Post by thread:[OT]:M'chip's half-hearted USB

Is it just me or is Microchip really half-hearted about their USB PICs? I mean they only have two, they don't have 18-series USB PICs, and they only have OTP USB PICs... Not even an EPROM development version of the OTP. And the PICs that do support USB are low-speed only. Did they do this simply to be able to say that their MCUs offered USB support, rather than actually putting some commitment into producing a useable USB product? --Brendan -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Brendan Moran wrote: > Is it just me or is Microchip really half-hearted about their USB > PICs? I > mean they only have two, they don't have 18-series USB PICs, and they > only > have OTP USB PICs... Not even an EPROM development version of the > OTP. And the PICs that do support USB are low-speed only. > > Did they do this simply to be able to say that their MCUs offered USB > support, rather than actually putting some commitment into producing a > useable USB product? I wonder if PICs are powerfull enough to act as an full supported USB device. Besides that, making an USB chip is one thing, writing drivers for the PC-OSs is another. If I read about the quality of MPLAB (never used it myself), I doubt if microchip is capable of writing drivers. Can they keep up with the current revolution USB-on-the-go ? I'm not an expert, but seeing the evolution of PICs in the last 10 years, it's not very impressive (OTP--> flash + some pheripherials). my 2 cents, Stef Mientki > > > --Brendan > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Actually they have some new 18F chips on the future products section of the line card. They are supposedly able to support full speed USB2.0. I'll believe it when I can buy it at Digikey. Josh -- A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Douglas Adams Brendan Moran wrote: > Is it just me or is Microchip really half-hearted about their USB PICs? I > mean they only have two, they don't have 18-series USB PICs, and they only > have OTP USB PICs... Not even an EPROM development version of the > OTP. And the PICs that do support USB are low-speed only. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

The 16C745/65 USB PICs are available in erasable windowed versions (JW package). These micros are designed to be used for making custom HID's (Human Interface Device). For this they work very well, Microchip provides good example code in a series of application notes. HID's don't require any PC side drivers and work on all USB equipped platforms. Hopefully they will soon release new USB PIC's that are more versatile. Paul > {Original Message removed}

Paul Hutchinson wrote: >The 16C745/65 USB PICs are available in erasable windowed versions (JW >package). > >These micros are designed to be used for making custom HID's (Human >Interface Device). For this they work very well, Microchip provides good >example code in a series of application notes. HID's don't require any PC >side drivers and work on all USB equipped platforms. > The HID interface is so simple, you can hardly call that USB ;-) Stef Mientki > >Hopefully they will soon release new USB PIC's that are more versatile. > >Paul > > > >>{Original Message removed}

IF they can run faster than 4Mhz -----Original Message----- From: pic microcontroller discussion list [spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of Josh Koffman Sent: 30 October 2003 21:27 To: .....PICLISTKILLspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [OT]:M'chip's half-hearted USB Actually they have some new 18F chips on the future products section of the line card. They are supposedly able to support full speed USB2.0. I'll believe it when I can buy it at Digikey. Josh -- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

>Not even an EPROM development version of the >OTP. Correcting myself: They do have an EPROM version. Somehow I missed that when looking at the orderable parts section. Well, anyway, flash unit would be much nicer. Oh well, guess I'll stick with something more powerful for that. --Brendan -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

No, Believe it two years later when they publish the errata. -Denny > Actually they have some new 18F chips on the future products section of > the line card. They are supposedly able to support full speed USB2.0. > I'll believe it when I can buy it at Digikey. > > Josh -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

