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'[OT]:OS opinion'
2006\05\03@023656 by Dave King

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This is not meant to start a us verses them os war. What I am hoping is that
some of you may be heavier users and hopefully multi os users of either
Linux or windows. I use xp on my laptop and slackware on my desktop however
I don't use the slack box for gaming which is why I have no base line for
this.

I have a project just starting and during one of our meetings we discussed
which base os would be best to use. This is a graphics intensive application
as well as having a large amount of sensor and i/o stuff going on. At last
count
we were up to 30 some odd pic's in the project.

The discussion about graphics came up as it was suggested that windows
actually
had better graphics abilities than x11 based versions. I know some of the
first person
shooter/stress relief have come out in both pc and nix versions. Not having
used the
nix version I have no direct reference. I believe and said that I thought
the Nix version
was faster but no one was sure. Hence this post. Can anyone post any usable
tests or
information?

Dave



2006\05\03@031355 by Peter Todd

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On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 11:37:34PM -0700, Dave King wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Well ID Software is unusual for releasing Linux versions of it's various
games. I've played various versions of Quake on Linux before, seemed
plenty fast and smooth. Linux supports OpenGL along with hardware
accelleration just fine. It's support for video cards is a little bit
more limited than windows, but sounds like this is a professional
project with a decent budget, in which case picking one of the video
cards that does work on Linux won't really be an issue. Nvidia and ATI
both release Linux drivers for their top of the line cards.

Basically, my advice is if you are comfortable with Linux, use it. Minor
differences in graphics performence can always be fixed with minor
differences in hardware budget. Your programming time is probably way
more expensive.

Anyway, Linux does have the potential for very good real-time
responsiveness, both hard and soft real time. At my "day job" I do Linux
audio work, stuff like recording multiple channels of high quality audio
at once. Works fine, no drop outs or anything. I also have Linux
controlling my CNC milling machine via the EMC software, that's using
the hard real time extensions. Works fine.

That said, if hard-real time is something you want, check if the video
drivers for your graphics will work with real-time Linux.

--
spam_OUTpeteTakeThisOuTspampetertodd.ca http://www.petertodd.ca

2006\05\03@033422 by kravnus wolf

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--- Dave King <.....KingDWSKILLspamspam@spam@shaw.ca> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

 You intend to running multiple sensor and display
the sensor using a GUI rite?


> The discussion about graphics came up as it was
> suggested that windows
> actually
> had better graphics abilities than x11 based
> versions. I know some of the
> first person
> shooter/stress relief have come out in both pc and
> nix versions. Not having
> used the
> nix version I have no direct reference. I believe
 Well yes and no. Windows DirectX has plenty of
documentation but if you intend to use an animated gif
picture than nix and windows are both appropriate.

> and said that I thought
> the Nix version
> was faster but no one was sure. Hence this post. Can
> anyone post any usable
 I believe the UI for both platform are adequate but
the interface to multiple i/o is a bit of concern. How
do you intend to interface the multiple i/o? RS232
sharing? Ethernet? etc? Need more information to
recommend which OS and for what reason.

Pls specify the deployment env. and conditions.

john

> tests or
> information?
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> --

2006\05\03@063853 by Dave King

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Ok to add a bit more info. This is a dynamic race car simulator.
We have the graphics display portion to give the visual cues of zipping
around
roads, trees, pedestrians, ufo's, cows, other cars etc.
the whole thing is on a 6dof table, and we need to simulate and interact
with
each and every switch and control as well as sound effects, vibrations and
other
effects. So if the road goes up a hill the graphics shows that, the table
tilts
to give the impression of increased g force, the sound of engines etc
change,
perhaps the tach and speedo change.

The gauges are all needle types tach, speedo, temps and so on. Those we are
tentatively going to use a pic and stepper motor to move unless we figure
out a
simpler way.

We were looking at wired ethernet for everything .

{Quote hidden}

2006\05\03@064623 by Peter Todd

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On Wed, May 03, 2006 at 03:39:31AM -0700, Dave King wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Heck, something *very* similar to that has been done before, namely
the flight simulator software X-Plane. It runs on OSX, Linux and
Windows. People have hooked it up to all manner of cockpit simulators.

It's closed source software, but it has a vast library of stuff people
have added onto it, even to the point of using it for FAA-approved
flight training. I'm sure you could find a lot of implementation details
on how people interfaced it to cockpit instruments.

That this has been done on Linux will probably answere you question. :)

http://www.x-plane.com/

--
petespamKILLspampetertodd.ca http://www.petertodd.ca

2006\05\03@112650 by kravnus wolf

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Okay....... Peter gave a very good example of X-Plane.

>From your requirements you need a real-time OS. Soft
or hard real-time OS should do.  The current 2.6
kernel support soft real-time and most of the
developers claim it supports it very well*I did not
test it personally so I cannot confirm this*.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8476

this is a SMALL article on how linux was integrated
for the pin ball machine.  Basically it shows that
timing for a relative small game is viable on linux. I
just can imagine the number of sensors that can go off
at once! The CPU has to cater all this interrupts that
is hardware interrupts. The CPU has to handle each
interrupts quickly which is aka as interrupt storm due
to its frequency. For this kind of work with handling
selected interrupts require kernel src therefore linux
wins in this area .
Windows/linux should implement sensor management as
drivers. Windows tweaking at a layer higher than the
driver is impossible thanks to it's no src code.
Please don't take my word for it as I have not
implemented this kind of project before. I have
studied how Unix kernel works therefore I am more
accustom to changing the kernel as I see fit and have
NO clue on WHAT goes on in Windows Kernel. For more
indepth Windows internals http://www.sysinternals.com is a
good place to start.

You can use ethernet interface but you have to realize
the protocol cost of running such services. Richard
Stevens of TCP/IP ilustrated book 2 describes the
protocol stack VERY well and one has to imagine the
cost of using the TCP/IP stack for simple
communication of the device sensors in the system.
Once again, if responsiveness of the TCP/IP stack is
good enough for you then go for it although
implementing the stack for the sensor may prove to be
expensive monetary.

Lastly, 3D programming is strong on Windows thanks to
the abundance of games..... But Linux have their own
followings. Unreal and Quake has been ported to Linux
but I do not have a strong tutorial site for you to
use in Linux. This part will take the bulk of your
development work.

best wishes,
john

PS: if you need more linux and window internals just
send me a mail.

--- Peter Todd <.....peteKILLspamspam.....petertodd.ca> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

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