Post by thread:[OT]:PCB Cutting ?

Hi Peter, I use an electric tile cutter, bit like a table saw, but it has a diamond blade and it keeps the blade and PCB wet which is VERY important to keep the dust under control (you don't want to be breathing it in) and also keeps everything cool. It works very well. If I use the guide rail I get nice smooth cuts. If I don't, I get smooth cuts with lots of wiggles :) It just eats through the fibre glass laminate. I bought one pretty cheaply from a local hardware store. My only grip would be that the blade on it is a little thick (about 4mm) but I haven't been bothered to get a different one. I suspect that you'd need a carbide blade if you wanted to use your table saw as the fibre glass will eat anything else up pretty quickly. However I'd be very concerned about the dust. Cheers, Ash --- Ashley Roll Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd http://www.digitalnemesis.com Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718 > {Original Message removed}

> Has anyone experience using a table saw with a small dia. > (4 inch) "metal, plastics" blade? I have the saw but not the > metal blade yet. In addition to what Ashley said, I use a bandsaw to cut mine and a belt sander after. Previously it was done with a fretsaw, but GRP board is hell on blades and the small Dremel ones hardly lasted at all. It's very important to support the cut exit side of the board with a piece of scrap wood sheet (eg mdf) or the blade will just lift chunks out of it and make all hairy. If I could get a bandsaw blade with carbide tips......... Same with drill bits - HSS has nothing on carbide or cobalt by a factor of 100s, possibly 1000s Often considered scoring and snapping or guillotining but never got around to it. I think that's the preferred method for board houses, but if you want to do it with a circular blade, get the finest pitch thinnest carbide one you can -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Peter Barick wrote: > > Hi All, > > I would like to cut PCB straight but without a special cutter. > > Has anyone experience using a table saw with a small dia. (4 inch) > "metal, plastics" blade? I have the saw but not the metal blade yet. > > In prior hobby pcb work, I used a coping saw or even a hack saw. These > methods left uneven edges which I then filed, sanded straight. > > I'm looking for a better way. > > Peter, PIC Newbie Router?? -- Best regards Tony mICros http://www.bubblesoftonline.com spam_OUTsalesTakeThisOuTbubblesoftonline.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

Hi, For small pieces I use a guillotine type paper cutter, I know I shouldn't do that but it work for me! On 2/12/02 10:50 AM, "Peter Barick" <.....A20PJB1KILLspam@spam@WPO.CSO.NIU.EDU> wrote: {Quote hidden}> Hi All, > > I would like to cut PCB straight but without a special cutter. > > Has anyone experience using a table saw with a small dia. (4 inch) > "metal, plastics" blade? I have the saw but not the metal blade yet. > > In prior hobby pcb work, I used a coping saw or even a hack saw. These > methods left uneven edges which I then filed, sanded straight. > > I'm looking for a better way. > > Peter, PIC Newbie > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

At 08:50 PM 2/11/02 -0600, Peter Barick wrote: >Hi All, > >I would like to cut PCB straight but without a special cutter. We used to use an Olfa "P Cutter" which looks something like a hooked linoleum cutter except with a smaller blade (replaceable). It works OK for small quantities of boards. dwayne Dwayne Reid <dwaynerKILLspamplanet.eon.net> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002) .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .- `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address. This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jinx" <.....joecolquittKILLspam.....CLEAR.NET.NZ> To: <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [OT]:PCB Cutting ? > Often considered scoring and snapping or guillotining but > never got around to it. I think that's the preferred method for > board houses, > The ones I have been in use a big guillotine like the ones you use for sheet metal :o) Regards, Kat. ____________________________________________________________________________ /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | K.A.Q. Electronics \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail | Software and Electronic Engineering X - NO Word docs in e-mail | Perth Western Australia / \ | Ph +61 419 923 731 ____________________________________________________________________________ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

> Has anyone experience using a table saw with a small dia. (4 inch) > "metal, plastics" blade? I have the saw but not the metal blade yet. The fiberglass will eat table saw blades very quickly. As others have suggested a carbide blade will probably work best. Wear a mask! You do not want to breathe in the dust from this. If the fiberglass chews up metal saw blades you can imagine what it does to your lungs. > I'm looking for a better way. Where I used to work we would shear prototype boards with metal working shear. If there were odd shapes we used a Dremel tool with a router base and carbide cutters. Tim -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

