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'[OT][EE] How Easy To Use Is Python?'
2007\08\12@193618 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
I need to make a few programs that will stand alone and run under
Windoze 2K/XP and can be made into a Linux version with minimal
or NO expense to my client..

It has to have the ability to talk to PC Serial ports  and VCP (emulated
serial ports, like under USB<>RS232 converters).

I have been told that Python 2.51 works great like this. Is it true? Anybody
using it?

--Bob Axtell

2007\08\12@195025 by Bob Blick

face picon face
How about Visual Basic 6 under Windows and Gambas 2 under Linux?

Bob Axtell wrote:
> I need to make a few programs that will stand alone and run under
> Windoze 2K/XP and can be made into a Linux version with minimal
> or NO expense to my client..
>
> It has to have the ability to talk to PC Serial ports  and VCP (emulated
> serial ports, like under USB<>RS232 converters).
>
> I have been told that Python 2.51 works great like this. Is it true? Anybody
> using it?

2007\08\12@200716 by Zik Saleeba

face picon face
I've used python quite a bit and it is very portable and nice to
program in. I think it's probably the nicest language I've worked with
actually. I can't comment on the serial side of things as I haven't
used it in python.

Cheers,
Zik

On 8/13/07, Bob Axtell <spam_OUTengineerTakeThisOuTspamcotse.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\08\12@205441 by Jake Anderson

flavicon
face
Bob Axtell wrote:
> I need to make a few programs that will stand alone and run under
> Windoze 2K/XP and can be made into a Linux version with minimal
> or NO expense to my client..
>
> It has to have the ability to talk to PC Serial ports  and VCP (emulated
> serial ports, like under USB<>RS232 converters).
>
> I have been told that Python 2.51 works great like this. Is it true? Anybody
> using it?
>
> --Bob Axtell
>  
I have some python stuff that works fine in both Linux and windows and
uses the serial port.
The hardest part I have found is python by default lacks a "byte" type
variable, which can make communications with little micro's more
difficult. I did find a method of doing the conversion but its not
pretty and might need to be changed if it runs on 64bit hardware (I
didn't look into it too far i was more interested in the hardware lol)
I have seen a module out there that seems to be designed for making
packets of data (like IP datagrams) in any format you like which might
make things much easier.

As far as UI type stuff wxPython is really nice and quite easy to use,
the "style" is a little cluttered in it for legacy reasons
(capitalisation and the like can be all over the place), it uses native
widgets for whatever platform its on so in windows it looks like a
windows program and in Linux it looks like Linux.

You might need to do a little work for cross platform but mainly only
things like where files are saved by default IE vista wont let programs
save config changes in their own program directory without running with
admin privileges. Which can make changing an ini file a hassle.

2007\08\12@210207 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 8/13/07, Bob Axtell <.....engineerKILLspamspam@spam@cotse.net> wrote:
> I need to make a few programs that will stand alone and run under
> Windoze 2K/XP and can be made into a Linux version with minimal
> or NO expense to my client..
>
> It has to have the ability to talk to PC Serial ports  and VCP (emulated
> serial ports, like under USB<>RS232 converters).
>
> I have been told that Python 2.51 works great like this. Is it true? Anybody
> using it?
>

Python should be ok. You can use pyserial which works under
Windows and Linux.

The VCP things can be tricky under Linux.  Some of them do not work
well under Linux, especially the PL2303 or similar chips.

If you use FTDI, you can even use pyusb (http://bleyer.org/pyusb/) under
Windows. This  pyusb is different from another pyusb which is a python
wrapper for libusb.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2007\08\12@213057 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
What modules do you use for Serial Port usage? were they "addon"
modules, or does Python
have something internal for serial ports?