While we're on the topic what are valid alternatives? Particularly ones suited to impelementing the mass storage USB device class. Wesley On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 02:25:24PM -0800, Brendan Moran wrote: > Well, anyway, flash unit would be much nicer. Oh well, guess I'll stick > with something more powerful for that. > > --Brendan -- Wesley Moore http://wmoore.freeshell.org/ RMIT - BEng (Comp Sys Eng)/BApp.Sc. (Comp Sci) 5th (And Final!) Year SDF Public Access UNIX System http://sdf.lonestar.org/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Wesley Moore wrote: > While we're on the topic what are valid alternatives? Particularly ones > suited to implementing the mass storage USB device class. Hi Wesley, For starters, you might want to check out the company our resident PICLIST member Andy Warren works at: http://www.cypress.com Also: http://www.cygnal.com I'm sure others will chime in with some more links/suggestions. Good luck, Ken Pergola -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Hi all I am in the process of wanting to use USB in my projects. What I see and read about Microchip USB implementation at this moment in time leads me to look elsewhere. It will be a full speed USB2.0 implementation. Somebody used a 16-bit FLASH microcontroller in a real USB.2 application lately? Would like to hear which CPU and hardware/software tools you have used. Have done a web search, are aware of most 8/16 bit microcontrollers used for USB applications. Rather a problem of making the correct CPU and tool selection. Thanks in advance. Frank {Original Message removed}

>While we're on the topic what are valid alternatives? Particularly ones >suited to impelementing the mass storage USB device class. Well, there are several I've seen in my travels... A list of places to try: http://www.atmel.com http://www.ti.com http://www.philips.com http://www.cypress.com http://www.motorola.com http://tinyurl.com/t45k (links a google search) FDTI is *not* useful for mass storage. They only have com port devices, and unless you want to write the host side driver, they will only act as com port emulation devices. Note: All of the URL's I've listed turned up *some* kind of USB micro, but whether they support high speed (USB2.0 only) or not, I don't know (wasn't looking for that at the time). --Brendan P.S.: Some time I might put together a chart of the various options, but not today. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On Thursday, Oct 30, 2003, at 22:28 US/Pacific, Adlam Frank wrote: > It will be a full speed USB2.0 implementation. In the USB world, does "full speed" always mean ~12Mbps, even for USB2.0? Somewhere i got the impression that the higher speed (~480Mbps) is called 'high speed', with "full speed" being at best very ambiguous... (Hmm. http://www.everythingusb.com/usb2/faq.htm ) BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

>While we're on the topic what are valid alternatives? Particularly >ones suited to impelementing the mass storage USB device class. Someone already given you a link to Cypress, but I don't know what their mass storage line is like. However I have recently seen adverts for TI series USB devices that include one for ATA devices. This particular device is still an advance announcement with no data sheet. Another alternative might be to roll your own by looking at the VHDL cores at opencores.org where they have both USB 1.1 and 2 cores available for using in FPGA's. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

According to the USB Developer's Website (usb.org), you are correct Bill. A lot of people throw around the "Full Speed USB2.0" and expect the High Speed 480Mbps version but only get the 12Mbps "Full Speed". I personally wish everyone would only use USB2.0 when adressing devices that have complete USB2.0 capability. Must be a marketing department thing... Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:34:57 -0800, William Chops Westfield wrote: {Quote hidden}> On Thursday, Oct 30, 2003, at 22:28 US/Pacific, Adlam Frank wrote: > > > It will be a full speed USB2.0 implementation. > > In the USB world, does "full speed" always mean ~12Mbps, even > for USB2.0? Somewhere i got the impression that the higher speed > (~480Mbps) is called 'high speed', with "full speed" being at best > very > ambiguous... > > (Hmm. http://www.everythingusb.com/usb2/faq.htm ) > > BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Thanks for the great replies eveyone. The VHDL idea is one I hadn't considered. I really should do some more work with FPGA's. Wes On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 09:36:11AM -0000, Alan B. Pearce wrote: > Another alternative might be to roll your own by looking at the VHDL cores > at opencores.org where they have both USB 1.1 and 2 cores available for > using in FPGA's. -- Wesley Moore http://wmoore.freeshell.org/ RMIT - BEng (Comp Sys Eng)/BApp.Sc. (Comp Sci) 5th (And Final!) Year SDF Public Access UNIX System http://sdf.lonestar.org/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Alan B. Pearce <PICLISTKILLspammitvma.mit.edu> wrote: > Another alternative might be to roll your own by looking at the > VHDL cores at opencores.org where they have both USB 1.1 and 2 > cores available for using in FPGA's. That's fine for the digital part of the interface, but you'll need an analog USB transceiver, too; you can't run USB through regular FPGA I/O pads. -Andy === Andrew Warren -- .....aiwKILLspam.....cypress.com === Principal Design Engineer === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation === === Opinions expressed above do not === necessarily represent those of === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads