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'[OT]:Rush job pricing'
2002\01\23@191226 by Jinx

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I was today asked to do a little job. The person asked if I could
do it before the weekend. I hmm'ed and haa'ed and said no, but
Monday or Tuesday would be OK. She must have interpreted my
hesitation for something else (I was only having a think about the
practicalities) because she added "Would it help if I paid more
to get it done now ?"

"Ka-ching" I thought, but would I be entitled to do so ? To me, the
pay made no difference to how fast I got something done. I work
any and all hours, so over-time doesn't come into it

Reflecting on some other instances of "rush" or "priority" pricing
I sort of came to the conclusion that it's a crock to ask for more
money for what you'd do in the normal course of events.

If you have two jobs to do, and you temporarily sideline one in
favour of the other for more money, should you then discount
the other to balance your conscience ? (OK OK, I know the
answer to that one). At the end of the day, both jobs were done
at their normal pace, just that one customer thinks they got
some special treatment. Are they paying for that ? I guess it's
like buying branded items - they might not be any better than
Acme brand, but you think they are. Superficial ?

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2002\01\23@195226 by Dave Dilatush

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Jinx wrote...

{Quote hidden}

You have female clients who offer to pay more for your, um, services if
you finish up FASTER?????

Ahem.  OK, let's not go there...

Seriously, I think most people, when they contract for services, expect
to have to pay more for rush treatment that may cause you to have to
inconvenience other customers, make serious adjustments to your personal
plans, work longer than customary hours, and so forth.  I don't think
anyone expects fast service without paying at least some premium, so I
don't see any reason for you to agonize over it.

If in the process another customer gets sidelined and has to accept a
delivery slip, then perhaps some consideration from you would be
appropriate, especially if they ask for it.

But don't do it for the sake of your conscience; do it, if you need to,
for the sake of keeping happy customers.

That's the bottom line, isn't it?  Always make sure they go away with a
smile on their face...

Dave

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2002\01\23@200311 by David VanHorn

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At 01:09 PM 1/24/02 +1300, Jinx wrote:
>I was today asked to do a little job. The person asked if I could
>do it before the weekend. I hmm'ed and haa'ed and said no, but
>Monday or Tuesday would be OK. She must have interpreted my
>hesitation for something else (I was only having a think about the
>practicalities) because she added "Would it help if I paid more
>to get it done now ?"
>
>"Ka-ching" I thought, but would I be entitled to do so ? To me, the
>pay made no difference to how fast I got something done. I work
>any and all hours, so over-time doesn't come into it

My PCB shop does this. Half the time, twice the cost.

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2002\01\23@211057 by Jinx

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> the pay made no difference to how fast I got something done

> My PCB shop does this. Half the time, twice the cost.

Hmmm, my fuzzy brain wonders why PCBs can't be made that
fast always. Do the staff really work twice as fast ? Seriously,
is there an actual provable justification for twice the price ? Not
that I'm condemning it and got no axe to grind with anyone in
particular, would just like to know

Is there a "half the cost for twice the time" option ?

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2002\01\23@213925 by Tim McDonough

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From: "Jinx" <spam_OUTjoecolquittTakeThisOuTspamCLEAR.NET.NZ>

> "Ka-ching" I thought, but would I be entitled to do so ? To me, the
> pay made no difference to how fast I got something done. I work
> any and all hours, so over-time doesn't come into it
>
> Reflecting on some other instances of "rush" or "priority" pricing
> I sort of came to the conclusion that it's a crock to ask for more
> money for what you'd do in the normal course of events.

I think that it comes down to whether you believe you should get
something extra for lowering the priority of whatever else you do in
life. Whether a person normally works 8, 10, 12, or more hours per day
there's still (?) something else you do when you're not working. I
think it's reasonable for someone to pay extra for that time when they
are asking it to be scheduled on such short notice.

Tim

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2002\01\23@224310 by Kathy Quinlan

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jinx" <.....joecolquittKILLspamspam@spam@CLEAR.NET.NZ>
> > the pay made no difference to how fast I got something done
>
> > My PCB shop does this. Half the time, twice the cost.
>
> Hmmm, my fuzzy brain wonders why PCBs can't be made that
> fast always. Do the staff really work twice as fast ? Seriously,
> is there an actual provable justification for twice the price ? Not
> that I'm condemning it and got no axe to grind with anyone in
> particular, would just like to know
>
> Is there a "half the cost for twice the time" option ?


