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'[OT]:Network question...'
2004\03\02@145947 by John Ferrell

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If you find this too far off topic, please just delete...

I am trying to implement a wireless connection to my laptop.
I now realize that I probably should not have purchased a router, a wireless access point would have done the job.
Schematic at http://home.earthlink.net/~johnferrell/Network1.jpg

The problem is that in the configuration I have created, the laptop gets to the internet just fine but does not appear in my local network.
All network machines have internet access through Internet Connection Sharing on the XP PRO computer.

Should it have access to the local network?
Would a link from the hub back to the router introduce more problems?
If nothing else works, will the router introduce any more problems if I try to use it as an access point by plugging it to the hub?

If the question is too far off topic, just let it die a quiet death please!

John Ferrell    http://DixieNC.US

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2004\03\02@152059 by Anthony Toft

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The way you picture is drawn, the wireless is on a different network than
everything else, and so you would _not_ be able to see them.

Is that router a NAT router? If so you could plug the hub directly into it
(where the XP Pro box currently is) and use it instead of the XP box for
routing.

Then everything should see everything else and be able to see the internet.

> {Original Message removed}

2004\03\02@152100 by Bob Ammerman

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John,

Just plug the network hub into the 'router with wireless' LAN port.

Plug all your computers, including the XP Pro one into the network hub.

You will no longer need connection sharing. The router will do that job for
you.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\02@152306 by M. Adam Davis

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With your current configuration, as long as your XP Pro computer is in
Bridge mode (NOT Internet Connection Sharing, ICS) then all the
computers should be able to see each other and the router.  If you've
set up the XP computer with ICS then anything attached to the hub will
have a hard time seeing the laptop and vice versa.

If I were in your shoes, I'd do one of two things:
1) Hook the hub directly to the router.  This will allow all computers
to see each other as long as you've configured them to do so.
2) Hook the Cable modem to the XP computer with ICS turned on, hook the
output to the hub, and hook the hub to the ethernet (Local port, not
WAN) of the router.  The WAN would be unconnected, and it will not
function as a router.  Turn off DHCP on the router.

Either of those two setups will put all the computers on the same
network segment, and they'll have as good a chance at seeing each other
as they would if they were all hooked up to the hub directly.

Unless there's a special need for the XP Pro to be doing the internet
sharing, I'd suggest option one - let the dedicated router do its job,
let the hub do its job, and free the xp computer from the chain - it's
just another point of failure, and link that needs to be debugged in
situations like this.

-Adam

John Ferrell wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2004\03\02@154319 by MURAN0

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That's how I've been running for a couple of years...

I have a Linksys Wireless router, but don't use the router part of it.  I
have the LAN side of it connected on my network, and it gets DHCP addresses
served from one of the two other Linksys (Not Wireless) routers on my
Network, or my Win2K server, depending on how I have it configured that
month.

Works great.  :)

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\02@154526 by Herbert Graf

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{Quote hidden}

       Well, you've got an interesting setup I must say. First off, are you set on
having the local network access the internet through the winXP machine? Is
there some reason you don't just connect your internal lan to the router?

It MIGHT be possible to do what you ask with what you've got, but it would
be MUCH simpler to just put those machines on the router instead of going
through the XP machine. TTYL

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2004\03\02@172946 by John Ferrell

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It appears to be a NAT router. (Thank goodness for Google, I can answer that
question).

When I tried that plan, I think I lost internet capability for my wife's
computer (Win98SE). I did not do anything with the software on that box, may
be that I should have. The laptop hops on the internet with no problem.
Perhaps I need to use ICS to conceal their is only one internet
subscription?

The router I bought is made by Belkin.
catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Product_Id=136493
If you want to bother looking.

BTW, the Belkin 54G laptop card won't work with a Pesario 2100 laptop and I
doubt that they will be able to resolve it.
Somehow I got the idea when bridging was turned on in the XP Pro machine the
Nic's were logicly coupled. Apparently not so.

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\02@173401 by John Ferrell

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Initially I was trying to be as efficient as possible because I frequently
back up drives from one machine to another and I wanted to avoid mixing the
internet traffic and the net traffic. May be that was not a real problem.

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\02@174643 by John Ferrell

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Looking real hard at:
2) Hook the Cable modem to the XP computer with ICS turned on, hook the
> output to the hub, and hook the hub to the ethernet (Local port, not
> WAN) of the router.  The WAN would be unconnected, and it will not
> function as a router.  Turn off DHCP on the router.