For small pieces (euro card size) i make a cut with a sharp knife on the front and back of the PCB (cut a couple of times) and brake it on the edge of a table. grtz Simon --- Peter Barick <A20PJB1spam_OUTWPO.CSO.NIU.EDU> wrote: > Hi All, {Quote hidden}> > I would like to cut PCB straight but without a > special cutter. > > Has anyone experience using a table saw with a small > dia. (4 inch) > "metal, plastics" blade? I have the saw but not the > metal blade yet. > > In prior hobby pcb work, I used a coping saw or even > a hack saw. These > methods left uneven edges which I then filed, sanded > straight. > > I'm looking for a better way. > > Peter, PIC Newbie > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must > start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other > [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Peter, Harbor Freight Tools sells a 12" Sheer, Roller, Break tool, works great for PC Boards. Vern Peter Barick wrote: {Quote hidden}> > Hi All, > > I would like to cut PCB straight but without a special cutter. > > Has anyone experience using a table saw with a small dia. (4 inch) > "metal, plastics" blade? I have the saw but not the metal blade yet. > > In prior hobby pcb work, I used a coping saw or even a hack saw. These > methods left uneven edges which I then filed, sanded straight. > > I'm looking for a better way. > > Peter, PIC Newbie > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Hi Peter, Well, from reading all the responses on this topic, I can see that there are a lot of different approaches. For what it's worth, I'll share what's worked fairly well for me. I use a Dremel tool with a #540 emery cut-off wheel. It's about 1.25" dia., and 0.0625" thick, so it leaves a nice, thin kerf. I use the top speed, about 30,000 rpm. You can also use the smaller #409 wheel (15/16" dia.). It has an even smaller kerf, as it's only .025" thick. It's more fragile, so you need a gentle touch to avoid breaking it. As someone else pointed out, the wheels often don't last very long. Luckily, they're pretty inexpensive, and come in packages of 20 and 36. The trick to getting them to last is to be gentle, and sort of "skim" where you want to cut. Make a few passes, if necessary. Unlike a conventional saw, you don't want to force it. Let the speed of the tool do the work, and don't bog it down. Always keep the cut-off wheel in a straight line with your cut, ie. don't twist it. It will break. I don't go through many wheels now that I've got the knack. It's a good idea to clamp down your board, so you can use both hands to guide the tool. I usually work freehand, and then straighten out the cut with a file, after I've photo-etched the PCB. If I were making a lot of boards, I guess I might try to rig up some sort of a jig to hold the Dremel, and get creative and clamp down some guides to feed the board straight -- kind of like a mini-table saw. When using presensitized boards, I put a piece of masking tape over the line I'm going to cut. This keeps the protective plastic backing stuff from lifting at the edges and getting ragged. It also helps keep the photoresist material from chipping. For sensitized boards, I think this is better than scoring with a knife, since you don't apply any pressure with the Dremel, which might damage the resist. Obligatory safety precaution: DEFINATELY wear a good dust mask. Glass particles, and whatever other crap is in the PCB, is bad news for your lungs. Your body can't get rid of glass dust, since it's completely inert. I think the condition is called silicosis. And of course, safety glasses are mandatory when working with fragile cutoff wheels spinning at 30,000 rpm. You probably don't want a shard in your eye, and they DO break from time to time. Hope that's helpful, Ray Dremel Tool Shill P.S. If you guys play your cards right, I may even explain how to make a suicidally dangerous "Dremel Tool Helicoptor". Hint: have 9-1-1 on your speed dial. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

I use an inverted jigsaw with a fine metal-cutting blade, to cut out upto 48 pieces from a 100mm x 220mm board. Width of kerf about 2mm, the accuracy of the cut depends on your manual dexterity ( a guide could help here). It works fine for my 16-out-of-a-board but I'm looking for a better approach for the 48-ers (I shall check out the Dremel approach which could be good for that...) SAFETY NOTE make sure you mount the saw so you cannot inadvertently make contact with the oscillating blade mountings etc and rig up a cover to protect you from the oscillating tip of the blade, so only the edge of the blade is exposed; this greatly reduces the safety hazard. I clean up the edges with a small belt sander. Takes around 15 seconds to sand 4 sides and round off 4 corners. Stuart -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 08:50 PM 2/11/02 -0600, you wrote: >Hi All, > >I would like to cut PCB straight but without a special cutter. I use a shear. It's efficient enough that for 100 boards if it is a bit cheaper to get 2 boards joined I'll do that and cut them apart. You can even do paper-based phenolic, but you have to heat the material a bit first to keep it from cracking at the shear line. You can also cut metal for housing prototypes with these machines. >Has anyone experience using a table saw with a small dia. (4 inch) >"metal, plastics" blade? I have the saw but not the metal blade yet. Makes me itch just thinking about it! >In prior hobby pcb work, I used a coping saw or even a hack saw. These >methods left uneven edges which I then filed, sanded straight. Very time consuming. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" @spam@speffKILLspaminterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com 9/11 United we Stand -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

