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'[OT]:M'chip's half-hearted USB'
2003\10\30@150235 by Brendan Moran

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Is it just me or is Microchip really half-hearted about their USB PICs?  I
mean they only have two, they don't have 18-series USB PICs, and they only
have OTP USB PICs...  Not even an EPROM development version of the
OTP.  And the PICs that do support USB are low-speed only.

Did they do this simply to be able to say that their MCUs offered USB
support, rather than actually putting some commitment into producing a
useable USB product?

--Brendan

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2003\10\30@152834 by Stef Mientki

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Brendan Moran wrote:

> Is it just me or is Microchip really half-hearted about their USB
> PICs?  I
> mean they only have two, they don't have 18-series USB PICs, and they
> only
> have OTP USB PICs...  Not even an EPROM development version of the
> OTP.  And the PICs that do support USB are low-speed only.
>
> Did they do this simply to be able to say that their MCUs offered USB
> support, rather than actually putting some commitment into producing a
> useable USB product?

I wonder if PICs are powerfull enough to act as an full supported USB
device.
Besides that, making an USB chip is one thing, writing drivers for the
PC-OSs is another.
If I read about the quality of MPLAB (never used it myself), I doubt if
microchip is capable of writing drivers.
Can they keep up with the current revolution USB-on-the-go ?
I'm not an expert, but seeing the evolution of PICs in the last 10 years,
it's not very impressive (OTP--> flash + some pheripherials).

my 2 cents,
Stef Mientki

>
>
> --Brendan
>
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2003\10\30@154044 by Josh Koffman

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Actually they have some new 18F chips on the future products section of
the line card. They are supposedly able to support full speed USB2.0.
I'll believe it when I can buy it at Digikey.

Josh
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Brendan Moran wrote:
> Is it just me or is Microchip really half-hearted about their USB PICs?  I
> mean they only have two, they don't have 18-series USB PICs, and they only
> have OTP USB PICs...  Not even an EPROM development version of the
> OTP.  And the PICs that do support USB are low-speed only.

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2003\10\30@161710 by Paul Hutchinson

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The 16C745/65 USB PICs are available in erasable windowed versions (JW
package).

These micros are designed to be used for making custom HID's (Human
Interface Device). For this they work very well, Microchip provides good
example code in a series of application notes. HID's don't require any PC
side drivers and work on all USB equipped platforms.

Hopefully they will soon release new USB PIC's that are more versatile.

Paul

> {Original Message removed}

2003\10\30@162640 by Stef Mientki

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Paul Hutchinson wrote:

>The 16C745/65 USB PICs are available in erasable windowed versions (JW
>package).
>
>These micros are designed to be used for making custom HID's (Human
>Interface Device). For this they work very well, Microchip provides good
>example code in a series of application notes. HID's don't require any PC
>side drivers and work on all USB equipped platforms.
>
The HID interface is so simple, you can hardly call that USB ;-)
Stef Mientki

>
>Hopefully they will soon release new USB PIC's that are more versatile.
>
>Paul
>
>
>
>>{Original Message removed}

2003\10\30@163708 by p.cousens

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IF they can run faster than 4Mhz

-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of Josh Koffman
Sent: 30 October 2003 21:27
To: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [OT]:M'chip's half-hearted USB


Actually they have some new 18F chips on the future products section of
the line card. They are supposedly able to support full speed USB2.0.
I'll believe it when I can buy it at Digikey.

Josh
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2003\10\30@172857 by Brendan Moran

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>Not even an EPROM development version of the
>OTP.

Correcting myself:  They do have an EPROM version.  Somehow I missed that
when looking at the orderable parts section.
Well, anyway, flash unit would be much nicer.  Oh well, guess I'll stick
with something more powerful for that.

--Brendan

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2003\10\30@201140 by Denny Esterline
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No, Believe it two years later when they publish the errata.

-Denny




> Actually they have some new 18F chips on the future products section
of
> the line card. They are supposedly able to support full speed
USB2.0.
> I'll believe it when I can buy it at Digikey.
>
> Josh

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2003\10\30@232842 by Wesley Moore

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While we're on the topic what are valid alternatives? Particularly ones
suited to impelementing the mass storage USB device class.

