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'[OT]: taxes'
2002\08\23@180953 by Jinx

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> >I thought higher taxes hurt the economy!  Sounds like a viscous cycle
> to me.;)
>
> The beauty of VAT (or GST) type taxes is that they don't really hurt
> exports, as they are only applied on DOMESTIC CONSUMPTION.
> Businesses pay them, then claim BACK the amounts paid as input
> tax credits

GST (Goods and Services Taxes / Grab Snatch Take) is 12.5% in
NZ. I'm registered for it, even though by most reckonings I'm a very
small business (well hardly even a business, I'm just a self-employed
developer), and the rebate is a welcome bit of pocket money in
addition to buying at trade prices. It also means I can pass on that
lower price by excluding GST from the bill, which is a good will
gesture towards customers

But electronics aside, I think most people would feel a lot better
if GST was not applied to basics like bread, milk, kids clothes

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2002\08\23@181552 by Jim

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Where does all this blasted money go?

I still remember a sales tax of only 4 and 1/2 percent!

Now it's at 8 1/4 percent (then there's the income tax,
Social Security, ad nauseum)

RF Jim


  "Our ability to manufacture fraud has exceeded
   our  ability to detect it."

   - Al Pacino as Viktor Taransky in the movie 'Simone'



{Original Message removed}

2002\08\23@182846 by Welch, Ken

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wait until TX has a state income tax and a sales tax on food, rent,
prescription drugs and medical services

Ken
Honolulu

{Original Message removed}

2002\08\23@183508 by Rick C.

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Here in Virginia, 4-1/2%.........still!
Rick

Jim wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2002\08\23@183911 by Pic Dude

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Isn't Oregon still at 0% sales tax?
-Neil.


{Quote hidden}

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2002\08\23@184528 by Brent Brown

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> GST (Goods and Services Taxes / Grab Snatch Take) is 12.5% in
> NZ. I'm registered for it, even though by most reckonings I'm a very
> small business (well hardly even a business, I'm just a self-employed
> developer), and the rebate is a welcome bit of pocket money in
> addition to buying at trade prices. It also means I can pass on that
> lower price by excluding GST from the bill, which is a good will
> gesture towards customers

Hey Jinx,

Is it OK to not add the GST? I'm all for the good will stuff but not
sure how the IRD might view this. The GST we add on to an account
ends up in their hands, right?, so it's not going into our pockets
anyway.

I'm mostly a developer too, but every now and then I buy stuff
through my trade accounts for "mates". I'm happy to do this and I
like to make sure they get a good deal. Even with commercial
customers I like them to get things cheaper through me than
retailers. As such usually don't add any margin but have had quite a
few cases now where I have to return the product for credit or
replacement and I end up footing the courier costs and incurring a
lot of extra time. Just because they are mates doesn't mean they
forfeit their customer rights, and I must be a responsible retailer.

I'm trying to make a policy for myself now, eg under $30 add 30%, $30
- $100 add 20%, $100 - $500 add 10%, over that add $50. Just an idea.
I'm not aiming to make big gobs of money from onselling but need to
cover my costs to keep in the development business.
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2002\08\23@193110 by Jinx

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> Is it OK to not add the GST? I'm all for the good will stuff
> but not sure how the IRD might view this. The GST we add
> on to an account ends up in their hands, right?, so it's not
> going into our pockets

I think it's OK. You're average punter isn't GST registered so
to them it's a pretty good discount. To be totally honest with
IRD I should not claim the GST. IOW, I pay the GST not the
customer, which is how I've seen others do it. But I take your
point - do they have Machiavellian view (ie doesn't matter how
we get the money as long as we get it) or do they have a "no
fudge factor" policy ? Maybe I'll ask (anonymously of course)
on Monday

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2002\08\23@202619 by Brent Brown

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> > Is it OK to not add the GST? I'm all for the good will stuff
> > but not sure how the IRD might view this. The GST we add
> > on to an account ends up in their hands, right?, so it's not
> > going into our pockets
>
> I think it's OK. You're average punter isn't GST registered so
> to them it's a pretty good discount. To be totally honest with
> IRD I should not claim the GST. IOW, I pay the GST not the
> customer, which is how I've seen others do it. But I take your
> point - do they have Machiavellian view (ie doesn't matter how
> we get the money as long as we get it) or do they have a "no
> fudge factor" policy ? Maybe I'll ask (anonymously of course)
> on Monday

Might be a good idea to ask. I'm no tax expert.