--Bob A

Jake Anderson wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\08\12@213449 by John La Rooy

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face
On 8/13/07, Jake Anderson <jakespamKILLspamvapourforge.com> wrote:
> I have seen a module out there that seems to be designed for making
> packets of data (like IP datagrams) in any format you like which might
> make things much easier.
>

Are you thinking of the struct module?
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-struct.html

John La Rooy

2007\08\12@214722 by Jake Anderson

flavicon
face
Bob Axtell wrote:
> What modules do you use for Serial Port usage? were they "addon"
> modules, or does Python
> have something internal for serial ports?
>
> --Bob A
>  
addon
pyserial I believe.
its use is pretty simple basically just open the port and call a
function with what you want to send.
Actually it just struck me a simpler way of assembling the data to send
as a packet. just make sure the value of any given number is < 255 then
append it to a string. Then just send the string.
easy as lol, thanks :->

2007\08\12@215703 by John La Rooy

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face
On 8/13/07, Bob Axtell <.....engineerKILLspamspam.....cotse.net> wrote:
> What modules do you use for Serial Port usage? were they "addon"
> modules, or does Python
> have something internal for serial ports?
>
> --Bob A

Python has enough built in modules to do it all, for instance termios,
fcntl in linux, but you'll probably end up writing something similar
to pyserial anyway.

http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/

John La Rooy

2007\08\12@224718 by John Chung

picon face

I would still stick to C++ and C. Probably Java*when
C++ and C is not adequate*.... Anyway just use a
language you are comfortable with.

John


--- Bob Blick <EraseMEbbblickspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTsbcglobal.net> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2007\08\12@225320 by Jake Anderson

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face
John La Rooy wrote:
> On 8/13/07, Jake Anderson <jakespamspam_OUTvapourforge.com> wrote:
>  
>> I have seen a module out there that seems to be designed for making
>> packets of data (like IP datagrams) in any format you like which might
>> make things much easier.
>>
>>    
>
> Are you thinking of the struct module?
> http://docs.python.org/lib/module-struct.html
>
> John La Rooy
>  
That's what I'm using now to convert to a 16 bit value.
This other module (cant remember the name) basically you defined a class
and set subclasses to define all the bits and bobs you wanted in your
packet.
Then you set the values for all your subclasses and such like
(foo.left_motor_drive = 23) and it goes away and assembles everything
how you want it with everything having the right number of bits/bytes etc.


here's a sample program that sends the value received on the command
line out the first serial port at 38400bps using struct and pyserial

import sys
import serial
import struct
import time

ser = serial.Serial(0)  #open first serial port
print ser.portstr       #check which port was really used
ser.baudrate = 38400
pwm_val = int(sys.argv[1]) #get pwm value from command line
print pwm_val
ser.write(struct.pack('H',pwm_val)) #send data packed into a small int
(2 bytes)
ser.close()             #close port

2007\08\13@000509 by John La Rooy

flavicon
face
On 8/13/07, John Chung <@spam@kravnusKILLspamspamyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I would still stick to C++ and C. Probably Java*when
> C++ and C is not adequate*.... Anyway just use a
> language you are comfortable with.
>
> John
>
Perhaps you could suggest which serial libraries/modules/packages
to use with windows/linux for those languages.

Some people find Python very easy to pick up, and much faster to
develop with, so overall it may save time

John La Rooy

{Quote hidden}

2007\08\13@003345 by John Chung

picon face

--- John La Rooy <RemoveMEpiclist.jlrTakeThisOuTspamlarooy.com> wrote:

> On 8/13/07, John Chung <spamBeGonekravnusspamBeGonespamyahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > I would still stick to C++ and C. Probably
> Java*when
> > C++ and C is not adequate*.... Anyway just use a
> > language you are comfortable with.
> >
> > John
> >
> Perhaps you could suggest which serial
> libraries/modules/packages
> to use with windows/linux for those languages.
>

Programming using C in Linux.
tldp.org/HOWTO/Serial-Programming-HOWTO/index.html
Programming in Windows using C
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms810467.aspx

I have to admit I am familar to Windows and Linux
system api.