Ok the reason they can squeeze down in time is that they shift long runs,
they may have an order for 10K boards, and they do them in the gaps IE they
plan to do the solid run for 2 weeks, then Jinx comes along, I need this
board made yesterday ;o) and they go sure the price will be $$$$$$, and they
make a hole in the 10K run, slip yours in and then when yours is out,
continue.

Staff do work faster on long runs, as it becomes routine IE the person
drilling the boards, knows that they drill 100 holes at .6mm 50 at .8mm etc
and where they are, once they have slotted another job in, it takes slightly
longer for the first few boards to get back in the routine. If they are
fully automated and use things like CNC drills, then I can see no
difference.

Regards,
Kat.

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2002\01\24@034503 by steve

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> Seriously, I think most people, when they contract for services,
> expect to have to pay more for rush treatment that may cause you to
> have to inconvenience other customers, make serious adjustments to
> your personal plans, work longer than customary hours, and so forth.
> I don't think anyone expects fast service without paying at least some
> premium, so I don't see any reason for you to agonize over it.

You're not from around here, are you ?
:-)

Steve.


======================================================
Steve Baldwin                Electronic Product Design
TLA Microsystems Ltd         Microcontroller Specialists
PO Box 15-680, New Lynn      http://www.tla.co.nz
Auckland, New Zealand        ph  +64 9 820-2221
email: stevebspamKILLspamtla.co.nz      fax +64 9 820-1929
======================================================

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2002\01\24@054427 by Roman Black

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Surely morally you get paid for providing a
service or product, and the price can be matched
with the customers willingness to pay for it.

If the customer is willing to pay X price for
a product or service, and you provide it at X
price, all is moral and everyone wins.

As a business person you owe it to your business
to always get the max for each/any job that the
customer is happy to pay. Any less, and you are
ripping yourself off.

And you are within your right to put a higher
paying customer before a lower paying one, as one
is simply paying more and receiving more. The
extra speed is a valid value added service that
should be paid for.

As I see it, your job is to have happy customers
and still make the most you can.
-Roman


Jinx wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\01\24@072103 by M. Adam Davis

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It partly has to do with prediction.  A particular business saves a lot
of money in storage and unused materials by only having 1 week's morth
of materials on hand.  To accurately judge how much they need they use
some complicated programs to track their sales and production.

Another part is that they want their line to be used all the time.  If
the worker is doing nothing, they are still paying the worker, but not
raking in the money.  They know exactly how much work they can do in a
given period of time and they schedule things so the line is always busy.

When someone wants a rush order they need to order more material (at
possibly higher cost since their supplier is used to a certian size
order) not to mention storing it and tracking it.  This newly ordered
material may not be used on the job that's causing the order, but it
will still be needed later for the job that's losing material because of
he rush.

The next thing is they have to shift jobs around and try to fit in a
ruch order to (ideally) and already full line.  This may cause overtime,
or just extra headaches, but either way it needs to be reimbursed.

Lastly, it is just another product which they can fix a higher price to.
It may not cost them more, but just like a 2.2GHz P IV processor
doesn't cost more to make than a 1.8GHz, it has a percieved greater
value, and is charged is such.

-Adam

Jinx wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\01\24@072255 by Jinx

face picon face
> > I don't think anyone expects fast service without paying at
> > least some premium, so I don't see any reason for you to
> > agonize over it

I probably won't ;-)

Without trying to be obtuse, shouldn't a customer get the best
(fastest ?) service always ?

OK, hypothetical.

A company has a policy of "twice the price, twice as fast" and
you ask them to do an urgent job at a time when they happen to
be not very busy. You get your rush job and paid double, but the
company didn't really raise a sweat doing it. How would you
feel ? As you knew the company policy, aggrieved, or is it just
"shit happens, get over it" ?

