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'[OT][EE] Electric/Hybrid or not?'
2007\12\05@171829 by Funny NYPD

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You may also want to say GM also has killed the hybrid.
Because without hybrid, GM's SUV runs 13MPG, with hybrid it runs 13.5-14 MPG. GM doesn't see the value on its SUV product with all those high cost and dangerous high-voltages on Hybrids.

So you will claim the killing of hybrid to Honda: Honda just cancelled the hybrid Accord this year. Since without hybrid, the Accord runs 24MPG, with hybrid, it runs 26MPG. Honda feels it doesn't make sense to customer if they keep making it.

Honda's engineer still confused how Toyota achieved 40-60-80MPG on their vehicles while their vehicle and GM¢s vehicle cannot achieve those good numbers? On the real world, or just on the test bench on cruised speed?

BTW, there are some VW diesel vehicles does achieve 40-60MPG fuel economy with good emissions. My friend¢s GEO metro with gasoline engine can also achieve 40-50-60MPG easily, it has 120K miles and the engine still runs good. Chevy just doesn¢t make this anymore.


Funny N.
New Bedford, MA
http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com



{Original Message removed}

2007\12\05@181403 by Bob Blick

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There are other advantages to hybrids. If you spend time on California
freeways at 5-10 MPH the hybrid is putting out a lot less pollution and
getting much better mileage because it can run the engine only when
needed. Whenever I go to Portland or Seattle and start to smell car
exhaust I realize how clean California is, and how mandatory smog tests
every couple of years makes a real difference.

And I make no claims about what Honda or Toyota do - they are out to
make money just like everybody else. However they do seem to be able to
innovate in motive technology when they want to, not just things like
OnStar and onboard DVD players and dimmable mirrors.

As far as Geo Metro gas mileage, certainly it's pretty good, but a
Toyota Prius gets as good or better mileage and is a much bigger
vehicle. And anyone who says they get 60mpg in a Geo Metro is probably
stretching the truth. Since 1990 I've had two Metros and the best I ever
got is 58mpg in my 1990 1.0L. Once. In my current 1997 1.0L I average
40mpg mostly city driving. A friend with a Honda Insight gets 65 mpg in
city, and it's a comparably sized vehicle. And there's extra power when
you need it, too, by virtue of having gas+electric motor.

The point I'm making is that hybrids have advantages, not just in fuel
economy, but in added power and lower emissions.

Cheerful regards,

Bob

Funny NYPD wrote:
> You may also want to say GM also has killed the hybrid.
> Because without hybrid, GM's SUV runs 13MPG, with hybrid it runs 13.5-14 MPG. GM doesn't see the value on its SUV product with all those high cost and dangerous high-voltages on Hybrids.
>  
> So you will claim the killing of hybrid to Honda: Honda just cancelled the hybrid Accord this year. Since without hybrid, the Accord runs 24MPG, with hybrid, it runs 26MPG. Honda feels it doesn't make sense to customer if they keep making it.
>  
> Honda's engineer still confused how Toyota achieved 40-60-80MPG on their vehicles while their vehicle and GM¢s vehicle cannot achieve those good numbers? On the real world, or just on the test bench on cruised speed?
>  
> BTW, there are some VW diesel vehicles does achieve 40-60MPG fuel economy with good emissions. My friend¢s GEO metro with gasoline engine can also achieve 40-50-60MPG easily, it has 120K miles and the engine still runs good. Chevy just doesn¢t make this anymore.

2007\12\05@222553 by Timothy J. Weber

face picon face

Funny NYPD wrote:
> Honda's engineer still confused how Toyota achieved 40-60-80MPG on their vehicles while their vehicle and GM¢s vehicle cannot achieve those good numbers? On the real world, or just on the test bench on cruised speed?

My wife's Prius does 50+ mpg quite consistently on long trips, more like
40 mpg in winter for short trips.  It's an older model by now (2002?);
my friends with the newer ones do better.

> BTW, there are some VW diesel vehicles does achieve 40-60MPG fuel economy with good emissions.

She had a VW Rabbit before the Prius, but couldn't deal with the
unreliability in a cold climate with on-street parking.
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2007\12\06@003816 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Dec 5, 2007, at 2:17 PM, Funny NYPD wrote:

> Honda's engineer still confused how Toyota achieved 40-60-80MPG
> on their vehicles while their vehicle and GM’s vehicle cannot
> achieve those good numbers? On the real world, or just on the
> test bench on cruised speed?

Like I've been saying; I get about 50mpg averaged over my real
world driving in my prius.  Honda didn't get it; for the accord
they added an electric motor to their 240HP V6 gas engine version.
Here's a quote from an article on the honda hybrid:

>> Honda's hybrid system — IMA, for integrated motor
>> assist — always uses the gas engine, then kicks in
>> the electric motor for more power when needed.

Excuse me?  The gas motor is 240HP!  It's a wonder that the
electric motor EVER goes on (a tribute to aggressive american
drivers, I guess.)

The prius added the electric motor to a 70HP gas engine, nicely
matching itself with those observations people are making about
how little horsepower it takes to maintain highway speeds.  You
NEED both motors to get reasonable acceleration on the prius, and
it still won't make any sportscar drivers happy.  The prius is a
wonderfully "balanced" engineering effort, taking into account
price, size, efficiency, handling, and etc.  I'd like to see
what they could do if they optimize for efficiency rather than
"balance", but I doubt that many customers would pay that much
for that such a small and sluggish car...

BillW

2007\12\06@083312 by Carl Denk

flavicon
face

If it gets that cold you don't have 120 VAC outlets at each parking
space like Northern Ontario, Canada?

Timothy J. Weber wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2007\12\06@091313 by Timothy J. Weber

face picon face
Carl Denk wrote:
> If it gets that cold you don't have 120 VAC outlets at each parking
> space like Northern Ontario, Canada?

That would be nice!  Who pays the bill?
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2007\12\06@094304 by Carl Denk
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face
I don't know who pays, but I think it was Cochorane (sp) ,Timmins,
somewhere, almost everywhere, the outlets were in private parking lots,
at parking meters on city streets. It was 86 F when we were up there
some years ago in middle of summer.

Timothy J. Weber wrote:
> Carl Denk wrote:
>  
>> If it gets that cold you don't have 120 VAC outlets at each parking
>> space like Northern Ontario, Canada?
>>    
>
> That would be nice!  Who pays the bill?
>  

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