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'[OT][meece] Robers invaded my house'
2008\11\13@134710 by Tamas Rudnai

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Is it human to kill robbers if you do not like where are - in your apartment
for example?

Anyway, they took my laptop + my backup hard drive as well, so lost quite a
few source code + personal stuff like photos etc + the nicely organized PDF
collection and other information... No matter if I took and maintain
backups, they took that one as well - I have learned the lesson, never keep
the backup and the computer at the same place...

Anyway, just thought it might be a warning for everyone doing the same.

Thanks,
Tamas

--
Rudonix DoubleSaver
http://www.rudonix.com

2008\11\13@151240 by Herbert Graf

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On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 18:46 +0000, Tamas Rudnai wrote:
> Is it human to kill robbers if you do not like where are - in your apartment
> for example?
>
> Anyway, they took my laptop + my backup hard drive as well, so lost quite a
> few source code + personal stuff like photos etc + the nicely organized PDF
> collection and other information... No matter if I took and maintain
> backups, they took that one as well - I have learned the lesson, never keep
> the backup and the computer at the same place...
>
> Anyway, just thought it might be a warning for everyone doing the same.

Wow, sorry to hear that Tamas.

FWIW it's generally criminal in many places to do anything that would
harm a person remotely, even if they're up to no good (i.e. electrifying
a windowsill).

There was a famous case of a burglar getting trapped in a garage and
suing the owner for it.

As for backups, I keep a backup in my car, and another at work (both
encrypted of course). Often the work backup is 1 or 2 backups behind,
the car one is usually up to date. As an added bonus, they've been very
useful for times my home net connection went down and I needed something
remotely.

TTYL

2008\11\13@152947 by Bob Blick

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On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:12:38 -0500, "Herbert Graf"
> FWIW it's generally criminal in many places to do anything that would
> harm a person remotely, even if they're up to no good (i.e. electrifying
> a windowsill).

Not in Texas. If the perp is on your property (and especially inside
your house), you can pretty much kill them even if you invited them in.

But then again the slogan for Texas is "It's a whole 'nother country".

Cheerful regards,

Bob "native Texan"

P.S. Untested :)


--
http://www.fastmail.fm - And now for something completely different…

2008\11\13@154430 by Herbert Graf

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On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 12:29 -0800, Bob Blick wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:12:38 -0500, "Herbert Graf"
> > FWIW it's generally criminal in many places to do anything that would
> > harm a person remotely, even if they're up to no good (i.e. electrifying
> > a windowsill).
>
> Not in Texas. If the perp is on your property (and especially inside
> your house), you can pretty much kill them even if you invited them in.
>
> But then again the slogan for Texas is "It's a whole 'nother country".

That may be true, but isn't what I was talking about. I mentioned
"remotely". What you describe is more to do with the "I felt my life was
in danger" angle, which many jurisdictions accept as a valid reason for
lethal force (i.e. I thought the guy was going to kill me, so I killed
him first).

What I describe is "lethal force to protect property". One case I read
about a while ago (can't find it right now, perhaps someone here has a
source?) dealt with a store owner that connected a 120V cord to the
inside windowsill of their store. A burglar broke the window, came in
and got electrocuted. I don't remember what exactly happened, whether
the burglar died or not, but I do remember that the shop owner was in
deep "do-do".

There are places where this sort of thing is probably permitted though.

TTYL

2008\11\13@163207 by Jinx

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> Not in Texas. If the perp is on your property (and especially inside
> your house), you can pretty much kill them even if you invited them in

There was the case not so long ago of the Texan man who shot people
on his neighbours' lawn. He was holding a loaded shotgun and talking to
911 dispatch at the time

Google texas neighbor shotgun

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/17/national/main3517564.shtml?source=mostpop_story

Includes transcript of 911 call

2008\11\13@170546 by Danny Miller

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Sometimes described as "man-traps", unattended weapons that harm a
person are totally different than a weapon used by the owner directly
and carry a different legal standing.

Back in the old days, people would (well, some nut cases still do)
protect property with guns on tripwires.  These are comparable to
landmines and are equally harmful to lawful and unlawful alike.  
Electrifying a windowsill is no different.  You could die in your sleep
and the cops (or your relatives) try to get in through that window and
it could kill them just the same.

Oddly enough some visibly obvious threats are permissible.  Concertina
razor wire on top of a fence is ok.  But not a line of sharp pungee
sticks under a window with a sign saying "Danger:  Pungee sticks".

Danny

Herbert Graf wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\11\13@172701 by John Ferrell

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>From the Concealed Carry Course(North Carolina):
One of the most important rules one must understand in the State of North
Carolina is that you are not legally entitled to use deadly force (or
assault) merely to protect property.  You are entitled to protect yourself
or others. You may be faced with the burden of proof.

I recall from somewhere:
I believe that "Mantraps" are universally illegal in the US. It is not
necessary for you to hurt someone to be prosecuted.
John Ferrell    W8CCW

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Edmund Burke
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2008\11\13@181550 by Tamas Rudnai

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Sorry, I was not clear, I was not at home when they came in, I just felt
that if I was I would harm them badly.

Anyway, the good news is that it turned out they did NOT take my backup
drive!!! I was underneath the mess and I am so glad that I found it. I did
not want to touch the stuff here as the forensics coming only tomorrow
morning (hey, it's Ireland), but then I realized I have to go into my bed
somehow so I moved some stuff on the way, and here we go, I have the backup
drive, so after all I did not loose too much data.

I can't describe how much glad I am! Anyway, I have learned the lesson even
if I was a lucky bastard this time  :-)

Thanks guys,
Tamas




On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:27 PM, John Ferrell <spam_OUTjohnferrellTakeThisOuTspamearthlink.net>wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2008\11\13@184631 by apptech

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> As for backups, I keep a backup in my car, and another at work (both
> encrypted of course). Often the work backup is 1 or 2 backups behind,
> the car one is usually up to date. As an added bonus, they've been very
> useful for times my home net connection went down and I needed something
> remotely.

Open a GMail account (or yet another one).
email files as attachments to it.
When they go bust there are greater things to worry about :-)

  R

2008\11\13@184633 by apptech

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>> Not in Texas. If the perp is on your property (and especially inside
>> your house), you can pretty much kill them even if you invited them in.
>>
>> But then again the slogan for Texas is "It's a whole 'nother country".

In NZ if you *believe* that you are at risk of being killed you may respond
in self defence. Causing death can be legally defensible in such
circumstances. In any other case you have to help them carry the stuff out.
In several recent cases people fired at fleeing theieves or would be thieves
and were charged with typically attempted murder. One unsuccessful robber
was shot from behind while fleeing by a 'warning shot'. He was charged once
they saved his life but the shooter underwent extended court processes.


  R

2008\11\13@190825 by Dave Tweed

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apptech wrote:
> > As for backups, I keep a backup in my car, and another at work (both
> > encrypted of course). Often the work backup is 1 or 2 backups behind,
> > the car one is usually up to date. As an added bonus, they've been very
> > useful for times my home net connection went down and I needed something
> > remotely.
>
> Open a GMail account (or yet another one).
> email files as attachments to it.
> When they go bust there are greater things to worry about :-)

Even better:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GmailFS

-- Dave Tweed

2008\11\13@194955 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 7:25 AM, apptech <.....apptechKILLspamspam@spam@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> Open a GMail account (or yet another one).
> email files as attachments to it.
> When they go bust there are greater things to worry about :-)

Who knows for certain in the uncertain time? :-)

Xiaofan

2008\11\13@195151 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Dave Tweed <picspamKILLspamdtweed.com> wrote:
> apptech wrote:
>> > As for backups, I keep a backup in my car, and another at work (both
>> > encrypted of course). Often the work backup is 1 or 2 backups behind,
>> > the car one is usually up to date. As an added bonus, they've been very
>> > useful for times my home net connection went down and I needed something
>> > remotely.
>>
>> Open a GMail account (or yet another one).
>> email files as attachments to it.
>> When they go bust there are greater things to worry about :-)
>
> Even better:
>
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GmailFS
>

And the wiki page says 'Consequently, GmailFS should not be
considered reliable for backup purposes". ;-)

Xiaofan

2008\11\14@015333 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Nov 13, 2008, at 4:51 PM, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> the wiki page says 'Consequently, GmailFS should not be
> considered reliable for backup purposes". ;-)

These days, I don't consider ANY single technology reliable enough for  
"backup purposes" of really critical data, and I'd really like to find  
a backup application that keeps track of what I consider  
"required." (why yes, those family pictures are on two sets of DVD-Rs,  
and the backup hard drive, and on other other computer's disk, and the  
second backup hard drive in the safe deposit box, and on picasaweb as  
well.  All in good shape!)

The flip side is that I'm not really sure that I have any "really  
critical data."  Losing the picture collection to a burglary would  
surely suck, though...

BillW

2008\11\14@031355 by Picbits Sales

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face
> Open a GMail account (or yet another one).
> email files as attachments to it.
> When they go bust there are greater things to worry about :-)
>
>   R

I did this with Hotmail. Emailled some expensive software I purchased  to
myself in case I lost the original.

The worst came to the worst the other day and I needed to reinstall the
software. Went to my Hotmail and found it had blocked the attachment (.exe).
There appears no way of getting it back either.

Hey ho .....

2008\11\14@164542 by cdb

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:: The worst came to the worst the other day and I needed to reinstall
:: the
:: software. Went to my Hotmail and found it had blocked the
:: attachment (.exe).
:: There appears no way of getting it back either.

Depending on your email client, check in either your sent or
attachments folder - the program may still be lurking.

Colin
--
cdb, .....colinKILLspamspam.....btech-online.co.uk on 15/11/2008

Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

Hosted by:  http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359







2008\11\14@175019 by Picbits Sales

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----- Original Message -----
From: "cdb" <EraseMEcolinspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTbtech-online.co.uk>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistspamspam_OUTmit.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [OT][meece] Robers invaded my house


{Quote hidden}

Indeed it probably is - as well as the original .exe file on the original
machine the email was sent from .......

Its at another location but when I get round to it I'll copy it onto the new
server I've installed so its handily available again.

Dom

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