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'[OT]:Glass moulding'
2001\12\02@052248 by Jinx

face picon face
As part of a PIC project (honestly !!) I need to have some
components made of glass. I've contacted a company who
could cut glass with high pressure water/garnet but they
can't guarantee the work or a low spoilage figure. They
suggested polycarbonate, and I suggested right back at 'em
that maybe they could cut a mould out of steel plate and I
fill it with molten glass. If that fails they will have the cutting
file for the metal and I'd get them to do it in polycarbonate.

Has anyone in this collective brain of ours any experience,
suggestions, tips etc for moulding glass ? Getting a smooth
surface on the top (it's a thin disk) could be tricky. I guess I'll
have to slide some sort of metal plate on the liquid surface

TIA

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2001\12\02@091902 by John Ferrell

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Perhaps a lens maker would be a better service proverb?

John Ferrell
6241 Phillippi Rd
Julian NC 27283
Phone: (336)685-9606
Dixie Competition Products
NSRCA 479 AMA 4190  W8CCW
"My Competition is Not My Enemy"



{Original Message removed}

2001\12\02@093241 by John Ferrell

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"Perhaps a lens maker would be a better service proverb?"

Without the help of a spellchecker that would be:
Perhaps a lens maker would be a better service provider.



John Ferrell
6241 Phillippi Rd
Julian NC 27283
Phone: (336)685-9606
Dixie Competition Products
NSRCA 479 AMA 4190  W8CCW
"My Competition is Not My Enemy"



{Original Message removed}

2001\12\02@101414 by Roman Black

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face
Jinx wrote:
>
> As part of a PIC project (honestly !!) I need to have some
> components made of glass. I've contacted a company who
> could cut glass with high pressure water/garnet but they
> can't guarantee the work or a low spoilage figure. They
> suggested polycarbonate, and I suggested right back at 'em
> that maybe they could cut a mould out of steel plate and I
> fill it with molten glass. If that fails they will have the cutting
> file for the metal and I'd get them to do it in polycarbonate.
>
> Has anyone in this collective brain of ours any experience,
> suggestions, tips etc for moulding glass ? Getting a smooth
> surface on the top (it's a thin disk) could be tricky. I guess I'll
> have to slide some sort of metal plate on the liquid surface


Hi Jinx! :o)
How detailed is it? How will shinkage when cooling
affect the molding of the glass? How many details
that will stick the mold? Mold release agents for
molten glass temperatures?

One system which is very classy is to look to the
new epoxy aggregate products, you can add glass
dust to your epoxy or bronze or other metal dusts
and it comes out a lot like glass or metal and
feels modern and exotic.

I got to play with some clear chess pieces that
were heavy and cold like glass, but also plasticy
to the touch. Probably about 50/50. I read the
bronze stuff is 40% epoxy and 60% bronze dust and
feels a lot like metal.

Some technology like that will look exotic and give
you all the advantages of cost and ease of
manufacture. So whatcha makin?? :o)
-Roman

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2001\12\02@113926 by mike

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On the subject of doing clever things with glass - does anyone know
how they make those ornaments which have '3d engravings' inside a
block of glass? They appear to be made out of sets of 'dots', so I'm guessing
something like  focussed pulsed lasers or ultrasonics to create local
micro-cracking.

stOn Mon, 3 Dec 2001 02:00:03 +1100, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\12\02@143933 by Jinx

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> Hi Jinx! :o)

Hi dude, we must catch up soon, personal mails have
been a long way down the list lately unfortunately. That
RS485 project we talked about has taken off and been
a big time-sucker

> How detailed is it? How will shinkage when cooling
> affect the molding of the glass? How many details
> that will stick the mold? Mold release agents for
> molten glass temperatures?

Being totally ignorant of what glass moulding is all about,
I'm not at all confident that one could master it in a day or
two - so is it worth the effort. I've done a lot of polyester
encapsulation and shrinkage can be a complete bugger - not
expecting an easy ride with glass either. And it's brittle and
sharp too - ouch (whenever I see broken glass I think of a
flatmate who had a pallette of glass plate fall on him off a
loading bay - slit from top to bottom, yeow, spent months in
bandages. Got a packet in compo but.....)