John


     
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2007\08\13@012313 by Nate Duehr

face
flavicon
face

On Aug 12, 2007, at 6:53 PM, Jake Anderson wrote:

> The hardest part I have found is python by default lacks a "byte" type
> variable, which can make communications with little micro's more
> difficult.

Isn't one of the highly touted "features" of python, the ability to  
overload and/or add methods to various operators in the syntax,  
yourself?

It seems odd that someone, somewhere, hasn't just hacked together a  
library that would overload the default types and add in "byte"  
already, if my understanding of the language's capabilities is correct.

--
Nate Duehr
TakeThisOuTnateEraseMEspamspam_OUTnatetech.com



2007\08\13@020447 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Aug 12, 2007, at 9:05 PM, John La Rooy wrote:

>> I would still stick to C++ and C

> Perhaps you could suggest which serial libraries/modules/packages
> to use with windows/linux for those languages.

A lot of things can get away with just reading/writing the
appropriate device (/dev/tty05 or COM6: or whatever) as a
standard file.  Much of the rest may get away with "standardized"
use of ioctl on such "files."  I'm not sure when you'd need
to start considering a special purpose library; it's all legacy
technology...

BillW

2007\08\13@023117 by Jake Anderson

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face
Nate Duehr wrote:
> On Aug 12, 2007, at 6:53 PM, Jake Anderson wrote:
>
>  
>> The hardest part I have found is python by default lacks a "byte" type
>> variable, which can make communications with little micro's more
>> difficult.
>>    
>
> Isn't one of the highly touted "features" of python, the ability to  
> overload and/or add methods to various operators in the syntax,  
> yourself?
>
> It seems odd that someone, somewhere, hasn't just hacked together a  
> library that would overload the default types and add in "byte"  
> already, if my understanding of the language's capabilities is correct.
>  
I haven't looked into it too deeply i have mainly used it for desktop
stuff, I think the problem is python tries to get rid of types as much
as possible. IE automagically changing from ints to long and arbritary
length ints as required. The only real time you deal with "types"
directly is when you are joining a number and a string or things of that
nature. For most things you just assign a value to a variable and python
works out how to deal with it, no worries about range or platform or
whatever (its lovley lol).

2007\08\13@040825 by Rikard Bosnjakovic

picon face
On 13/08/07, Jake Anderson <RemoveMEjakespamTakeThisOuTvapourforge.com> wrote:

> The hardest part I have found is python by default lacks a "byte" type
> variable, which can make communications with little micro's more
> difficult

Shouldn't be of too much trouble if you use the struct-module (in the
standard library bundle).

--
- Rikard - http://bos.hack.org/cv/

2007\08\13@043340 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I would still stick to C++ and C. Probably Java*when
>C++ and C is not adequate*.... Anyway just use a
>language you are comfortable with.

Depending on programming style, another possibility would be Borlands Delphi
and its Linux companion that I cannot remember the name of, if one wished to
do Pascal style programming.

2007\08\13@044717 by soliton

picon face
On 8/13/07, Alan B. Pearce <A.B.PearceEraseMEspam.....rl.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >I would still stick to C++ and C. Probably Java*when
> >C++ and C is not adequate*.... Anyway just use a
> >language you are comfortable with.
>
> Depending on programming style, another possibility would be Borlands
> Delphi
> and its Linux companion that I cannot remember the name of, if one wished
> to
> do Pascal style programming.
>

It is Kylix, Borland Delphi in Linux. :)