I use a 42" shear/brake/roll to get perfect cuts. At times I wish it were 12 or 24 inches wide, because I could sure use the space. The only consideration is that repeatedly cutting glass boards in the same section of the blade will dull it in a hurry. I cut in different areas, so as to extend the useful life of the blade. Before I bought the shear, I used a saber saw when I only needed a few boards. I often chose to clamp a straight-edge to the board, then used the edge as a guide for the saw. One quick pass along the edge with a fine file takes off the copper burrs. Makes near perfect cuts, but is time consuming. Chris {Original Message removed}

Ashley, about what size is this unit? What size are the blades? Thanks, Colin Ashley Roll <KILLspamashKILLspamDIGITALNEMESIS.COM>KILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> on 02/11/2002 07:01:41 PM Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU> To: TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: (bcc: Colin Constant-NR/RMD/Raytheon/CA) Subject: Re: [OT]:PCB Cutting ? Hi Peter, I use an electric tile cutter, bit like a table saw, but it has a diamond blade and it keeps the blade and PCB wet which is VERY important to keep the dust under control (you don't want to be breathing it in) and also keeps everything cool. It works very well. If I use the guide rail I get nice smooth cuts. If I don't, I get smooth cuts with lots of wiggles :) It just eats through the fibre glass laminate. I bought one pretty cheaply from a local hardware store. My only grip would be that the blade on it is a little thick (about 4mm) but I haven't been bothered to get a different one. I suspect that you'd need a carbide blade if you wanted to use your table saw as the fibre glass will eat anything else up pretty quickly. However I'd be very concerned about the dust. Cheers, Ash --- Ashley Roll Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd http://www.digitalnemesis.com Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718 > {Original Message removed}

OK, I'm showing signs of my age now. In my earliest days, we made carriers for the wave solder machines that served two purposes: 1. let us keep the chains at the same width all day and night (it took over 20 minutes for the chain to travel the length of the machine, so this saved lots of set-up time); 2. held multiple quantities at once. Later we began to design in either perfs, scoring, or routing between panels. Then to the wave & wash machines, then either to be snapped apart by hand, or at one point we used a small machine that gave a bit of mechanical advantage to snap panels apart. That was later abandoned because of the high incidence of damage to populated boards. At 7 - 10,000 boards each day, it was a bit labor intensive to do so by hand. I can't think of a production facility that still saws boards, and mechanical shears would require large unpopulated sections for the tooling. Just doesn't make sense. Sounds like it would be a neat idea for low-to-mid volume assembly though- perhaps router-cutting stuffed boards - is that what you are referring to?. Are there any articles around that show how this process might actually work effectively? I would love to get up to speed. My experience in manufacturing goes back to the '70's and could use some updating. Chris On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:21:04 -0800, you wrote: >Forgive my asking, but why would anyone ever want to cut stuffed boards? So you can stuff and then flow-solder a whole panel at a time - a very common practice in industry. >C > >>If you are cutting boards that are stuffed >beware -- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

>I can't think of a production facility that still saws boards, and >mechanical shears would require large unpopulated sections for the tooling. >Just doesn't make sense. >Sounds like it would be a neat idea for low-to-mid volume assembly though- >perhaps router-cutting stuffed boards - is that what you are referring to?. >Are there any articles around that show how this process might actually work >effectively? I would love to get up to speed. My experience in manufacturing >goes back to the '70's and could use some updating. I think if you look at photographs of SMT stuffing machines you will find that the panels are multiple boards, waiting to be broken apart after soldering. I believe grooves are routed or sawn in the PCB as part of the PCB manufacture process allowing the boards to be broken apart after stuffing, in the manner you describe. I have handled fibreglass PCB's where there are little rough bits where this has obviously happened. For an SMT machine it makes sense to have large panels as these stuff the boards that fast any stop time due to changing the panel becomes a significant portion of the operating time. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