The pieces are reasonably complex (part of an optic system)
and I'll have to look into whether the new glass-like polycarbonates
are acceptable in looks and optical properties

> One system which is very classy is to look to the
> new epoxy aggregate products, you can add glass
> dust to your epoxy or bronze or other metal dusts
> and it comes out a lot like glass or metal and
> feels modern and exotic.

Hmm, that's a thought. Resins would be easier to polish too. I
just remembered there's a place halfway between Steve Baldwin
and I called Cosmo Glass that has an "arty" service. Might pop
in there for some advice

> I got to play with some clear chess pieces that
> were heavy and cold like glass, but also plasticy
> to the touch. Probably about 50/50. I read the
> bronze stuff is 40% epoxy and 60% bronze dust and
> feels a lot like metal.

There is so much that could be done in the art world with a
few well-placed PICs. A giant chess board with robotic auto-
playing pieces ?

> Some technology like that will look exotic and give
> you all the advantages of cost and ease of
> manufacture. So whatcha makin?? :o)
> -Roman

A variation on this

http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/joecolquitt/ticktock.html

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2001\12\02@144155 by Jinx

face picon face
> On the subject of doing clever things with glass - does anyone
> know how they make those ornaments which have '3d engravings'
> inside a block of glass? They appear to be made out of sets of
> 'dots', so I'm guessing something like  focussed pulsed lasers
> or ultrasonics to create local micro-cracking.

Probably some surgeon fed up doing kidney stones and
couldn't be bothered trying to get his handicap down anymore

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2001\12\02@144529 by Jinx

face picon face
> "Perhaps a lens maker would be a better service proverb?"
>
> Without the help of a spellchecker that would be:
> Perhaps a lens maker would be a better service provider.

Good moaning. A lons miker ploberby wood charge an irm
and a lug. I looged around for newt lenses for mi sunnies
and god a horrud shok at the costa. Like ducks, they can
stik there bills up there orses

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2001\12\02@184332 by Gennette, Bruce

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Call in to your local university Chemistry / Physics departments and ask
them who does their glass blowing / glassware repairs.

On a double ended component they normally make the two parts separately and
then join them at a point where the slight unevenness of the seam is out of
sight.

Bye.

       {Original Message removed}

2001\12\03@001629 by Pete S

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If parts can be formed from plate (ie deforming normal sheet of glass)
apparently just heating up over a metal mould will do it.  Apparently
smooth surface is retained providing mould is relatively smooth.      Glass
doesn't actually liquefy - just 'slumps' over mould.  That's how they do
curved glass stuff anyway I believe.

Hope this helps.

Pete S.

At 11:21 PM 2/12/01 +1300, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\12\03@181823 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
Jinx,

I do some glass blowing myself. Pressed (molded) glass is never ok without
polishing even for the simplest optical tasks. If your item is decorative
then you may get away with it. A clock face is not (did I guess ? ;-).

The smoothest surfaces are obtained by pouring molten glass onto a liquid
metal bath. This is the way most window glass is made. You could in theory
have the molten metal bath spin to create a meniscus and pour into that
but I suspect that you do not have a free room in your glass factory to
accomodate the equipment ;-).

Don't even think about steel molds. Precise lass molds are made of
graphite or other refractory and low thermal conductivity material
usually. Steel molds are used to make beer bottles and the like and they
have special linings and are pre-heated and otherwise specially handled.

For a moderate diameter item (up to about 30 cm - 1ft diameter and <3kg) a
local *skilled* glassblower can help you out. A skilled glassblower can
blow a flask composed of two 'watch glasses' in a go, one with a blowhole,
and one without. You or him can later separate them at the rim, using his
methods or a grinding stone. We once had lamp shades made like this
(without separating the halves).