--
soliton

2007\08\13@052126 by stef mientki

flavicon
face
Bob Axtell wrote:
> I need to make a few programs that will stand alone and run under
> Windoze 2K/XP and can be made into a Linux version with minimal
> or NO expense to my client..
>
> It has to have the ability to talk to PC Serial ports  and VCP (emulated
> serial ports, like under USB<>RS232 converters).
>
> I have been told that Python 2.51 works great like this. Is it true? Anybody
> using it?
>
> --Bob Axtell
>  
Python might be a very good choice.
As a exercise in Python I'm now writing a PIC simulator in Python,
which should be capable of mixed simulation: analog / digital / virtual
/ real world.
You can see some recorded movies here:
 
http://oase.uci.kun.nl/~mientki/data_www/pic/jalspy/jalspy_animated_demos.html

The most difficult part is choosing the graphical interface, (too many
choices),
as this influences the choice of the Python version and IDE.
At the moment the best graphical package seems to be wxPython,
(very good support group),
which limits your choice of Python version to 2.4 or 2.5.
The best IDE (for GUI) seems to be Dabo, PyScripter or SPE.

cheers,
Stef Mientki

2007\08\13@053131 by Jake Anderson

flavicon
face
Rikard Bosnjakovic wrote:
> On 13/08/07, Jake Anderson <EraseMEjakespamvapourforge.com> wrote:
>
>  
>> The hardest part I have found is python by default lacks a "byte" type
>> variable, which can make communications with little micro's more
>> difficult
>>    
>
> Shouldn't be of too much trouble if you use the struct-module (in the
> standard library bundle).
>
>  
I do but its not "pythonic" it feels like a hack to use it somewhat. And
if i read it correctly its behaviour is different on 32bit vs 64?

2007\08\13@055618 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>It is Kylix, Borland Delphi in Linux. :)

That is the one. No experience with it, but the concept seems good.

2007\08\13@060856 by Chris Emerson

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face
On Mon, Aug 13, 2007 at 09:02:02AM +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> On 8/13/07, Bob Axtell <RemoveMEengineerEraseMEspamEraseMEcotse.net> wrote:
> The VCP things can be tricky under Linux.  Some of them do not work
> well under Linux, especially the PL2303 or similar chips.

A pl2303-based USB<->serial adapter works pretty well for me under Linux
with the driver in the stock kernel...

Cheers,

Chris

2007\08\13@072518 by rlistas

picon face
Hi Bob;

Give a look at http://www.rapideuphoria.com.

And here, an example of a simple serial
comunications program using Pcomm.
http://www.rapideuphoria.com/cgi-bin/asearch.exu?dos=on&win=on&lnx=on&gen=on&keywords=pcomm


regards,

Rubens

At 20:36 12/8/2007, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2007\08\13@074158 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Alan B. Pearce wrote:
>> It is Kylix, Borland Delphi in Linux. :)
>>    
>
> That is the one. No experience with it, but the concept seems good.
>  
Actually, Delphi has been my choice for years. I have been a Pascal man
since Borland Pascal 3
for DOS, about 1985.

But Delphi's support is no longer there, and the newer Delphi versions
seem to have large amounts
of bugs, and the costs to purchase are enormous. Even locating new
packages of D6 (Delphi 6, circa
2000) cost over $900 USD. I believe its OK to make a profit, its just
too expensive to my clients, who
are pushing me with Python.

--Bob A

2007\08\13@075534 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
rlistas wrote:
> Hi Bob;
>
> Give a look at http://www.rapideuphoria.com.
>
> And here, an example of a simple serial
> comunications program using Pcomm.
> http://www.rapideuphoria.com/cgi-bin/asearch.exu?dos=on&win=on&lnx=on&gen=on&keywords=pcomm
>
>
> regards,
>
> Rubens
>
>  
Gosh, what an interesting language! Since most of my tasks are simple
RS232, this might be the best approach...

Thanks for the tip!

