least at normal latitudes).

Also the cleaning cycle (by rain) is self perpetuating. In a 'dirty' atmosphere
nucleation occurs more readily and fronts tend to dump their content more
readily and evenly. In a clean one they grow to impossible sizes and then you
get huge deluges when they finally get supracritical, with large hail and
probably waterspouts. If they occur often enough they keep the atmosphere clean
and thus tend to be self-reinforcing. Of course this is just one tiny effect of
many. Reading what others have written (a lot) about gw is useful. There are no
answers but that makes the 'answers' certain activists and politicians give look
very very strange.

I am neither pro nor contra the all-gw-is-human-made *theory*. I am very contra
to everyone who says I cannot be anything else than pro. I think that various
people who speak up about gw should first read up on it. Not the c**p produced
by politicians and activists but the more scientific versions. F.ex. I have read
John Gribbins book about gw (from 1985 or so!) and it was very useful. It has
opened my eyes in many ways. There are many other books like that that must be
read to even try to understand things. Clocks for the Ages by R. Silverberg was
another useful one, and several articles about the era of the dinosaurs and
about the ice ages 'completed' the picture. There are temperature and climate
charts in those materials that will make one ask oneself, wtf did all those
activists and politicians go to school ?! Especially since every official
interpretation of gw carefully avoids mentioning them. And many are on the
curriculum for high school and so on. One assumes that activists and politicians
have kids and that they learn about dinosaurs and ice ages, yet there seems to
be no connection with present day reality. Amnesia ? Non Sequitur ?

Peter P.


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