I'm not in a business that has constant turnover day after day,
but I've friends that are. Their policy is not to charge for rush
jobs, although they do realise there is a need to try and keep
all customers happy, wherever they are in the pecking order

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2002\01\24@090313 by Aaron Blohowiak

picon face
This isnt always true. If your customer doesnt really know what a fair value
is, and you overcharge them (although they pay willingly) if they later find
out what market rate is, you prolly just lost yourself a customer. Now, you
can go slightly above market rate because you are an elite expert (arent we
all ;) heheh) in your field, and your time is so valuble. But, dont take
advantage of your customers, but remember, how much they want to spend on
something is up to them, so unless it is really not fair to them, then you
should accept the deal. Also, you can just tell them, Look, i want to accept
your offer but i dont know if it would really be fair to you, this is what
i've charged my other customers: xxx. you know?

Aaronman
{Original Message removed}

2002\01\24@093601 by mike

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On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:09:39 +1300, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Another less-obvious issue :  if you don't increase prices for a
rush-job, they may expect to be able to get similar service in the
future - it could even be the case that they could have given you more
notice, but "he did it in a couple of days last time so let's not
bother getting the spec togther til next week...."

I would happily do the odd rush-job for a good customer without
charging much extra, but would be careful not to let it become a
habit!

There is also the risk of the " you did it so quick, it must have been
really easy so why are you charging this much" sort of attitude.

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2002\01\24@093622 by mike

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On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:08:19 +1300, you wrote:

>> the pay made no difference to how fast I got something done
>
>> My PCB shop does this. Half the time, twice the cost.
>
>Hmmm, my fuzzy brain wonders why PCBs can't be made that
>fast always. Do the staff really work twice as fast ? Seriously,
>is there an actual provable justification for twice the price ? Not
>that I'm condemning it and got no axe to grind with anyone in
>particular, would just like to know
>
>Is there a "half the cost for twice the time" option ?
It's a simple matter of scheduling flexibility. A PCB house wants to
keep their machines and staff at as close to 100% capacity as much of
the time as possible. It's much easier to do this if they have enough
notice to be able to juggle jobs around to even out the workload. If
people got used to faster service, it would make production planning
MUCH harder.

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2002\01\24@122856 by Dal Wheeler

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I think you'd have to charge at least a token amount more, just to keep from
setting future precedence.  I know we all like to come off as Scotty (Star
Trek reference), but I think he was foolish.  All it does in the long term
is make expectation management more difficult for later jobs...  I don't
know if I should go on, but our marketing guys walk all over us now, because
we gave so much slack in the beginning...  Similar thing, I think...

{Original Message removed}

2002\01\25@014837 by Dale Botkin

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> You have female clients who offer to pay more for your, um, services if
> you finish up FASTER?????
>
> Ahem.  OK, let's not go there...

Yeah, I'd be rich.  8-)

{Quote hidden}

I politely tell the new/prospective/rushed customer that the other guy has
priority because I won't slip the job.  Most of the time they respect
that, assuming that I would of course give them the same consideration.
If they're in a real rush and I know I'll have to sideline my OWN plans,
I'll charge a little extra as a PITA adjustment and spouse calmimng
measure.  Of course the caveat is that I do this part time, on the side.

Dale

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2002\01\25@053641 by Roman Black

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Hi Aaron, you seem to have misunderstood me. :o)
I DID NOT suggest giving the customer poor value
or overcharging in any way.

When I said "your job is to have happy customers
and still make the most you can" that obviously
includes NOT ripping the customer off. A clever
business person understands that pricing is not
the only issue in customer happiness, you can often
shift that balance by adding something that might
have great value to the customer, even though it
doesn't cost YOU that much.

So no, i'm not suggesting overcharging. :o)
-Roman


Aaron Blohowiak wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2002\01\25@053809 by Jinx

face picon face
> > You have female clients who offer to pay more for your,
> > um, services if you finish up FASTER?????
> >
> Yeah, I'd be rich.  8-)

Beat with the ugly stick eh ?

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2002\01\25@195612 by Jinx

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Ah, the famous Root 66 (seconds)

(Antipodeans will get that one)

{Quote hidden}

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2002\01\29@133754 by Mark Newland

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"M. Adam Davis" wrote:

> Lastly, it is just another product which they can fix a higher price to.
>  It may not cost them more, but just like a 2.2GHz P IV processor
> doesn't cost more to make than a 1.8GHz, it has a percieved greater
> value, and is charged is such.

I don't think it is a matter of it costing more to make.  There are several
factors involved.  One factor is the extra cost of engineering to get the
speed up from 1.8GHz to 2.2GHz.