--Bob A

2007\08\13@091055 by peter green

flavicon
face
soliton wrote:
> On 8/13/07, Alan B. Pearce <RemoveMEA.B.Pearcespam_OUTspamKILLspamrl.ac.uk> wrote:
>  
>>> I would still stick to C++ and C. Probably Java*when
>>> C++ and C is not adequate*.... Anyway just use a
>>> language you are comfortable with.
>>>      
>> Depending on programming style, another possibility would be Borlands
>> Delphi
>> and its Linux companion that I cannot remember the name of, if one wished
>> to
>> do Pascal style programming.
>>
>>    
>
> It is Kylix, Borland Delphi in Linux. :)
>
>
>  
and it is a dead project. It relies on GTK1 which is on its way out and
I belive it also has issues with modern kernels/

there is also the free pascal lazarus project but that is far from mature.

2007\08\13@094339 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Bob Axtell wrote:

> It has to have the ability to talk to PC Serial ports  and VCP (emulated
> serial ports, like under USB<>RS232 converters).
>
> I have been told that Python 2.51 works great like this. Is it true? Anybody
> using it?

IIRC, Wouter's programmer software is in Python and uses the serial port.
Might give you an idea how this can look like.

Gerhard

2007\08\13@100141 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 8/13/07, Gerhard Fiedler <RemoveMElistsTakeThisOuTspamspamconnectionbrazil.com> wrote:
> Bob Axtell wrote:
>
> > It has to have the ability to talk to PC Serial ports  and VCP (emulated
> > serial ports, like under USB<>RS232 converters).
> >
> > I have been told that Python 2.51 works great like this. Is it true? Anybody
> > using it?
>
> IIRC, Wouter's programmer software is in Python and uses the serial port.
> Might give you an idea how this can look like.

But I have to point out that xwisp2 works better with cross-platform
serial API in C (even OS/2).
http://www.robh.nl/picsoft.php

Regards,
Xiaofan

2007\08\13@101948 by Tony Smith

picon face
> You might need to do a little work for cross platform but
> mainly only things like where files are saved by default IE
> vista wont let programs save config changes in their own
> program directory without running with admin privileges.
> Which can make changing an ini file a hassle.


That's interesting.  Still, not a bad thing as it might encourage people to
'do it right', and put that stuff in %appdata%.  (I'm assuming Vista lets
you play in there.)

Nah, that won't happen  :)

Tony

2007\08\13@110404 by Jake Anderson

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face
Tony Smith wrote:
>> You might need to do a little work for cross platform but
>> mainly only things like where files are saved by default IE
>> vista wont let programs save config changes in their own
>> program directory without running with admin privileges.
>> Which can make changing an ini file a hassle.
>>    
>
>
> That's interesting.  Still, not a bad thing as it might encourage people to
> 'do it right', and put that stuff in %appdata%.  (I'm assuming Vista lets
> you play in there.)
>
> Nah, that won't happen  :)
>
> Tony
>
>  
It actually lets the program think its writing there but silently shifts
it to somewhere in the users directory.
Makes for an incredibly frustrated system admin (IE - ME) when you
change a setting and nothing smegging happens.

2007\08\13@114352 by Tony Smith

picon face
{Quote hidden}

That's ok, sort of.

Looks like it shifts it to the \Applications Data folder for you (as a
bonus, it's a hidden folder).  Possibly better than the alternative, which
is not working.  On the gripping hand, 'that's the way we've always done it'
works too.

I like the idea of splitting the app & its settings (I prefer .ini over the
registry), it makes backups much simpler.  I have noticed the %appdata%
folder becoming a bit more populated of late.

Tony

Tony

2007\08\13@133834 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
> Bob Axtell wrote:
>
>  
>> It has to have the ability to talk to PC Serial ports  and VCP (emulated
>> serial ports, like under USB<>RS232 converters).
>>
>> I have been told that Python 2.51 works great like this. Is it true? Anybody
>> using it?
>>    
>
> IIRC, Wouter's programmer software is in Python and uses the serial port.
> Might give you an idea how this can look like.
>
> Gerhard
>
>  
Yes, I sent him a personal email some days ago, but no answer. I think
he is on holiday.