Interestingly I don't pay GST on imported declared software as there
is a kind of loophole that allows for "intellectual property" to be
zero rated. As long as the customs invoice separates the value of the
CD from the value of the contents.

--
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16 English Street, Hamilton, New Zealand
Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069
Mobile/txt: 025 334 069
eMail:  RemoveMEbrent.brownspamTakeThisOuTclear.net.nz

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2002\08\24@070451 by dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,

here in Hungary the state cuts proud 25%.

Regards,
Imre

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On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, Rick C. wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

2002\08\24@094510 by Russell McMahon

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*******  OFFLIST *************
*******  OFFLIST *************
*******  OFFLIST *************
*******  OFFLIST *************



> GST (Goods and Services Taxes / Grab Snatch Take) is 12.5% in
> NZ. I'm registered for it, even though by most reckonings I'm a very
> small business (well hardly even a business, I'm just a self-employed
> developer), and the rebate is a welcome bit of pocket money in
> addition to buying at trade prices. It also means I can pass on that
> lower price by excluding GST from the bill, which is a good will
> gesture towards customers

No no no no ... !
(!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

At least, if I understand you correctly that is.
I've made this offlist for hopefully obvious reasons.

I'll explain GST situation briefly - if you understand this that's good. If
not, you may wish to adapt your trade practices if required. Sorry if I'm
telling you how to suck eggs.

Please do not think I am wrong here :-)
_________________

If you are GST registered

If you buy goods or pay for services (G&S) you may claim the GST content
back for the government via the IRD.

If these G&S are expended during the course of pursuing your business then
the GST is essentially yours to keep (as it was originally paid earlier down
the line for G&S which were intended for retail consumption and you are not
a retail consumer)(It is effectively assumed that this consumption on your
part goes towards making you a more effective creator of GSTable income.)

If you export goods then you can keep the GST content as above.

If you sell goods to ANYONE then you MUST add GST at 12.5% to the sale
price. This GST BELONGS to the government. You MUST return it to the IRD. If
you do not do so you are liable for it. If you do not charge GST you are
STILL liable for it. If you do not pay the IRD the GST they will, in due
course come and kill you or some reasonable facsimile thereof.

There is NO WAY to avoid liability for GST on goods that you sell if you are
a GST registered person.

Suggesting that you do not charge GST on a public list (or perhaps seeming
to suggest this) is inviting unwelcome interest.

If you want to tell the customers that you are not adding GST and then
absorb the GST cost yourself and pay the IRD out of your pocket then you are
we4lcome to do so. As long as the GST is REALLY paid the IRD do not care who
does the paying. This may have been what you meant. It was, wasn't it ? :-)




       Russell

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2002\08\24@114300 by Roman Black

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Russell McMahon wrote:
>
> *******  OFFLIST *************
> *******  OFFLIST *************
> *******  OFFLIST *************

Ummm, maybe not as "offlist" as you anticipated? ;o)



> If you export goods then you can keep the GST content as above.
>
> If you sell goods to ANYONE then you MUST add GST at 12.5% to the sale
> price.


Is this how it works in NZ?? You said ANYONE, so
even US customers etc have to pay you NZ GST when
they buy from you?? I can't imagine that being good
for the NZ economy.
-Roman

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2002\08\24@141853 by Peter L. Peres

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On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Roman Black wrote:

>Is this how it works in NZ?? You said ANYONE, so
>even US customers etc have to pay you NZ GST when
>they buy from you?? I can't imagine that being good
>for the NZ economy.

There is usually an arrangelent for the remote customer to recover GST.
Never heard of anyone using it anywhere.

Peter

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2002\08\24@142405 by Eoin Ross

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Actually - if something is being shipped directly overseas you do not have to charge GST.
>>> RemoveMEfastvidTakeThisOuTspamspamEZY.NET.AU 08/24/02 10:46AM >>>
Russell McMahon wrote:

> If you export goods then you can keep the GST content as above.
> If you sell goods to ANYONE then you MUST add GST at 12.5% to the sale
> price.

Is this how it works in NZ?? You said ANYONE, so
even US customers etc have to pay you NZ GST when
they buy from you?? I can't imagine that being good
for the NZ economy.
-Roman

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2002\08\24@161421 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 01:31 PM 8/24/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Actually - if something is being shipped directly overseas you do not have to
>charge GST.

