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'[OT]:Helping Profs. help students'
2001\02\27@211625 by James Michael Newton

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How about if we ammend the PICList FAQ to add a section for professors... We could ask them to post using one of the existig topic tags but with a specific, additional bit of text in the subject line that consultants who want to avoid student "clients" could setup thier email clients to filter for.

Perhaps "[OT]: [HOMEWORK]". We could add a mailto link like
spam_OUTpiclistTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu?subject=%5BOT%5D%3A%20%5BHOMEWORK%5D> to make it easy.

Does it seem like that would help?

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2001\02\27@213716 by Sean H. Breheny

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James,

I haven't been following this thread very closely, what constitutes
"homework" posts? For example, I sometimes ask a question which is related
to a class assignment, but I never ask anyone to do a part of the
assignment for me. In addition, I feel that these questions are often the
kind of things that are fairly relevant for everyone (for example, my
recent vehicle speed determination thread).

Sean

At 09:16 PM 2/27/01 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\02\27@232517 by Dan Michaels

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James Newton wrote:

>
>How about if we ammend the PICList FAQ to add a section for professors...
We could ask them to post using one of the existig topic tags but with a
specific, additional bit of text in the subject line that consultants who
want to avoid student "clients" could setup thier email clients to filter for.


Have any "professors" actually requested this, James?

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2001\02\28@004656 by James Newton

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The issue is that some consultants have actually been hired to do homework
for students without knowing that they were doing so.

No one is objecting to students asking questions or receiving assistance in
understanding how to complete their assignments.

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
EraseMEjamesnewtonspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTpiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

2001\02\28@021007 by James Newton

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Its more that consultants have asked how they can avoid doing students
homework for them in the guise of a paid development project.

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
jamesnewtonspamspam_OUTpiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com


{Original Message removed}

2001\02\28@034448 by Chris Carr

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> The issue is that some consultants have actually been hired to do homework
> for students without knowing that they were doing so.

Been there, got caught like that, finished the project, collected the money.
Then sent a copy of all paperwork to the College. Not strictly ethical
behaviour, but then neither was the client's and there was no
confidentiallity agreement.

>
> No one is objecting to students asking questions or receiving assistance
in
> understanding how to complete their assignments.
>
Agreed, but why do they hide behind anonymous email accounts such as Hotmail
? Are they afraid that if we see .edu we are going to ignore them?

I also observe that a lot of bandwidth is lost in inappropriate replies
because responders are unaware of the location and budget of the person
asking the question and misunderstand the project status i.e. One-Off
learning exercise as opposed to a design destined for production.

Why is location and budget important? Well not everyone on this list lives
in a country where all components are readily available and importation is
not a viable option due to shipping costs, customs duty etc even if they
have access to foreign exchange.

Climbing off soapbox and lowering head back down below the parapet.

Regards
Chris Carr

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2001\02\28@045243 by Alan B. Pearce

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>I also observe that a lot of bandwidth is lost in inappropriate replies
>because responders are unaware of the location and budget of the person
>asking the question and misunderstand the project status i.e. One-Off
>learning exercise as opposed to a design destined for production.

Perhaps this is a good thing as it will make the enquirer realise there is "more
than one way to skin a cat" when it comes to problem solving, and that what
their tutor is looking for is a viable solution.

I suspect one of the methods used to determine if a student has done the
research is some form of resume within an introduction or appendix on the
submitted project, to show what solutions have been investigated, and why the
selected one was used.

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2001\02\28@084915 by Thomas McGahee

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Sean,
As a teacher of electronics, I can assure you that the
type of questions you have asked on the PIC list are
EXACTLY the kind of questions we WANT our students to
be asking!!

What we DON'T want is for our students to be asking
someone to DO THEIR WORK FOR THEM. There is absolutely
no education going on when that is done.

Secondly, it is a form of plagiarism to hand in a
project and pretend it is your own work when in fact
it is not. Even if you did "pay" for it.

There is a BIG difference between getting help and
having someone else do it all for you. All of us need
help from time to time. It is a sign of intelligence
to know when you need help. It is a sign of intelligence
to be able to ask a question clearly. It is a sign of
intelligence to be able to understand which "answers" we
get are good answers, and which are not. It is a sign
of intelligence to know WHO to ask, and who NOT to ask
for help on a specific topic. It is a sign of intelligence
to be able to apply the knowledge gained from asking
questions to the problem at hand, and to also see how
it applies to OTHER problems, too. And it is just a
sign of good manners and basic courtesy to say "thank-you"
to those who have helped us, and to acknowledge their
contributions to our own efforts.

Fr. Thomas McGahee


{Original Message removed}

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