Make a nice drawing and find a local glassblower artisan shop imho.

hope this helps,

Peter

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2001\12\03@181829 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
> On the subject of doing clever things with glass - does anyone know
> how they make those ornaments which have '3d engravings' inside a
> block of glass?=20

Laser focused by a machine in the block. Electron beam radiation has the
same effect on some plastics. You can obtain the same effect using
infrared focused as above (f.ex. from a large halogen lamp) but that will
be very slow unless the plastic is doped with something that abosrbs IR
well.

Peter

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2001\12\03@181835 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
> I looged around for newt lenses for mi sunnies
> and god a horrud shok at the costa

Just wait until you see the glassblower's bill ...

Peter

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2001\12\03@205751 by Pete S

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Hi Jinx

Virtually 0% shrink polyester high volume casting resins are available at
only a slight premium - but don't know about clarity.  I bought some stuff
recently to cast a large flat reference surface - perfect for my purpose
but not exactly water clear.  Would suspect that stuff suitable for your
purpose exists though.  Or the old method used for those encapsulated
spiders, etc. could be used - pour into mould in small enough amounts so
that shrinkage and heating are minimal and build up in layers.  End result
is very good, and cheap.

Also epoxies are generally very low shrinkage.  Formulations are used to
repair windshields, etc, so suspect that optical properties are also
good.  The killer here is cost though.  The windshield repair stuff  is
*very* expensive IIRC.

Pete S.

At 10:40 AM 3/12/01 +1100, you wrote:
>Call in to your local university Chemistry / Physics departments and ask
>them who does their glass blowing / glassware repairs.
>
>On a double ended component they normally make the two parts separately and
>then join them at a point where the slight unevenness of the seam is out of
>sight.
>
>Bye.
>
>         {Original Message removed}

2001\12\03@214013 by Jinx

face picon face
> > I looged around for newt lenses for mi sunnies
> > and god a horrud shok at the costa
>
> Just wait until you see the glassblower's bill ...
>
> Peter

Can you quack Peter ? ;-))

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2001\12\03@222142 by Jinx

face picon face
> Virtually 0% shrink polyester high volume casting resins are
> available at only a slight premium - but don't know about clarity.

I use water-clear resin all the time for casting coasters. Reducing
the peroxide catalyst level does indeed reduce shrinkage. No
good being ina hurry and putting 2 or 3 or 5% peroxide in. Likely
to crack with the reaction heat

> I bought some stuff recently to cast a large flat reference surface -
> perfect for my purpose but not exactly water clear.  Would suspect
> that stuff suitable for your purpose exists though.  Or the old method
> used for those encapsulated spiders, etc. could be used - pour
> into mould in small enough amounts so that shrinkage and heating
> are minimal and build up in layers.  End result is very good, and cheap

Some parts on the original prototype are cast in resin and polished.
Looks OK, but p/e does tend to be brittle, much less than polycarb,
probably about the same as glass but it doesn't shatter. I'd like to
cast the pieces but they must have a flat surface both sides, which means
probably a glass mold, or at least glass sheet top and bottom. Possible
I could use a metal mold and cast resin instead of glass. The surface
exposed to the air as the resin cures is affected by atmospheric oxygen.
To get a hard smooth surface it needs to be covered and airtight. Too
much mucking about. And it smells and is sticky

A couple of pieces have severe re-entrant angles and I think I'll have
to cast those

> Also epoxies are generally very low shrinkage.  Formulations are
> used to repair windshields, etc, so suspect that optical properties are
> also good.  The killer here is cost though.  The windshield repair stuff
is
> *very* expensive IIRC.

Very true

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2001\12\03@222204 by Jinx

face picon face
> I do some glass blowing myself. Pressed (molded) glass is never ok
> without polishing even for the simplest optical tasks. If your item is
> decorative then you may get away with it. A clock face is not (did I
> guess ? ;-).

Close. I went down to the glass shop yesterday. They get all sorts
of odd enquiries, as the arts community in Titirangi is nearby. And
they're a fussy snooty daydreamy lot up there, or "The Raffia" as
they're known

Anyway, they told me pretty much the same. Even if you keep the
glass molten and the mould hot, it is hard to get a perfect surface all
over without some work

> The smoothest surfaces are obtained by pouring molten glass onto
> a liquid metal bath. This is the way most window glass is made.
> You could in theory have the molten metal bath spin to create a
> meniscus and pour into that but I suspect that you do not have a
> free room in your glass factory to accomodate the equipment ;-).