Or to be specific (and am not a Kiwi, but..) you do charge GST but at a rate
of 0% (zero-rated). The distinction can be important.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
RemoveMEspeffKILLspamspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
9/11 United we Stand

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2002\08\24@175952 by Brent Brown

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On 24 Aug 2002 at 19:32, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Roman Black wrote:
>
> >Is this how it works in NZ?? You said ANYONE, so
> >even US customers etc have to pay you NZ GST when
> >they buy from you?? I can't imagine that being good
> >for the NZ economy.
>
> There is usually an arrangelent for the remote customer to recover
> GST. Never heard of anyone using it anywhere.

I beleive that if you buy stuff when visiting Singapaore you can
claim the GST back at the airport when you leave.

When I buy electronic components from Aussie I don't pay Aussie GST.
As an importer though I must pay the appropriate NZ GST and sales
taxes on these items, unless the GST amounts to less than $50 then
the IRD does not bother to collect it.

When I sell stuff to Aussie I am not entitled to add GST to the
total.

For NZ'ers the GST buck starts and stops here in NZ. It gets passed
on and increased each time the goods change hands till the end
customer pays for it.

It seems to work OK, and being across the board it's not too hard to
follow. Here's a cool trick though: sign up to buy a farm (as a
business venture) and you can get the GST back before you've paid it!

--
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2002\08\24@180034 by Russell McMahon

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> Russell McMahon wrote:
> >
> > *******  OFFLIST *************
> > *******  OFFLIST *************
> > *******  OFFLIST *************
>
> Ummm, maybe not as "offlist" as you anticipated? ;o)

So someone else has pointed out offlist :-(.
As I said to him, must be time to get my brain retuned in this area (at
least)
and
At least now 2000 more people have a better understanding of my
understanding of NZ tax laws :-)


       Russell

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2002\08\24@180044 by Jinx

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> > fudge factor" policy ? Maybe I'll ask (anonymously of course)
> > on Monday
>
> Might be a good idea to ask. I'm no tax expert.
>

Hmmm, as of yesterday you wonder who is

"Tax department disputes survey"

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news.asp

What the story doesn't say is that it's actually IRD's own survey

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2002\08\24@180054 by Russell McMahon

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> If you export goods then you can keep the GST content as above.
> If you sell goods to ANYONE then you MUST add GST at 12.5% to the sale
> price.

Is this how it works in NZ?? You said ANYONE, so
even US customers etc have to pay you NZ GST when
they buy from you?? I can't imagine that being good
for the NZ economy.


Must have been even tireder than I thought.
I got that bit wrong - exported goods are GST free - which is what I meant
about keeping the GST on goods you buy for export. In the case of G&S sold
locally you effectively ignore the GST content on purchase and pay extra GST
on the difference between purchase and sale. On exported goods there is no
GST on sale so you get a refund on the GST in the purchase price.

       RM

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2002\08\24@180103 by Jinx

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> If you want to tell the customers that you are not adding GST and then
> absorb the GST cost yourself and pay the IRD out of your pocket then
> you are we4lcome to do so. As long as the GST is REALLY paid the
> IRD do not care who does the paying. This may have been what you
> meant. It was, wasn't it ? :-)

Yes. I did say I wonder whether IRD care who pays as long as someone
does, and that I absorb the GST on the customer's behalf

The discount that not passing on GST represents can vary of course,
but hopefully the gesture pretty much stays the same in the customer's
eyes. For a job that has a large component count (= real dollar cost to
put together) and perhaps not much labour you might think a little harder

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2002\08\25@002421 by Russell McMahon

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> When I buy electronic components from Aussie I don't pay Aussie GST.
> As an importer though I must pay the appropriate NZ GST and sales
> taxes on these items, unless the GST amounts to less than $50 then
> the IRD does not bother to collect it.

Even this is revenue neutral IF the buyer is GST registered and honest. If
they are liable to charge GST the government gets the same amount either
way.


       RM

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2002\08\25@041353 by Also-Antal Csaba

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"dr. Imre Bartfai" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> here in Hungary the state cuts proud 25%.
>

Yes, + we have other taxes , so if you get 100HUF you can use from that
~10..15HUF.

udv
Csaba

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