--Bob

2007\08\13@172853 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Tony Smith wrote:

>>>> You might need to do a little work for cross platform but mainly only
>>>> things like where files are saved by default IE vista wont let
>>>> programs save config changes in their own program directory without
>>>> running with admin privileges. Which can make changing an ini file a
>>>> hassle.

That's nothing new to Vista; this has been this way since Win2k, IIRC. You
had to be in the Administrator or Power User groups to have write access to
the program files tree.

Maybe new to Vista is that more users do not run as admins. But that's a
good thing if anything.

{Quote hidden}

Yes, this is a good thing IMO too. Better yet would be if the location
could be more easily configured -- and of course if more application
programmers would think about a user who is not running as admin on his
machine.

Gerhard

2007\08\13@213433 by Jake Anderson

flavicon
face
Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
> Tony Smith wrote:
>
>  
>>>>> You might need to do a little work for cross platform but mainly only
>>>>> things like where files are saved by default IE vista wont let
>>>>> programs save config changes in their own program directory without
>>>>> running with admin privileges. Which can make changing an ini file a
>>>>> hassle.
>>>>>          
>
> That's nothing new to Vista; this has been this way since Win2k, IIRC. You
> had to be in the Administrator or Power User groups to have write access to
> the program files tree.
>  
I've always been in power users, otherwise you had to login as admin
every 20 seconds to do anything.
Some things don't like "run as".
{Quote hidden}

I'd prefer it if it wasn't silent. Silently moving things is just wrong.
You should get asked how you want to handle the situation. The offending
program was eagle it took me about 2 hours to work out why when i
changed a library then copied it to the network drive I couldn't see the
change.

2007\08\14@090518 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Jake Anderson wrote:

>>>>>> You might need to do a little work for cross platform but mainly
>>>>>> only things like where files are saved by default IE vista wont let
>>>>>> programs save config changes in their own program directory without
>>>>>> running with admin privileges. Which can make changing an ini file
>>>>>> a hassle.
>>
>> That's nothing new to Vista; this has been this way since Win2k, IIRC.
>> You had to be in the Administrator or Power User groups to have write
>> access to the program files tree.
>>
> I've always been in power users, otherwise you had to login as admin
> every 20 seconds to do anything. Some things don't like "run as".

Right. The problem are really the programmers who don't understand the
concept of separation between programs and data, and the different
respective permissions involved, and who never ever read much documentation
about the system for which they are programming. This is nothing new; AFAIK
it's more than 10 years old, and some still don't know it.


{Quote hidden}

Yes, I understand this frustration. OTOH, are you sure that it wasn't
CadSoft who changed the location where they store the settings when running
under Vista? How can you tell that it is Vista and not the program?

Gerhard

2007\08\14@121752 by Jake Anderson

flavicon
face

> Right. The problem are really the programmers who don't understand the
> concept of separation between programs and data, and the different
> respective permissions involved, and who never ever read much documentation
> about the system for which they are programming. This is nothing new; AFAIK
> it's more than 10 years old, and some still don't know it.
>
>  
The problem is some software is more than 10 years old. And/or the
original writers aren't around any more.
Its not like a car, people don't come along ripping up the road then
saying your car isn't compatible with the new road any more.
That bugs me and in large part there's no alternative. That bugs me more.
(That's why I'm using python to write the replacement software for the
particular "car" that my clients have problems with, once they move to
linux my support times will drop)
{Quote hidden}

Because the origional libraries (as installed) were still in c:\program
files
The altered libraries were buried somewhere in the app data folder (in
the place microsoft said to look for where it silently moves things).
Its not insurmountable but it is still frustrating.

2007\08\14@132730 by peter green

flavicon
face

> Because the origional libraries (as installed) were still in c:\program
> files
> The altered libraries were buried somewhere in the app data folder (in
> the place microsoft said to look for where it silently moves things).
> Its not insurmountable but it is still frustrating.
>  
MS was stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one. Users running
as admin all the time was a lot of what earnt them thier bad security
reputation but the only way to make things usable as non admin was to
put in hacks to deal with the old software that didn't do things properly.