I am not sure this router will do what is requiered.
John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\02@182703 by Anthony Toft

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> When I tried that plan, I think I lost internet capability
> for my wife's computer (Win98SE). I did not do anything with
> the software on that box, may be that I should have. The
This is probably due to them being configured for different IP networks, the
router probably has DHCP on it so set the 98 box to "Obtain IP address
automatically" and it should then work.

> laptop hops on the internet with no problem. Perhaps I need
> to use ICS to conceal their is only one internet subscription?

The NAT router is doing this on your behalf.

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2004\03\02@185441 by John Ferrell

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It looks like this will work for me, but I will lose the security provided
by a router.

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\02@190310 by John Ferrell

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This is probably what I should pursue. That would be using the equipment as
it is intended. However, if past experience continues I will find every
possible snag!

If I pull the router out of the schematic and put the laptop on one of the
hub outputs, everything works.


John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\02@191137 by Herbert Graf

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> It appears to be a NAT router. (Thank goodness for Google, I can
> answer that
> question).
>
> When I tried that plan, I think I lost internet capability for my wife's
> computer (Win98SE). I did not do anything with the software on
> that box, may
> be that I should have. The laptop hops on the internet with no problem.
> Perhaps I need to use ICS to conceal their is only one internet
> subscription?

       You should completely disable ICS, it's a pretty poor piece of software
even when it does work (in my experience).

       Make sure your NIC is set for DHCP and that's it, everything should be set
up automatically. TTYL

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2004\03\02@191140 by John Ferrell

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RE:
This is probably due to them being configured for different IP networks, the
router probably has DHCP on it so set the 98 box to "Obtain IP address
automatically" and it should then work.

I will try to do this tomorrow. It was not practical to set this router up
in the same locacation as the primary machine and movig cables is a bit of a
hassle. Not only was better visibility for the RF connection a goal but the
area around the XPPro machine is flooded with a 2.4GHZ video link.

It would also be a good idea to catch up on real work before getting too
deep.

You guys have certainly taken me a long ways into the problem. It is a great
help to get pointed in the general direction of the solution!

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\02@191344 by Herbert Graf

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> Initially I was trying to be as efficient as possible because I frequently
> back up drives from one machine to another and I wanted to avoid
> mixing the
> internet traffic and the net traffic. May be that was not a real problem.

       Unless you've got a SUPER fast connection internet traffic will never put a
noticeable dent on LAN performance. Most LANs out there at 100Mbps, the
faster internet connection I can get (without an insane amount of money) is
at max 3Mbps, ONE way, so even if you've got 100% utilization of your
internet connection you've still got many megabits per second of bandwidth
left. TTYL

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2004\03\03@015718 by William Chops Westfield

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On Tuesday, Mar 2, 2004, at 12:01 US/Pacific, John Ferrell wrote:

>  now realize that I probably should not have purchased a router, a
> wireless access point would have done the job.
>
> Schematic at http://home.earthlink.net/~johnferrell/Network1.jpg
>
> The problem is that in the configuration I have created, the laptop
> gets to the internet just fine but does not appear in my local > network.
>
I would put the hub between the router and the XP pro computer,
turn off the network sharing on the computer and figure out how
to do the same things in the router.  If you don't want to do that
(say, because the pc sharing setup does a bunch of firewall stuff
that the router doesn't have), then it should work ok to move your
router to a port off the hub, with the cable modem connecting
directly to the XP system.  I strongly suspect that 'network
sharing' doesn't handle a downstream router very well, whereas
the router will do a fine job of masquarading as a single host.

BillW

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2004\03\03@133556 by John Ferrell

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I believe the root of the problem is that I am expecting the network to use
the two ports on the xp pro macine as a router and that just is not going to
work.
I better reconfigure to meet the intended design.
Thanks again!

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\03@165622 by John Ferrell

face picon face
If no one replies, I will understand, This really is not intended as a
network forum, but you guys have the best answers...

I have reconfigured to http://home.earthlink.net/~johnferrell/Network2.jpg

Strange things are happening:
The Xp Pro machine seems to be working, except it cannot see computer 99 on
the network.
The laptop seems to be working well. It has internet access and gets to all
of the network machines. It even works as a remote console to Xp Pro!

Computer 99 can get to all of the machines on the network EXCEPT Xp Pro, it
does not see that one. It does not see the internet either.

Computer 01 does the same thing as computer 99. Unfortunately, that one is
the wife's!

Computer 97 sees all of the other computers, but not the internet.

I bet I am going to learn more than I wanted to know about my router
next....
   Stay tuned for tomorrows adventure!


John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\03@170038 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> Computer 97 sees all of the other computers, but not the internet.

Are you sure the gateway is set correctly on that PC?

Wouter van Ooijen

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2004\03\03@170701 by M. Adam Davis

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Make sure all of the computers are either 1) set up to use DHCP or 2)
configured correctly for the IP addresses, netmask, and DNS (as a minimum)

Find out if you can ping all the computers from each other, and make
sure they can all ping the router.

-Adam

John Ferrell wrote:

{Quote hidden}

>{Original Message removed}

2004\03\03@181213 by Howard Winter

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John,

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:57:07 -0500, John Ferrell wrote:

> http://home.earthlink.net/~johnferrell/Network2.jpg

Could you add the IP addresses to the diagram?  That may
show what's going on and why you are having the problems
you are, if they are IP related.

Good luck!

Howard Winter
 St.Albans, England

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2004\03\03@182248 by Jake Anderson

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make sure the firewall is turned off for that connection in XP
that could screw some things up

-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of John Ferrell
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:57 AM
To: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [OT]:Network question...


If no one replies, I will understand, This really is not intended as a
network forum, but you guys have the best answers...

I have reconfigured to http://home.earthlink.net/~johnferrell/Network2.jpg

Strange things are happening:
The Xp Pro machine seems to be working, except it cannot see computer 99 on
the network.
The laptop seems to be working well. It has internet access and gets to all
of the network machines. It even works as a remote console to Xp Pro!

Computer 99 can get to all of the machines on the network EXCEPT Xp Pro, it
does not see that one. It does not see the internet either.

Computer 01 does the same thing as computer 99. Unfortunately, that one is
the wife's!

Computer 97 sees all of the other computers, but not the internet.

I bet I am going to learn more than I wanted to know about my router
next....
   Stay tuned for tomorrows adventure!


John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ferrell" <johnferrellspamKILLspamEARTHLINK.NET>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 3:01 PM
Subject: [OT]:Network question...


If you find this too far off topic, please just delete...

I am trying to implement a wireless connection to my laptop.
I now realize that I probably should not have purchased a router, a wireless
access point would have done the job.

Schematic at http://home.earthlink.net/~johnferrell/Network1.jpg

The problem is that in the configuration I have created, the laptop gets to
the internet just fine but does not appear in my local network.

All network machines have internet access through Internet Connection
Sharing on the XP PRO computer.

Should it have access to the local network?
Would a link from the hub back to the router introduce more problems?
If nothing else works, will the router introduce any more problems if I try
to use it as an access point by plugging it to the hub?

If the question is too far off topic, just let it die a quiet death please!

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

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2004\03\03@185820 by John Ferrell

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This one wins the prize!
I hope I was not the only one that learned something here. I thought when it
said "automatically detect" that would establish the linkages. winipcfg
saved the day, since it is not in the XP PRO machine, I hope I don't ever
need it over there.

In pursueing this one (set up to use DHCP ) I found my way to winipcfg where
the option to release and to renew IP's is located. That seems to have
cleared it up for all but one machine which never attaches to the internet
except for Windows updates anyway.

In the meanwhile, the XP Pro machine has declared that it needs to be
activated again, and that I am out of activations. I sure hope this can be
fixed with an email... the program has never been on any machine but this
one but it did have a MB replaced a while back!

Thanks to all, it would have taken a lot longer by way of any route I am
familiar with.

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\03@203413 by Matt Pobursky

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On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:57:53 -0500, John Ferrell wrote:
> This one wins the prize!
> I hope I was not the only one that learned something here. I thought when it
> said "automatically detect" that would establish the linkages. winipcfg
> saved the day, since it is not in the XP PRO machine, I hope I don't ever
> need it over there.

Windows 2000 and WinXP have a command line utility called "ipconfig"
that does what winipcfg does, and more. Just open a DOS window and type
ipconfig at the prompt. Entering "ipconfig ?"  will get you all the
optional command line parameters. Very handy and I use it all the time
here.