A company I worked for had boards used in two different products. The boards were stuffed, tested, calibrated, and stocked. <warning...bad idea ahead> One product supported the board by soldering to header pins. The other product used connectors on the pins and supported the board by sliding it in grooves in an aluminum extrustion. The extrusion required 0.1" unpopulated edges to slide in the grooves, but those edges made the board too big for the soldered product. So we had to saw the edges off of about half the boards. I tried clamping the boards in ESD foam but still got electrical problems. The wet diamond saw worked fine, though a bit messy. Sherpa Doug > {Original Message removed}

----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan B. Pearce" <RemoveMEA.B.PearceTakeThisOuTRL.AC.UK> To: <PICLISTEraseME.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [OT]:PCB Cutting ? > > I think if you look at photographs of SMT stuffing machines you will find > that the panels are multiple boards, waiting to be broken apart after > soldering. I believe grooves are routed or sawn in the PCB as part of the > PCB manufacture process allowing the boards to be broken apart after > stuffing, in the manner you describe. I have handled fibreglass PCB's where {Quote hidden}> there are little rough bits where this has obviously happened. > > For an SMT machine it makes sense to have large panels as these stuff the > boards that fast any stop time due to changing the panel becomes a > significant portion of the operating time. > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > For small SMT boards it is usually easier to assemble the boards in panels. It takes less time for the pick and place machine to stuff one large panel than a bunch of small indivdual PCBs. The last board I did at my old job had 8 small boards on each panel. We had the PCB house score between the boards so all we had to do was snap them apart after assembly. The little rough bits you saw were probably mouse bites. These are usually sections about 1/4 in. wide left in between boards in a panel. A series of holes is drilled in this piece so that it snaps apart easily. Rick -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

PCB cutting - - I use a large shear I picked up for 500 bucks at an auction. It took two of us using ramps to move it into a pickup truck to move it. I had to drag it into the garage and there are still marks on the concrete where I dragged it -inches at a time- side to side to get it to moved into the garage. I almost bought the pan break they had too <grin> ... Probably not the most economical or small way to go - but I wanted speed, accuracy and the ability to cut metal too. It's an old shear - so I'm not worried about cutting fiberglass on it! Jim {Original Message removed}

Peter, Northern Tool at http://www.NorthernTool.com sells a small shear/bending brake combination. It can cut up to 7 7/8". It is priced at $169.99 USD they have others at times in the 12" and 30" sizes as well. I use a 12" model, it has cut many boards, it is the fastest, least messy method that I know of, the blades can be re sharpends, but I haven't had to have mine sharpened yet... Vern Peter Barick wrote: {Quote hidden}> > Hi All, > > I would like to cut PCB straight but without a special cutter. > > Has anyone experience using a table saw with a small dia. (4 inch) > "metal, plastics" blade? I have the saw but not the metal blade yet. > > In prior hobby pcb work, I used a coping saw or even a hack saw. These > methods left uneven edges which I then filed, sanded straight. > > I'm looking for a better way. > > Peter, PIC Newbie > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservEraseMEEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

I've got five aces, and a cordless dremel. Do tell! -Adam Colin Constant wrote: {Quote hidden}>Would this be the cordless Dremel or the corded model? > >Colin > > > > >P.S. If you guys play your cards right, I may even explain how to make >a suicidally dangerous "Dremel Tool Helicoptor". Hint: have 9-1-1 on >your speed dial. > >-- > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different >ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. > > > > > -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservspam_OUTKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

I have been using an old 12" x 12" paper cutter (never seems to get dull, never sharpened it). It cuts pretty close to the shear line. I finish the edges with a cheap table type belt/disk sander available from your local Home Depot or Lowes hardware store. Been using this process for over 25 years with excellent results. Good luck, Rick Vern Jones wrote: {Quote hidden}> Peter, > > Northern Tool at http://www.NorthernTool.com sells a small shear/bending > brake combination. It can cut up to 7 7/8". It is priced at $169.99 USD > they have others at times in the 12" and 30" sizes as well. > > I use a 12" model, it has cut many boards, it is the fastest, least > messy method that I know of, the blades can be re sharpends, but I > haven't had to have mine sharpened yet... > > Vern > > Peter Barick wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I would like to cut PCB straight but without a special cutter. > > > > Has anyone experience using a table saw with a small dia. (4 inch) > > "metal, plastics" blade? I have the saw but not the metal blade yet. > > > > In prior hobby pcb work, I used a coping saw or even a hack saw. These > > methods left uneven edges which I then filed, sanded straight. > > > > I'm looking for a better way. > > > > Peter, PIC Newbie > > > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > -- > http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! > email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body