2007\08\14@190250 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Jake Anderson wrote:

>> Right. The problem are really the programmers who don't understand the
>> concept of separation between programs and data, and the different
>> respective permissions involved, and who never ever read much documentation
>> about the system for which they are programming. This is nothing new; AFAIK
>> it's more than 10 years old, and some still don't know it.
>>  
> The problem is some software is more than 10 years old. And/or the
> original writers aren't around any more.

Now, come on... Last time I checked, CadSoft was still around, publishing
updates and making money with their product. Ten plus years should have
been enough to implement a separation between program and data. That's not
rocket science (or embedded programming :)

If OTOH you're talking about some other software that was written for Win9x
or even Win3.x or MS-DOS, and it still runs on Vista, you should be glad...


> Its not like a car, people don't come along ripping up the road then
> saying your car isn't compatible with the new road any more.

Not exactly that, but something along a better analogy. The first car I
bought in the US was an old Pontiac station wagon, and I bought it in Ohio.
At the time it was made, it was perfectly legal both in CA and in OH. At
the time I bought it, it was still legal in OH, but when I moved to CA, I
had to sell it. CA had in the meantime changed the emissions regulations.
And I couldn't get an upgrade from GM (like you may get from CadSoft :)


> That bugs me and in large part there's no alternative.

Alternative 1 may be not to run Vista. I think so far there are few reasons
that really make you use Vista. Alternative 2 may be to get CadSoft's
latest version (if that fixes things). Alternative 3 may be to let CadSoft
know that their paying customers would like software that's written
according to the specs of the system it's written for. (Maybe they could
document this behavior, if they didn't and don't want to fix it and add it
to their Vista FAQ <http://www.cadsoftusa.com/faq.htm#22020701>.) It's not
always the system that's at fault when an app does weird things.

> (That's why I'm using python to write the replacement software for the
> particular "car" that my clients have problems with, once they move to
> linux my support times will drop)

Possibly, but then maybe partly because people who run Linux wouldn't
accept applications that write their data just anywhere. And if the app
doesn't have write permissions on Linux for the place where it wants to
store data, the system doesn't prompt either and lets the user choose where
to put the data... :)

Gerhard

2007\08\19@093013 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> I need to make a few programs that will stand alone and run
> under Windoze 2K/XP and can be made into a Linux version with
> minimal or NO expense to my client..
>
> It has to have the ability to talk to PC Serial ports  and
> VCP (emulated serial ports, like under USB<>RS232 converters).
>
> I have been told that Python 2.51 works great like this. Is
> it true? Anybody using it?

(I saw you also asked me privately, but I'll respond here)

XWisp works that way. I wrote it and use it on Windows, but I got
reports from all kinds of Linux (including Mac) users that it works OK
for them. The drawback is that on Windows you need to install Python and
the Win32 extensions, which is a bit tedious for an end-user.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\08\19@104427 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
wouter van ooijen wrote:

>> I need to make a few programs that will stand alone and run under
>> Windoze 2K/XP and can be made into a Linux version with minimal or NO
>> expense to my client..
>>
>> It has to have the ability to talk to PC Serial ports  and VCP
>> (emulated serial ports, like under USB<>RS232 converters).
>>
>> I have been told that Python 2.51 works great like this. Is it true?
>> Anybody using it?

> XWisp works that way. I wrote it and use it on Windows, but I got reports
> from all kinds of Linux (including Mac) users that it works OK for them.
> The drawback is that on Windows you need to install Python and the Win32
> extensions, which is a bit tedious for an end-user.

I think there is a way to create a stand-alone Win32 .exe file from Python
sources. I've never done it, but it didn't look too complicated when I
looked into it.