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems
(Who still likes and uses command line stuff, even in windows... ;-))

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2004\03\04@095354 by John Ferrell

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A little more info for those who might be interested...
This network sounds a little extreme for a home setup, I thought you might
like to know why...
The intent is to get everything I can over to the XP Pro machine, it works
very well.

Wife needs machine (computer 01) call her own, she won't touch one if we
share it.

Computer 99 has legacy apps that I seldom use any more. I am moving them
slowly to the XP Pro. There is some hardware that lacks drivers for XP that
I don't want to give up. It is not much of a problem to turn it on when I
need it. It shares the display, keyboard, mouse with Xp Pro machine through
a KVM switch.

Computer  97 has a couple of legacy applications that are best left on a
separate machine. The latest software in place on it is Corel. It exists
mainly to drive a Roland vinyl sign cutting machine. The primary software
for that was written for Win 95. It works fine in that application. It also
functions well as a Remote console to the Xp Pro machine. It is a 180mhz cpu
with a 512M hard drive that runs Win 98 SE. The monitor is a 15" Sony that
my records show I bought in 1991.

The laptop is mainly used as a remote console to the XP Pro machine from the
Living Room recliner. Some days my legs are not real cooperative about the
stairway to the shop. This allows me full access to my regular machine
without going to the shop.

I am neither bragging or complaining, I hope you young guys are able to
enjoy being a retired senior citizen someday as much as I do.

I also hope there are a few generous people around to help you through some
of the technical challenges you face.

Enough for now, old guys like me have volunteer work to do for the Fire
Department/Church/Lions Club and several model airplane organizations!

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\04@101606 by Alexander JJ Rice

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On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:55:29 -0500, John Ferrell
<EraseMEjohnferrellspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTEARTHLINK.NET> wrote:

> A little more info for those who might be interested...
> This network sounds a little extreme for a home setup,

Why not plug the router into the switch and branch everything off that,
the problem is probaly that different parts of the network will probaly
end up on different subnets, the windows xp machine is probably doing NAT
to allow the other machines to connect to the internet, unfortunately this
means that nothing on the internet side of the xp machine will be able to
connect directly to the other machines, that includes the laptop. As i
say, the fix for this is to have one NIC in each machine and allow your
router's DHCP server to assign the adresses. It will probably put all the
machines in the 192.168.0.X range, including the laptop with the router
set as the DNS, DHCP and local gateway. If you want to make sure go and do
an "ipconfig /all" on each machine and check what their ip adresses are.
\once this i don all machines shoul be able to connect to the router and
to each other.

Regards

Alex Rice

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2004\03\04@102234 by hael Rigby-Jones

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{Quote hidden}

John,

I've just been through something simmilar, I found an 802.11G wireless
router for a bargain price and snapped it up.  Then I found that simple ADSL
ethernet modems where very expensive, and I got a simple ADSL/Modem/router
for about half the price.  So then I had two routers, and not an
overwhleming amount of knoweldge on configuring them, but I did manage it.
I wish I had bought a simple access point though!

Does the wireless router have a multi-port switch built in?  If so why don't
you just get rid of the second NIC and hub and connect everything to the
router?  This would certainly simply things, and you could completely remove
ICS from all the other machines whilst still preserving net access.

Alternatively I think you should be able to use the router as an access
point by simply ignoring the WAN port and plugging everything into the LAN
port(s).

Regards

Mike




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2004\03\04@133723 by John Ferrell

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Very good points.

The IP's came out 192.68.2.x.
One Nic per machine is simplest, but I did receive an offline tip that Xp
Pro can be set up to do routing with a registry entry.
The hub helps out with physical cable constraints, it allows me to use what
I already have.

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\04@134724 by John Ferrell

face picon face
The  Belkin router can be used simply as an WAP, but the solution was better
utilizing the router functions.

The real need for the hub is to allow me to utilize the cables I already
have. The best wireless visibility for laptops and still out of the 2.4G
video camera link was in the floor joists on the front wall of my basement
shop. Since I have a ten foot ceiling, it is not real easy to get to. The
hub allows me to simply pick up the cables where they were when they
connected to the XP Pro machine. I don't think the hub could be a factor in
connection problems, but it would have been rude to not be as concise in the
description as I could. Besides, I already had the hub.

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\03\04@154531 by John Ferrell

face picon face
Thanks for the info.
There seems to be no end to the information available on the Internet.
Networking as a subject is a pretty good illustration of the problem of
information overload. Finding the right information is only easy when you
already know the right answer!

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

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