If I recall, Microchip only manufactures 20MHz processors.  However due to
the manufacturing process, not all of the PIC's will pass the 20MHz test.
Instead of throwing away the ones that won't pass at 20MHz, lets lower the
price and sell them at 4MHz.  This may not be true with Microchips products
but it is true with other products.  Not even nessicarilly electronics
either.  Could be lumber, carpet, fabric, etc.

As far as charging more for faster response, I agree that a higher price for
faster service is not un-called for.  I have one client right now that is
getting a cheaper rate cause it is taking me forever to get his product to
him.  Have full time job during the day and can only do my normal business at
night and weekends.  Add to the fact that I am prepareing for my death
(getting married in May).  I don't have as much time as I would like to work
on the project.  If I wanted to spend more time on the project, I could spend
less time getting ready for the wedding at the risk of it costing more.
Luckily my client (Hi Randy) is very understanding in this.  If he wasn't, I
would have to charge more to cover the extra cost that it would cost for my
wedding.

Not all hours can be measured one customer against another.

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2002\01\29@134438 by Mark Newland

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"M. Adam Davis" wrote:

> Lastly, it is just another product which they can fix a higher price to.
>  It may not cost them more, but just like a 2.2GHz P IV processor
> doesn't cost more to make than a 1.8GHz, it has a percieved greater
> value, and is charged is such.

I don't think it is a matter of it costing more to make.  There are several
factors involved.  One factor is the extra cost of engineering to get the
speed up from 1.8GHz to 2.2GHz.

If I recall, Microchip only manufactures 20MHz processors.  However due to
the manufacturing process, not all of the PIC's will pass the 20MHz test.
Instead of throwing away the ones that won't pass at 20MHz, lets lower the
price and sell them at 4MHz.  This may not be true with Microchips products
but it is true with other products.  Not even nessicarilly electronics
either.  Could be lumber, carpet, fabric, etc.

As far as charging more for faster response, I agree that a higher price for
faster service is not un-called for.  I have one client right now that is
getting a cheaper rate cause it is taking me forever to get his product to
him.  Have full time job during the day and can only do my normal business at
night and weekends.  Add to the fact that I am prepareing for my death
(getting married in May).  I don't have as much time as I would like to work
on the project.  If I wanted to spend more time on the project, I could spend
less time getting ready for the wedding at the risk of it costing more.
Luckily my client (Hi Randy) is very understanding in this.  If he wasn't, I
would have to charge more to cover the extra cost that it would cost for my
wedding.

Not all hours can be measured one customer against another.


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Hi Tim,

I'm assuming by the lack of a response, that you don't need my help in
testing the link?

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'[OT]:Rush job pricing'
2002\02\01@102319 by Alan B. Pearce
face picon face
>Hmmm, my fuzzy brain wonders why PCBs can't be made that
>fast always. Do the staff really work twice as fast ? Seriously,
>is there an actual provable justification for twice the price ? Not
>that I'm condemning it and got no axe to grind with anyone in
>particular, would just like to know

Well the problem is that if you don't do a "half the time, twice the cost"
scenario, everyone wants it in half the time at the standard cost. It really
is a way of forcing customers to use economics to decide their priorities,
so that you don't disadvantage some of your customers because some others do
not plan ahead. There used to be a little plaque for putting on the wall
something along these lines.

>Is there a "half the cost for twice the time" option ?

Often there is.

I have been through this loop trying to get the workshop to make a prototype
piece of metal for me, and I am dang sure that because they can see I am
keen to make sure I'm not abusing the "gotta have it in 2 hours", when I do
ask for things real quick, it is a lot easier to get it quick, than get run
around with excuses that there are 3 other things gotta be done in that
time.

When you have a good relationship with an outside source the same thing
happens. If they know you do prioritize properly, then they go out of their
way to help, sometimes at no extra cost.

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2002\02\02@103841 by Reginald Neale

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>
>so that you don't disadvantage some of your customers because some others do
>not plan ahead. There used to be a little plaque for putting on the wall
>something along these lines.

Lots of them...

"Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on our part."

"Should we rush the rush job you want us to rush, or rush the rush
job we're rushing now?"

"Of course I want it today. If I wanted it tomorrow, I'd ask for it tomorrow."

"A crash program is based upon the proposition that nine pregnant
women can produce a baby in a month."

Reg

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