Wesley

On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 02:25:24PM -0800, Brendan Moran wrote:
> Well, anyway, flash unit would be much nicer.  Oh well, guess I'll stick
> with something more powerful for that.
>
> --Brendan

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2003\10\31@002447 by Ken Pergola

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Wesley Moore wrote:

> While we're on the topic what are valid alternatives? Particularly ones
> suited to implementing the mass storage USB device class.

Hi Wesley,

For starters, you might want to check out the company our resident PICLIST
member Andy Warren works at:
http://www.cypress.com


Also:
http://www.cygnal.com

I'm sure others will chime in with some more links/suggestions.

Good luck,

Ken Pergola

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2003\10\31@014139 by Adlam Frank

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Hi all

I am in the process of wanting to use USB in my projects. What I see and
read about Microchip USB implementation at this moment in time leads me
to look elsewhere.  It will be a full speed USB2.0 implementation.

Somebody used a 16-bit FLASH microcontroller in a real USB.2 application
lately?  Would like to hear which CPU and hardware/software tools you
have used.

Have done a web search, are aware of most 8/16 bit microcontrollers used
for USB applications.  Rather a problem of making the correct CPU and
tool selection.

Thanks in advance.

Frank

{Original Message removed}

2003\10\31@022409 by Brendan Moran

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>While we're on the topic what are valid alternatives? Particularly ones
>suited to impelementing the mass storage USB device class.

Well, there are several I've seen in my travels...

A list of places to try:
http://www.atmel.com
http://www.ti.com
http://www.philips.com
http://www.cypress.com
http://www.motorola.com
http://tinyurl.com/t45k (links a google search)

FDTI is *not* useful for mass storage.  They only have com port devices,
and unless you want to write the host side driver, they will only act as
com port emulation devices.

Note: All of the URL's I've listed turned up *some* kind of USB micro, but
whether they support high speed (USB2.0 only) or not, I don't know (wasn't
looking for that at the time).

--Brendan

P.S.: Some time I might put together a chart of the various options, but
not today.

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2003\10\31@043643 by William Chops Westfield

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On Thursday, Oct 30, 2003, at 22:28 US/Pacific, Adlam Frank wrote:

>   It will be a full speed USB2.0 implementation.

In the USB world, does "full speed" always mean ~12Mbps, even
for USB2.0?  Somewhere i got the impression that the higher speed
(~480Mbps) is called 'high speed', with "full speed" being at best very
ambiguous...

(Hmm.  http://www.everythingusb.com/usb2/faq.htm )

BillW

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2003\10\31@043644 by Alan B. Pearce

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>While we're on the topic what are valid alternatives? Particularly
>ones suited to impelementing the mass storage USB device class.

Someone already given you a link to Cypress, but I don't know what their
mass storage line is like. However I have recently seen adverts for TI
series USB devices that include one for ATA devices. This particular device
is still an advance announcement with no data sheet.

Another alternative might be to roll your own by looking at the VHDL cores
at opencores.org where they have both USB 1.1 and 2 cores available for
using in FPGA's.

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2003\10\31@111329 by Matt Pobursky

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According to the USB Developer's Website (usb.org), you are correct
Bill.

A lot of people throw around the "Full Speed USB2.0" and expect the
High Speed 480Mbps version but only get the 12Mbps "Full Speed".

I personally wish everyone would only use USB2.0 when adressing devices
that have complete USB2.0 capability. Must be a marketing department
thing...

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:34:57 -0800, William Chops Westfield wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2003\10\31@234143 by Wesley Moore

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Thanks for the great replies eveyone. The VHDL idea is one I hadn't
considered. I really should do some more work with FPGA's.

Wes

On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 09:36:11AM -0000, Alan B. Pearce wrote:
> Another alternative might be to roll your own by looking at the VHDL cores
> at opencores.org where they have both USB 1.1 and 2 cores available for
> using in FPGA's.

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'[OT]:M'chip's half-hearted USB'
2003\11\03@120643 by Andrew Warren
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Alan B. Pearce <PICLISTspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> Another alternative might be to roll your own by looking at the
> VHDL cores at opencores.org where they have both USB 1.1 and 2
> cores available for using in FPGA's.

   That's fine for the digital part of the interface, but you'll
   need an analog USB transceiver, too; you can't run USB through
   regular FPGA I/O pads.

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren -- .....aiwKILLspamspam.....cypress.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

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