And also it doesn't address the shapes I want unfortunately
>
> Make a nice drawing and find a local glassblower artisan shop imho.

He'll love all the sticky-out bits. Think it's time I paid a visit to the
laser cutter and get them to do it in polycarbonate. When it comes
to glass, I'll stick to lead-lighting

Thanks for the background info

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2001\12\04@153513 by Peter L. Peres

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> Can you quack Peter ? ;-))

No, but I can write bills ;-)

Peter

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2001\12\04@190537 by Jinx

face picon face
> > Can you quack Peter ? ;-))
>
> No, but I can write bills ;-)
>
> Peter

The next riposte will be then, where do ducks put theirs ? ;-)

And I think I'll quit while we're still on friendly terms ;-))

Without a word of a lie, I was in the clock shop this morning
when a young fresh-face guy came in holding a petite gold
watch. He strolled up to the counter and with a completely
straight face said "My wife needs a new face and a strap"

Stifled guffaws from out the back and mutterings of "Jeez,
why'd he marry her", "Bring the ho in and we'll do what we can"
"Sorry we only fix clocks, try the doc's place up the road".

But it's a be-nice-to-punters day

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2001\12\04@191943 by David VanHorn

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At 01:02 PM 12/5/01 +1300, Jinx wrote:
> > > Can you quack Peter ? ;-))
> >
> > No, but I can write bills ;-)
> >
> > Peter
>
>The next riposte will be then, where do ducks put theirs ? ;-)

Did you think duck-billed platypuses just evolved?? :)

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2001\12\04@200831 by Brian Kraut

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One of the machine shop magazines I get has an add every month from a
company that specializes in maching glass components.  I think it was
American Machinist magazine.  I am leaving for San Diego for five days
soon, but if you want it send me an email and I will look it up when I
get back.

Jinx wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\12\04@232427 by Jinx

face picon face
> >The next riposte will be then, where do ducks put theirs ? ;-)
>
> Did you think duck-billed platypuses just evolved?? :)

Um no. I think they've been around for some time now

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2001\12\04@232505 by Jinx

face picon face
> One of the machine shop magazines I get has an add every month
> from a company that specializes in maching glass components.  I
> think it was American Machinist magazine.  I am leaving for San
> Diego for five days soon, but if you want it send me an email and
> I will look it up when I get back.

That's OK. Don't worry about it. I'm way down in NZ. I might ask the
laser cutters if they can work with toughened glass (if I persist with
the glass idea that is)

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2001\12\05@072732 by Russell McMahon

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> > One of the machine shop magazines I get has an add every month
> > from a company that specializes in maching glass components.  I
> > think it was American Machinist magazine.  I am leaving for San
> > Diego for five days soon, but if you want it send me an email and
> > I will look it up when I get back.
>
> That's OK. Don't worry about it. I'm way down in NZ. I might ask the
> laser cutters if they can work with toughened glass (if I persist with
> the glass idea that is)


Laser cutting unlikely to work well with glass BUT their* garnet filled
waterjet cutters would cut glass.
Good for about 300mm in steel AFAIR !!!
(Laser Stream, AK NZ)



       Russell McMahon

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2001\12\05@074727 by Jinx

face picon face
> > That's OK. Don't worry about it. I'm way down in NZ. I might ask the
> > laser cutters if they can work with toughened glass (if I persist with
> > the glass idea that is)
>
>
> Laser cutting unlikely to work well with glass BUT their* garnet filled
> waterjet cutters would cut glass.
> Good for about 300mm in steel AFAIR !!!
> (Laser Stream, AK NZ)

I mentioned in the original post that LaserStream would use water
and garnet but couldn't guarantee the quality of the end product as
the water is such high pressure that standard glass would chip and
crack. I was just lazy typing "laser cutters". Thank you for making
me type a whole paragraph to explain, RM ;-)

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