Gerhard

2007\08\19@112303 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> Python has enough built in modules to do it all, for instance
> termios, fcntl in linux, but you'll probably end up writing
> something similar to pyserial anyway.
> http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/

*writing*? why not *using*!

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\08\19@120115 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
wouter van ooijen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Thanks, Wouter.

Yes, I did send a note before any of the others. But I got the info I
needed.
I am trying Euphoria right now; if it doesn't do the job, I'll drop back
to Python.

--Bob A

2007\08\19@121642 by rlistas

picon face
Hi Bob,

If you need help with Euphoria, just write directly to me.

Good Luck,


Rubens

At 12:59 19/8/2007, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2007\08\19@130304 by Ruben Jönsson

flavicon
face
Hi,

> I am trying Euphoria right now; if it doesn't do the job, I'll drop back
> to Python.
>
> --Bob A
> --

I have been following this thread and also got interested in Euphoria. Could
You share your experience when done?

/Regards Ruben


==============================
Ruben Jönsson
AB Liros Electronic
Box 9124, 200 39 Malmö, Sweden
TEL INT +46 40142078
FAX INT +46 40947388
EraseMErubenspamspamspamBeGonepp.sbbs.se
==============================

2007\08\19@131143 by Paul Hutchinson

picon face
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu On Behalf Of Gerhard Fiedler
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:44 AM
>
<snip>
>
> I think there is a way to create a stand-alone Win32 .exe file from Python
> sources. I've never done it, but it didn't look too complicated when I
> looked into it.

I've done it and it was not difficult. There is one catch, the resulting exe
requires a MS licensed DLL so, to distribute your complete package you must
have the redistribution license from the MS tool (VisC++ .NET 2005, IIRC).

Paul

>
> Gerhard

2007\08\19@151035 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> I think there is a way to create a stand-alone Win32 .exe
> file from Python sources. I've never done it, but it didn't
> look too complicated when I looked into it.

You can create a single .exe, but it needs a 'support' directory with a
few Mb of files (including the Python interpreter wrapped in a .dll).

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\08\20@102052 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Ruben Jönsson wrote:
> Hi,
>
>  
>> I am trying Euphoria right now; if it doesn't do the job, I'll drop back
>> to Python.
>>
>> --Bob A
>> --
>>    
>
> I have been following this thread and also got interested in Euphoria. Could
> You share your experience when done?
>
>  
Hi, Ruben,

It seems to work well with DOS (or in XP, on the CMD prompt). Data types
are ATOMS and SEQUENCES,
pretty strange, but it seems to work.

I am trying to switch to Windows GUI, having install problems right now.

--Bob

2007\08\20@110732 by Hector Martin

flavicon
face
Bob Axtell wrote:
> I need to make a few programs that will stand alone and run under
> Windoze 2K/XP and can be made into a Linux version with minimal
> or NO expense to my client..

Use Python 2.5, or Python2.4 if you want to support older versions.
Pretty much every Linux distro will include at least Python2.4. For
Windows, use py2exe.

> It has to have the ability to talk to PC Serial ports  and VCP (emulated
> serial ports, like under USB<>RS232 converters).

Add on pyserial, and pywin32 for the Windows versions. Once you use
py2exe, it all gets packed up into a small self-contained directory with
a .exe to run the program.

> I have been told that Python 2.51 works great like this. Is it true? Anybody
> using it?

I've done it for a bootloader application for a project. I used 2.4,
mainly because I didn't feel like upgrading my own system to 2.5. Of
course, it runs under 2.5 as well, it's just that I had to code around
some features of 2.5 that I didn't get to use use. It worked well.


--
Hector Martin (hectorSTOPspamspamspam_OUTmarcansoft.com)
Public Key: http://www.marcansoft.com/marcan.asc

2007\08\20@150722 by Ruben Jönsson

flavicon
face
Hi,

OK, thanks. Will put it on my to try list (which seems to be growing for every
day).

/Ruben


{Quote hidden}

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